Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ersula]

If you squish it then theoretically players won't be able to finish BfA story line as they become to high for it, OR blizzard will make it so they could but then not have enough levels left to finish shadow lands.

Who said anything about level squashing? I said 60 to 70 for a revamped Azeroth. Essentially they're treating Kalimdor & EK as the new continent.

What your suggesting is just gonna start shit up again since you wouldn't be able to level from 15 to 60 by experiencing both BfA and SL without passing the level threshold at some point.

They already cut down the leveling experience from 70 hours to 6 hours in 9.0, why would they need to squish it again? 10 to 50 will still be BFA and 50 to 60 will still be Shadowlands.

[Varx]

They wouldn’t be “HD remakes”, pretty sure they’d have a change in environ and demographic given ongoing conflicts. You’d have to have no imagination to think they can’t pull it off in small increments. Players want to experience the natural world again, because there’s untapped themes.

Dude, no one wants to go untap old zones...

New expansions means exploring new lands, not some updated old ones because some players are bored with their casual content.

If it makes sense in the story then individual zones can be updated as they did in BFA.

But no, it's be completely insane to sell 10.0 without some new land to explore and instead make us go through the wetlands because some kobolds dug to far deep in some random cave.

[Vakir]

why do you even want a world revamp?

Just hope for a new engine.

I'm ok to having only the new "continent" with the new engine old zones added by time.

This is even less likely. Just think of how involved it was just for them to update player models.

Dude, no one wants to go untap old zones....

But no, it's be completely insane to sell 10.0 without some new land to explore and instead make us go through the wetlands because some kobolds dug to far deep in some random cave.

I mean, I do.

WoW returning to smaller stories is my jam. Going to a new continent for a self contained meta story is both routine and makes the world feel smaller.

"Champion, we found a mysterious land full of danger and wonder...AGAIN again."

[Polybius]

why do you even want a world revamp?

Just hope for a new engine.

I'm ok to having only the new "continent" with the new engine old zones added by time.

Presumably they’ve updated the engine. We won’t know if a WoW 2 is even happening until later. Even then, players are building attachment to new races and classes, so a new game would have to address that.

[Polybius]

Dude, no one wants to go untap old zones...

New expansions means exploring new lands, not some updated old ones because some players are bored with their casual content.

If it makes sense in the story then individual zones can be updated as they did in BFA.

But no, it's be completely insane to sell 10.0 without some new land to explore and instead make us go through the wetlands because some kobolds dug to far deep in some random cave.

Like I said, no imagination.

[Varx]

Who said anything about level squashing? I said 60 to 70 for a revamped Azeroth. Essentially they're treating Kalimdor & EK as the new continent.
They already cut down the leveling experience from 70 hours to 6 hours in 9.0, why would they need to squish it again? 10 to 50 will still be BFA and 50 to 60 will still be Shadowlands.

Which against creates an interrupted narrative for new players...

You really think the leveling experience will be so smooth that players will get to 50 by completing the BfA leveling story in it's entirety, and then again with SL.

Your also assuming blizz doesn't just revert us back to 50 because if they dont then we'll have another inevitable level squish.

You need to keep all this in mind.

And again, what about all the past expansion zones, will they be updated too??

Like come on...

[Raetary]

And again, what about all the past expansion zones, will they be updated too??

No, of course not.
When people are talking about revamping the world, they are talking about the old world continents - Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

[Varx]

Like I said, no imagination.

And you're just fueled by silly and impractical wishful thinking.

Like every new land to explore requires imagination to create.

Taking old zones and painting over them is not on the same level.

Again, should outland, north, pandaland, BI, Zand, KT, be updated too? Cuz last I checked they're also part of the world.

You guys are the perfect example of, "you think you know but you don't"

[Edward Wu]

I just want an expansion that really focuses on casual play, more so than ever before. I'm so tired of hardcore raiding and the e-sports scene surrounding it, with all the hardcore culture that comes with it like spreadsheet culture and general toxicity.

But that will never happen sadly.

[Varx]

No, of course not.
When people are talking about revamping the world, they are talking about the old world continents - Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

Na if you wanna reflect the world with recent developments you either do it all or nothing right?

This is why the revamp crowd doesn't know wtf they're asking for.

[Ersula]

Which against creates an interrupted narrative for new players...

Not any moreso than following up Shadowlands with an entirely new continent. They'll have to revamp the leveling experience again in 10 years no matter what they do, but they know it's not worth worrying about right now.

[Varx]

Actually, I would argue a huge chunk of people would love to experience killing gnolls in a modern version of Redridge. Much more so than find another bland new Shadowlands-esque continent which doesn't feel like Warcraft and never be seen or heard from again.

There's a reason the number of former players is higher than the number of current players. Blizzard created a simple fantasy world where normal people like you and me could get some nice escapism for a bit. The game isn't that anymore.

Killing gnolls in old and insignificant zones doesn't sell expansions, sorry to burst your bubble.

Dragons and Tinkers in mystical unexplored lands sells boxes.

[Raetary]

Na if you wanna reflect the world with recent developments you either do it all or nothing right?

Revamping Kal and EK fully IS all or nothing...

At this point you are just being disingenious.

[Varx]

Not any moreso than following up Shadowlands with an entirely new continent. They'll have to revamp the leveling experience again in 10 years no matter what they do, but they know it's not worth worrying about right now.

No they don't, they just need to reset us back to 50 and have new players go straight to SL after exile's.

This is why exiles is narrative neutral.

[Vakir]

I just want an expansion that really focuses on casual play, more so than ever before. I'm so tired of hardcore raiding and the e-sports scene surrounding it, with all the hardcore culture that comes with it like spreadsheet culture and general toxicity.

But that will never happen sadly.

In fairness, even were that the intent by devs, the more hardcore players will still find new gameified ways to create a new meta and players that want to be part of that will still pursue the same standards. Like how different actual-Vanilla ended up being from Classic in terms of chasing boosts, world buffs, etc. with or without eSports involvement.

The best solution would be aiming for accessibility for players to improve and discouraging mechanics that lend themselves to require simming rather than trying to "fix" the population set in their ways.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't disagree that she has mostly moved on, but I do feel it's valid to want a more cohesive "end" seeing as Arthas is literally right there.
Jaina moved on sure, but I don't see why this means she needs to stay silent so Sylvanas can monologue about being such a level headed gal instead. Nor for that matter why Uther, who yes had a very solid arc in SL about coming to terms with Arthas, why he can't have a more complete end to his arc.

In short it's really more about why Sylvanas has to come in an hijack this scene which could have been a nice bow to Arthas' character by inesrting her own terribly mishandled character.

I think the people saying "but Jaina and Uther already had X!" are missing the forest for the trees.

We're not saying that they need to monologue at length and haven't moved on either, but the fact that they got so little in the character's actual-for-real-final-death moments is bizarre.

If you, I dunno, get therapy to deal with your abusive partner or family member, even if you've moved on, if you ever run into them again or have final words for them before they actually-die, you're going to still have a lot to process and have some words to say. The experiences didn't go away because you don't have flashbacks or panic attacks anymore.

Sylvanas doing ALL the talking with such a sanctimonious tone for the second half of her shpiel was just the cherry on top.

The assumption seems to be we want 90-10 the other way, when we're asking for it to be maybe 70-30 (with 70 being split between two characters).

In natural form, this is misconstrued dishonestly as "Wah, I want Jaina to pine for Arthas forever and I didn't pay attention with the Kyrian stuff" when none of that is true.

I think that's the problem. This wasn't an eulogy for Arthas, it was about closure for Sylvanas -which again, she was the only one that needed it-

And you can dislike that it wasn't *about* Arthas at the end, but it was clear that he was long gone as an actual character, so any words spoken would only be about what the living (well...) characters need for themselves.

Of course if you don't like Sylvanas you're not going to like this scene that is about her own ruminations, that's completely understandable. For better or worse, Arthas is just a prop here, a memory; and by function of it, the focus just really shouldn't be on him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Na if you wanna reflect the world with recent developments you either do it all or nothing right?

This is why the revamp crowd doesn't know wtf they're asking for.

I think they know what they're asking but....you seem to be a bit too aggressive against the revamp crowd.

[Ersula]

Na if you wanna reflect the world with recent developments you either do it all or nothing right?

This is why the revamp crowd doesn't know wtf they're asking for.

If a world revamp doesn't include Northrend or Pandaria, who cares? You can't reach those zones without a taxi & loading screen anyway. And the game already treats these areas as existing in their own bubble of time, why not spend a new expansion on a revamped version of an old contentment instead of creating an entirely new one? It's functionally the same if both exist thanks to timewalking.

[Varx]

Revamping Kal and EK fully IS all or nothing...

At this point you are just being disingenious.

Okay so nothing at all happens in north rend after the fall of Bolivar, thrall living in nagrand means outland hasn't changed at all, the events of 8.3 had absolutely no consequence in panda land, the defeat of the legion and the NB and HM tauren joining the horse holds zero weight in the happenings of the Broken isles. Same with zandalar and the vulpera and trolls joining the horde.

Again, the revamp crowd has zero fucking idea what they're asking for.

Revamp EK and Kal but everyone else is stuck in time limbo???

Like why, just keep moving us forward to places we haven't explored and enjoy the damn ride.

[Ersula]

In short it's really more about why Sylvanas has to come in an hijack this scene which could have been a nice bow to Arthas' character by inesrting her own terribly mishandled character.

Arthas was always a villain. That's all he was ever supposed to be.