Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I don't find it so hard to believe that Anduin, being dominated by the Jailer and the essence of Arthas being used to power his equally dominated (and empowered) weapon, would recognize that very same essence after it separated from the blade.


Is it really that hard for people to engage in suspension of disbelief in a fictional work so that they may enjoy the content?

[Makabreska]

Saurfang split it

I think the sword holds part of previous wielder’s souls

It became one when Varian merged but he was still two at one point

The light in one sword went out when he was killed and Andui Found it with a light and he talked to his daddy


Saurfang managed to split it when he was actually fighting not just Sylvanas but her whole “you failed” thing I’m assuming his soul became a part of it

Now Anduin managed to split it and in the cinematic the two souls of Saurfang and Varian go into the two halves

Varian split it during Legion cinematic.

[Foolicious]

Plus there is zero chance that Anduin wouldn't know who Arthas is/was, he was the heir(and later destroyer of) to the biggest(?) human kingdom at the time, Anduin as a heir of kingdom himself most definitely would have known who Arthas was. Plus pictures, statues and history are a thing in WarCraft. That's like some country leader not knowing who Hitler was.

Also everyone around anduin has had a relationship with arthas. Genn, Varian, Jaina, Calia. Even Garrosh points out similarities between the two. So of course he knows who arthas is. I don't know where this thought of arthas being an unknown mystery to the world comes from.

[Triceron]

Arthas expended his own soul for vengeance (not justice, since he killed his own) but went down a dark path and became his own enemy; he was a goner, even in the afterlife.

That's the entire problem though.

Arthas' arc was concluded. We didn't need to see the aftermath of his soul being used to create Shalamourne only to dissipate and 'be forgotten'. That would be quite pointless to apply to an arc that had already concluded. It's not meaningful to the story at all other than to give Sylvanas some words to say to show she's over him.

The way they portrayed Arthas in the afterlife is that he was wronged by Uther since Arthas wouldn't have been judged into the Maw. So it's not really Arthas' own actions that lead him to be a 'goner', it was Uther's intervention in directly handing his soul over to the Jailer. And that isn't the Jailer manipulating things for this to happen either, this all happens separately.

So really they just shoehorned an Arthas story where he's got absolutely no control over having his soul tortured and shredded, and the conclusion is just 'let's all forget about it'. Like, why even bother bringing Arthas into the story here?

At this point I feel like the writers are still having their petty back-and-forth spats, and treating Arthas this way is some indirect way of getting back at Afrasiabi for what he did to Sylvanas. And in the end, it just hurts the fans.

[Jokubas]

I like the theory, it makes sense.

But I hate the fact it would need to be theorized and assumed, because it's not obvious or intuitive at all. If this was intentional from the devs, they need to seed the information well beforehand to make sense of it.

The way they present the cinematic here? It's just dumb and confusing, and any explanation of this level is bordering on headcanon. Like, we have to assume that Shalamayne is a reverse mourneblade that houses souls, then only working if the user splits the sword, and being able to maintain the good version of those souls even after being reforged into a mourneblade. That's a LOT to consider.

I don't think it needs to be literally true, at least not yet. Just symbolic.

I mean, it's a bit weird to have visions of ghosts show up when we're already in the afterlife where those sort of spirits tend to basically be physical, but then the Shadowlands themselves haven't exactly been consistent. Also, while the existing assumption is that Saurfang would have ended up in the Maw due to timing, we've long since been in and out of there and rescuing souls. The idea that we've rescued his without knowing it so it can appear for something like this isn't a stretch. As for Varian, there's no reason to assume he can't appear. The whole fel permanently eradicates a soul is something that's never actually been part of the plot (and in fact, we already saw a vision of Varian similar to this in the same expansion he died). The movie universe focused on consequences of fel far more the game ever has. That's not to say the lore doesn't exist somewhere, but that sort of background lore shifts all the time.

In other words, while assuming the details of how Varian and Saurfang are showing up here is kinda writing the story for them at the moment, there's really no reason to assume they couldn't, so for now it doesn't matter much.

Of course, if I'm right and the next expansion picks up on some of the Elune plot threads, the sword's history and new powers might actually come up, since it was originally a night elven sword forged in the War of the Ancients after all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Treating his presence as an echo or his spirit somehow lingering still is fine. Not crazy to think about. I do think its too speculatory to assume all of this is the result of trying to get back at afrasibi.

[Catastrophy349]

Now that we got the 2:43 cinematic (Anduin encounter one), what are we hoping for/expecting next week? There are still 3 more data-mined cinematics (which will obviously all be next week).

[Triceron]

Of course, if I'm right and the next expansion picks up on some of the Elune plot threads, the sword's history and new powers might actually come up, since it was originally a night elven sword forged in the War of the Ancients after all.

The sooner they drop it entirely, the better. If you like the lore behind the sword, it's better left alone and never explored.

Blizzard doesn't have a good track record of building on old lore, the way you want it to. They'll end up writing a completely new one, and shove a bunch of needless connections to current characters to make it sound cooler. Pretty much how everything in Shadowlands ends up being explained.

I bet you, if they explore the origins of Shalla'tor and Ellemayne they'll somehow mess it up and say the swords could always combine into one, and probably have someone like Illidan be the one who demonstrates its use even though he was strictly a Sorcerer back then. Cuz you know, it'd be cool to have Illidan connected to the sword's history too right? Right?

[Valysar]

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...-vendor-2-cdn/

9.2.5 already on vendor 2 cdn

[ChairmanKaga]

The WoW community thinking they are able to write something better than the WoW writers while simultaneously suggesting the most idiotic things ever has been a running theme for a few expansions now.

I see this in alot of fandoms. I guess it's just a common reaction by people invested in whatever fictional world.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The WoW community thinking they are able to write something better than the WoW writers while simultaneously suggesting the most idiotic things ever has been a running theme for a few expansions now.

Waaaat???? No, no, no! You see, Lor'Themar should've dismantled the Horderino in MoP and the Horde should've been in internment camps for the rest of the whole game!!!!!! Don't you understand how genius this solution is????????

Also just about every solution I've seen for the Sylvanas problem.

[Fiercelord]

I really wonder why they brought Calia to Oribos

[Polybius]

That's the entire problem though.

Arthas' arc was concluded. We didn't need to see the aftermath of his soul being used to create Shalamourne only to dissipate and 'be forgotten'. That would be quite pointless to apply to an arc that had already concluded. It's not meaningful to the story at all other than to give Sylvanas some words to say to show she's over him.

The way they portrayed Arthas in the afterlife is that he was wronged by Uther since Arthas wouldn't have been judged into the Maw. So it's not really Arthas' own actions that lead him to be a 'goner', it was Uther's intervention in directly handing his soul over to the Jailer. And that isn't the Jailer manipulating things for this to happen either, this all happens separately.

So really they just shoehorned an Arthas story where he's got absolutely no control over having his soul tortured and shredded, and the conclusion is just 'let's all forget about it'. Like, why even bother bringing Arthas into the story here?

At this point I feel like the writers are still having their petty back-and-forth spats, and treating Arthas this way is some indirect way of getting back at Afrasiabi for what he did to Sylvanas. And in the end, it just hurts the fans.

One of the quests concludes Uther was ultimately not in control of Arthas choices and fate.

If i’m not mistaken the three of them had their souls split. Arthas was the only one messing with a blade that had domination runes. I don’t know the logic behind Arthas soul but I do know his heart was destroyed in WotLK. Also: “Whomsoever takes up this blade shall wield power eternal. Just as the blade rends flesh, so must power scar the spirit“. There’s nothing that says Arthas wouldn’t have defected in Bastion, or that his soul was grossly incomplete and prone to fading.

[ChairmanKaga]

Now that we got the 2:43 cinematic (Anduin encounter one), what are we hoping for/expecting next week? There are still 3 more data-mined cinematics (which will obviously all be next week).

3 total or 3 more?

[Triceron]

One of the quests concludes Uther was ultimately not in control of Arthas choices and fate.

If i’m not mistaken the three of them had their souls split. Arthas was the only one messing with a blade that had domination runes. I don’t know the logic behind Arthas soul but I do know his heart was destroyed in WotLK. Also: “Whomsoever takes up this blade shall wield power eternal. Just as the blade rends flesh, so must power scar the spirit“. There’s nothing that says Arthas wouldn’t have defected in Bastion, or that his soul was grossly incomplete and prone to fading.

I'm taking a Doylist approach to the lore and say that there's nothing to say anything about Arthas because he's ultimately gonna be written to service the story in any which way the writers want it. And clearly here, he's just a tool to explain Anduin's manipulation, and to give Sylvanas a moment to say her peace and put vengeance behind her.

Nothing about this story has anything to do with actually telling Arthas' story, so he wouldn't have defected in Bastion because that would actually involve making him a character, which they had no intention of doing. His soul is merely a macguffin.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

I really wonder why they brought Calia to Oribos

and bothered to give her a new model in BfA.


Crackpot theory of mine is that somehow Arthas/Lich King soul fragments were actually meant to be the Antagonist/Protagonist at first.
As if the entire Split Soul arc for Sylvanas was originally Arthas's.
and that Calia was going to be part of the story to rejoin the pieces, being a priest and all idk.

Something about the new cutscene just gave me that feeling, though definitely unsubstantiated.


Either way, the emphasis Sylvanas puts on the Menethil name I think is a sure bet Calia will be doing something big soonish, as to directly contradict the 'last whispers' fading line.

[Polybius]

and bothered to give her a new model in BfA.


Crackpot theory of mine is that somehow Arthas/Lich King soul fragments were actually meant to be the Antagonist/Protagonist at first.
As if the entire Split Soul arc for Sylvanas was originally Arthas's.
and that Calia was going to be part of the story to rejoin the pieces, being a priest and all idk.

Something about the new cutscene just gave me that feeling, though definitely unsubstantiated.


Either way, the emphasis Sylvanas puts on the Menethil name I think is a sure bet Calia will be doing something big soonish, as to directly contradict the 'last whispers' fading line.

Man, Shadowlands is almost a copy of Legion. This would’ve made it similar to Illidan.

Too bad we didn’t get to see more of Calia.

[ChairmanKaga]

and bothered to give her a new model in BfA.

It was obvious they were setting the stage for her as the new Forsaken leader after Sylvanas but I think they are either reconsidering or reworking it.

[UndedoKoleda]

Also everyone around anduin has had a relationship with arthas. Genn, Varian, Jaina, Calia. Even Garrosh points out similarities between the two. So of course he knows who arthas is. I don't know where this thought of arthas being an unknown mystery to the world comes from.

Not to mention Bolvar, who acted as Anduin's Regen Lord, while Varian was missing, and "died" fighting the Scourge(Arthas).

[Sondrelk]

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...-vendor-2-cdn/

9.2.5 already on vendor 2 cdn

Seems to me like they probably want to get it our ASAP so they can have players focus entirely on the 10.0 Alpha and Beta once that opens.