Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Zantera]

The Arthas situation is a bit of a 'damned if you do damned if you don't' situation. I actually think they deserve some credit for not trying to milk Arthas (arguably the face of the franchise) in an expansion where it would have been so easy to put Arthas at the center of it all, similar to Illidan's role in Legion. Had they used Arthas you would have gotten complaints about tarnishing the character (i think even no matter what they did with him) and by not using him some people will complain that he wasn't used.

I'm just thinking in my head how other big properties like Star Wars will throw a Luke Skywalker cameo into a really boring season of Boba Fett because it's $$$ and the fans go crazy and I'm both surprised and kinda happy that in this case, Arthas wasn't pulled out in some desperation. I wouldn't be surprised down the line if he does come back in some shape or form though.

[pacotaco]

I'm actually more intrigued by the starting part. Is it just Anduin overcoming domination with his own power and having hallucinations during it. Or are those some parts of Varian's and Varrok's souls? In the blade?

It's a bit ambiguous, but I think they're not real: Varian's soul should be obliterated by fel & Varok's one should be in the Maw (probably used to make the trinket that Sylvanas has in SoD: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Warrior%27s_Soul)

[Ersula]

I get your point but the heavy focus on Sylvanas in the video was objectively too much. It was about Anduin. And all the time we help Jaina to free Anduin. Why the sylv focus again? It's not whining when people talk about the wrong focus. It doesn't mean WoW is dead or everything is always bad or next xpac story will be bad or whatever

Sylvanas & Anduin had equal screentime in the cinematic. Anduing going "Arthas?" was even a stretch because I'm like, if Anduin saw a picture of Arthas, would he even know who he was? This moment right here is the only way Anduin & Arthas' stories intersect. They're totally unrelated characters.

Of course Sylvanas gets the Arthas closure scene. Why wouldn't she? It's like watching the end of Heart of the Swarm & saying "this Mengsk death scene has entirely too much Kerrigan"

It's a short end to their biggest character arcs, but what else is new for Blizzard.

[Kiivar86]

I saw this mentioned on reddit a little bit ago but there's word the Sylvanas novel's been delayed, though I can't seem to verify it myself. Amazon still shows March 29th.

[Ersula]

It's a bit ambiguous, but I think they're not real: Varian's soul should be obliterated by fel & Varok's one should be in the Maw (probably used to make the trinket that Sylvanas has in SoD: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Warrior%27s_Soul)

They have been using magical realism a lot lately (kind of a foolhardy thing to do in a high fantasy setting) but it would align with Orc shamanistic spirituality: Thrall states his father's spirit is with him when he wields his axe. So I think we're meant to think of it as its actually happening. We have no concrete explanation that killing someone with fel would also destroy their soul, especially when we see how anima works it's more like the fel magic consumes some of the anima, while the rest of the soul escapes. And the Old Soul trinket is suggested to be Varok, but that's not clear either, or if the soul is literal, when it could be only figurative. The same way "the Pride of Stormwind" isn't literal. Or that's its just a piece of his soul.

The idea that Varok, Durotan & Varian's soul resides with noble weapons is a more fitting thing for the Warcraft setting.

[ZyntosAran]

I saw this mentioned on reddit a little bit ago but there's word the Sylvanas novel's been delayed, though I can't seem to verify it myself. Amazon still shows March 29th.

Cant say I am surprised, there is a huge Paper Shortage going on right now (thats also why the rammstein album being due is delayed to a unknown date, due to them not being able to print booklets).

[Khaza-R]

The Arthas situation is a bit of a 'damned if you do damned if you don't' situation. I actually think they deserve some credit for not trying to milk Arthas (arguably the face of the franchise) in an expansion where it would have been so easy to put Arthas at the center of it all, similar to Illidan's role in Legion. Had they used Arthas you would have gotten complaints about tarnishing the character (i think even no matter what they did with him) and by not using him some people will complain that he wasn't used.

I guess. But really all they did was try to juxtapose Anduin as a fallen prince/king in some nonsensical plot trying to tug at the same strings. I don't know that their restraint deserves praise when its still cheap storytelling.

Shadowlands as a whole would of been stronger if didn't try to touch on the Lich King saga at all and just tried being its own thing.

[Nyel]

Cant say I am surprised, there is a huge Paper Shortage going on right now (thats also why the rammstein album being due is delayed to a unknown date, due to them not being able to print booklets).

We had this discussion the last time the book was delayed. A paper shortage is a plausible reason, but it's kinda weird that they don't just release the ebook on the scheduled date and the printed version later on. The digital version can be released asap the writing and editing of the book has finished.

The book was delayed for a third time if this is true.

[AngerFork]

We had this discussion the last time the book was delayed. A paper shortage is a plausible reason, but it's kinda weird that they don't just release the ebook on the scheduled date and the printed version later on. The digital version can be released asap the writing and editing of the book has finished.

The book was delayed for a third time if this is true.

I imagine it has to do with Day 1 sales numbers. Only having it available on digital formats would absolutely take those numbers down given how many people still like the feel of a book in their hands. Not to mention how delaying the print version could well upset some of their book vendors & hinder future release contracts.

[ZyntosAran]

I imagine it has to do with Day 1 sales numbers. Only having it available on digital formats would absolutely take those numbers down given how many people still like the feel of a book in their hands. Not to mention how delaying the print version could well upset some of their book vendors & hinder future release contracts.

Yes, as far as I know, there can be contract-based reasons for the publishing contract that states that the book versions have to be published on the same date, or obviously also sales-related reasons.

[UndedoKoleda]

Sylvanas & Anduin had equal screentime in the cinematic. Anduing going "Arthas?" was even a stretch because I'm like, if Anduin saw a picture of Arthas, would he even know who he was? This moment right here is the only way Anduin & Arthas' stories intersect. They're totally unrelated characters.

Yeah, how could he?

[pacotaco]

Because Anduin was never in some elaborate moral quandary. He understood right and wrong, tried his absolute best to do the right thing and then was forcibly mind controlled and made to do terrible things. This cinematic wasn't about character development for him, it was about him breaking free, which he did, in the entire first half. His reaction and development re: the things that he was forced to do is not something to deal with in 90 seconds in a cinematic immediately after being freed, it's something for him to deal with in the years to come as it changes his approach and attitude, and who he is as a leader (or even not a leader if it results in him permanently stepping down).

So the second half is about that last little glimmer of Arthas, and since Arthas himself in this tiny fragmented form is unable to actually speak, his end is told through the person whose entire character was created by Arthas' actions and who was the only one in the group of people so heavily connected that still hasn't quite let go of lingering resentment.

Like I get not liking Sylvanas. I've disliked her since Vanilla/WC3, but this is the one case where Sylvanas makes the absolute MOST sense to be the one doing something. Not Jaina, who has long sense moved past Arthas and is worried about Anduin, or Uther, whose storyline was all about him figuring out how to let go of Arthas, or Anduin who is dealing with his own shit and whose only connection to Arthas is him being the soul used for the mourneblade forging. Your other (absolutely terrible) option here is to have Arthas himself come back and end his own storyline, which is just awful. It was a much wiser narrative decision to have his last appearance be just a fragment of an echo fading away, seen through the eyes of the one person that spent her entire un-life haunted by and hating that echo.

I think the split sword has more symbolism than it seems at first glance: the same way that they were 2 swords that combined into one when the 2 parts of Varian's soul merged, Anduin splitting it in 2 (that we never have seen anyone do save Varian) could represent his internal struggle between his previous pacifist nature and a new found will to fight.

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As overused as this is it would be much better than any narrative beat that happened this or last expac.

Let’s pray that all this garbage was just an N’zoth dream

You think it would, but it wouldn't.

You'ld have people cry too about how doing that would make our previous exploits mean nothing, how awful that plot twist is, how deus-ex machina it feels to get freen from N'Zoth, how that undoes the character development in this expansion, etc.

[Ersula]

Yeah, how could he?

Yeah, Arthas is a major historical figure but a.) he has nothing to do with Anduin's personal history & b.) if you saw some dude with long blonde hair you'd never seen before, as Anduin has not, you'd just be like "I don't know who this is" let alone *recognize his soul.* Anduin hadn't even been born when Arthas became the Lich King & between the Frozen Throne & Wrath of the Lich King, nobody knew Arthas was even alive unless they personally interacted with him in that time.

Hell, Anduin could have just squinted at the ball of light & Jaina or Uther should have been the ones to say "Arthas?"

[Revamp Man]

I think the split sword has more symbolism than it seems at first glance: the same way that they were 2 swords that combined into one when the 2 parts of Varian's soul merged, Anduin splitting it in 2 (that we never have seen anyone do save Varian) could represent his internal struggle between his previous pacifist nature and a new found will to fight.

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You think it would, but it wouldn't.

You'ld have people cry too about how doing that would make our previous exploits mean nothing, how awful that plot twist is, how deus-ex machina it feels to get freen from N'Zoth, how that undoes the character development in this expansion, etc.

Saurfang split it

I think the sword holds part of previous wielder’s souls

It became one when Varian merged but he was still two at one point

The light in one sword went out when he was killed and Andui Found it with a light and he talked to his daddy


Saurfang managed to split it when he was actually fighting not just Sylvanas but her whole “you failed” thing I’m assuming his soul became a part of it

Now Anduin managed to split it and in the cinematic the two souls of Saurfang and Varian go into the two halves

[Kiivar86]

Anduin hadn't even been born when Arthas became the Lich King & between the Frozen Throne & Wrath of the Lich King, nobody knew Arthas was even alive unless they personally interacted with him in that time.

Anduin was born in year 15, Arthas became the Lich King in year 22.

Arthas even met baby Anduin (happens in the Arthas novel).

[train901]

what is the Ring of Transference portal left i may ask was it in beta or something???

[Archmage Xaxxas]

what is the Ring of Transference portal left i may ask was it in beta or something???

Everyone who brings this up conveniently forgets the Flight Path NPC is also covering one of these "portals" and yet doesn't count that as missing content.

There's no conspiracy here.

[pacotaco]

Yeah, exactly that. It's just very... basic and overused. Reminds me of famous TV shows that bring back "dead" characters or characters that left the show just to reinvigorate the show and get some viewers back.

It's a common trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...eCurseOutOfHim

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

Anduin was born in year 15, Arthas became the Lich King in year 22.

Arthas even met baby Anduin (happens in the Arthas novel).

Which still fits with what they're saying. Anduin is about 20 now and only met him when he was a baby/young child and probably didn't have a lot of interaction from then until Arthas entered his goth phase. It's not crazy to think he wouldn't know who he is or even recognize him.

[pacotaco]

They have been using magical realism a lot lately (kind of a foolhardy thing to do in a high fantasy setting) but it would align with Orc shamanistic spirituality: Thrall states his father's spirit is with him when he wields his axe. So I think we're meant to think of it as its actually happening. We have no concrete explanation that killing someone with fel would also destroy their soul, especially when we see how anima works it's more like the fel magic consumes some of the anima, while the rest of the soul escapes. And the Old Soul trinket is suggested to be Varok, but that's not clear either, or if the soul is literal, when it could be only figurative. The same way "the Pride of Stormwind" isn't literal. Or that's its just a piece of his soul.

The idea that Varok, Durotan & Varian's soul resides with noble weapons is a more fitting thing for the Warcraft setting.

Yeah, I agree that it's open to interpretation, so either explanation is valid