Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Syegfryed]

MoP had issues that were 90% fixed by the final patch just like shadowlands

isn't like this on all expansions, they onyl fix the issues in the final patch to say they finnaly learned what to do.

MOP was 10x better than every other expansion anyway, at least there the classes that we played didn't feel totally dogshit, they ruined the classes with the "fantasy class bs.

I remember back then i could spend an entire day playing bgs and was fun, no joke, i leveled 2-3 characters from 10 to 70-85 by doing random bgs alone, today i do one bg and i want to shot my left nut with a bazooka.

If the classes you play feel bad its cuts half of the expansion enjoyment.

[Hitei]

isn't like this on all expansions, they onyl fix the issues in the final patch to say they finnaly learned what to do.

MOP was 10x better than every other expansion anyway, at least there the classes that we played didn't feel totally dogshit, they ruined the classes with the "fantasy class bs.

I remember back then i could spend an entire day playing bgs and was fun, no joke, i leveled 2-3 characters from 10 to 70-85 by doing random bgs alone, today i do one bg and i want to shot my left nut with a bazooka.

If the classes you play feel bad its cuts half of the expansion enjoyment.

I guess if you like homogenized garbage, more power to you.

[Syegfryed]

I guess if you like homogenized garbage, more power to you.

you talk like today isn't garbage, lmao

[Relapses]

you talk like today isn't garbage, lmao

How dare anybody like a thing you don't like. Or worse, not like a thing you like!

[Syegfryed]

How dare anybody like a thing you don't like. Or worse, not like a thing you like!

you didn't say that to the guy who said mop was garbage, funny the double standard isn't

[Alanar]

I liked Wrath. I will not be playing Wrath Classic. Been there, done that.

I would only maybe play at the start, cus dks 8.0 were hilarious and I can play specs such as blood dps that is way more fub then what we have now. But outside these shenigens, nothing really shines throught..

Ulduar?, Arthas? Who cares.

[Chickat]

They have almost always tested a final minor patch of one expansion & the alpha to the next expansion simultaneously. Just a perk of making the Beta & PTR different clients.

My Allied Race sense is tingling because we're mirroring 7.3 & 7.3.5: They'd only be rushing out 9.2.5 if there's an additional pre-order bonus coming with it & if that's the case they would also need to announce the Expansion pre-order before 9.2.5 can be datamined.

Oh thats a good point. Vender encrypted ptr next week along with an announcement for a wow whats next stream. 9.2.5 preorder bonus revealed with ptr going up that week. Alpha going up in late March or early April.

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I want a new class, preferably ranged with healer spec.

As for races, as much as i would love more of them i'd prefer if they stick to the 24(!) we have right now and just keep on expanding their customization options.

I agree, no more allied races. Add 1 more neutral race, and expand current races customization. A class is a must for me to be truly hyped.

[Cosmic Janitor]

That's pretty impressive, considering its not true & also WoW's height was exactly one expansion earlier. The decline during MoP was even more severe than in Cataclysm, mostly because MoP's endgame was notoriously grindy bullshit dailies & put off most casual players

The peak at expansion launch has been a reoccuring phenomenon that we can pretty much asume to be a constant in every expansion since WoW's factual decline in late Wrath. Both MoP and WoD had a rise back to 10ish million subs back then.

As for the decline, I'm not so sure. I haven't done the proper math, but by eyeballing it the decline is pretty much similar if we exclude the meteoric rise at each expansion's last data point, as that pretty much has to be attested to the next expansion in line. Even ignoring that last point (which would also favor MoP), MoP seems to have a slightly less steep trajectory. This can be mostly attributed to the plateau in the middle of the expansion and the generally longer duration of MoP. I'd say pitch_MoP>=pitch_Cata (both of them obviously being negative overall).

https://imgur.com/gallery/EB2Tzyh

Btw, I have very little love for MoP, as I loathed the fucking pandaren and their silly culture. To me they are still nothing more than a rather lame joke. But even then, MoP didn't hurt the game (at the time) much more than Cata did. Edit: Which kinda makes me wonder what Blizzard will do after WotLK, like seriously, who in their right mind is hyped to be playing Cata again? O.o

[Relapses]

you didn't say that to the guy who said mop was garbage, funny the double standard isn't

I'm sorry, I guess I'm supposed to take the claim that "MoP is 10x better than every other expansion" as a factual truth with absolutely zero personal bias. Carry on, friend.

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Btw, I have very little love for MoP, as I loathed the fucking pandaren and their silly culture. To me they are still nothing more than a rather lame joke. But even then, MoP didn't hurt the game (at the time) much more than Cata did.

You're drawing unknowable conclusions from incomplete data. We have no idea what caused people to quit. In fact, people could have been quitting in higher numbers in every expansion leading up to Cata and we'd never see it on that graph you linked. You know why? Because it doesn't show how many people quit, nor does it show how many new players were generated. A subscription model is neither holistic nor is it zero sum. The number of players fluctuates massively and without attrition data those data points are almost entirely pointless. As an example: If 1.5 million players quit but 2 million players join, we'd see a 500k uptick on the graph. If 1 million players quit but only 600k players joined, we'd see a loss on the graph but the people quitting has actually decreased, the only difference is the number of new players generated. Because we do not know the two pieces of information which would give us the necessary insight we'd need to know how subscriptions are actually trending, subscription levels on their own are an incredibly poor metric to gauge the popularity (or quality) of an expansion.

Any argument that uses subscription numbers as its backbone is inherently flawed. Any observation you make about how one expansion "lost" more subscribers than another is flawed for the same reason.

[Syegfryed]

I'm sorry, I guess I'm supposed to take the claim that "MoP is 10x better than every other expansion" as a factual truth with absolutely zero personal bias. Carry on, friend.

No, no, we should take your take as faction truth, of course, keep the good work.

[Gimlix]

That's pretty impressive, considering its not true & also WoW's height was exactly one expansion earlier. The decline during MoP was even more severe than in Cataclysm, mostly because MoP's endgame was notoriously grindy bullshit dailies & put off most casual players. The Dailies in MoP were so bullshit they had to avoid building the endgame around dailies during the following expansion. What expansion are you even talking about? "More features than the last 3 expansions combined?" What? A farm? Challenge mode? 3-man dungeons? Only one of those features is still in the game & it had to be massively revamped in order to even be fun.

You mean MoP put down the foundation we have today?

- Return of World Bosses
- CM ( M+ dungeons)
- Flex raiding ( overhaul of raiding)
- Farm (Garrison start)

And so on. You can hate what you like, but MoP was and still is one of the best expansions till this day. Hell even PvP was good.

[Relapses]

No, no, we should take your take as faction truth, of course, keep the good work.

I didn't even state my take. I quite like MoP but I'm not going to try to convince anybody it's 10x better than every other expansion.

[Syegfryed]

You mean MoP put down the foundation we have today?

- Return of World Bosses
- CM ( M+ dungeons)
- Flex raiding ( overhaul of raiding)
- Farm (Garrison start)

And so on. You can hate what you like, but MoP was and still is one of the best expansions till this day. Hell even PvP was good.

MOP also had better worldbuilding, better lore, good raids/patches, isle of thunder is still one of the best contents they put ingame. Classes were much better, not prunned and good to play, pvp was in their golden era.

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I didn't even state my take. I quite like MoP but I'm not going to try to convince anybody it's 10x better than every other expansion.

it was mean to be every expansion after MOP, which was when they start doing the "class fantasy", that pruned and butcher most of the classes and specs.

[Gimlix]

MOP also had better worldbuilding, better lore, good raids/patches, isle of thunder is still one of the best contents they put ingame. Classes were much better, not prunned and good to play, pvp was in their golden era.

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it was mean to be every expansion after MOP, which was when they start doing the "class fantasy", that pruned and butcher most of the classes and specs.

I remember when we went from Cataclysm to MoP, i was so exciting seeing the new talent system, the effects of the spells etc. I haven't been excited about WoW since. (Might be due the fact i been playing for so long) but MoP really had that game changing changes. Made me wanna play the game, made me be upset that i didn't had beta.

Nowadays each expansion are same and just powered based. There is no fun in that at all. Especially now a mission table is called a feature and just taken over from last expansion.

MoP had everything, even new capitals for us to hang in. I remember them pumping out new patches quite fast and they were quite some quality patches.

[Makorus]

I remember when we went from Cataclysm to MoP, i was so exciting seeing the new talent system, the effects of the spells etc. I haven't been excited about WoW since. (Might be due the fact i been playing for so long) but MoP really had that game changing changes. Made me wanna play the game, made me be upset that i didn't had beta.

Nowadays each expansion are same and just powered based. There is no fun in that at all. Especially now a mission table is called a feature and just taken over from last expansion.

MoP had everything, even new capitals for us to hang in. I remember them pumping out new patches quite fast and they were quite some quality patches.

When were mission tables touted as a feature, exactly?

[Syegfryed]

I remember when we went from Cataclysm to MoP, i was so exciting seeing the new talent system, the effects of the spells etc. I haven't been excited about WoW since. (Might be due the fact i been playing for so long) but MoP really had that game changing changes. Made me wanna play the game, made me be upset that i didn't had beta.

Nowadays each expansion are same and just powered based. There is no fun in that at all. Especially now a mission table is called a feature and just taken over from last expansion.

MoP had everything, even new capitals for us to hang in. I remember them pumping out new patches quite fast and they were quite some quality patches.

i didn't even buy mop until middle/end expansion and had more fun than bfa and shadowlands together, lol; Even going back to play as old content was engaging enough, i remember going back to isle of thunder to get the warlock tome( green fire quest, more points to mop) and was nice.

People shit on the dailies, but most of then were fine, the Order of the Cloud Serpent was cool and you train your dragon, did those shits 3 times for each mount.

also i liked much more the new talent system, especially on my warlock at that time, had some rly cool game changing mechanics, like the row with kil'jaden, archimonde and manoroth talents.

[LalaGamer]

Any good leaks for 10.0 or every thing just in a nutshell ??

[Nightshade711]

Any good leaks for 10.0 or every thing just in a nutshell ??

There’s not really any good leaks this time around.
Most feel like fan fictions.

General consensus is dragon/dragon isles expansion with a new class and/or race.

[Nyel]

I fear classic wrath will be plagued by the same issues as its original incarnation, namely that it has massive hype initially, but the base offering is rather substandard and people quickly dropped out. It then peaks once massively during ulduar, completely crashes during AT and it's trash tier raid and then has a somewhat decent slow burn towards the end. While wrath was the expansion in which the game peaked, it was also the expansion where its momentum reversed; if we are objective about the graph. It was the expansion that no longer could keep people around and let's be real here, classic is pretty much the epitome of raid-logging anyway, since the game has been solved 15 years ago. This already became even more apparent during BC and Wrath will show this even stronger, since they made it alot more accessible than vanilla and BC. Edit: Not to mention this time alot more people did Naxx compared to "the olden days" where it was pretty much still a mystery to many, even by the end of sunwell.

I think in case of WotLK Classic none of the issues matter. You‘re right as those have been the issues back in 2008/09, but WotLK Classic will all be about making a TON of cash right at launch with overpriced packages and bundles. The same as TBC. And alone due to how popular WotLK was and to this day still is, that’s where the money lies. I know a lot of people who stopped right after WotLK and will come back just for that experience. I personally never felt WotLK was that great honestly. The new class was amazing and Ulduar to this day might be the best WoW raid, but the expansion itself was very boring in my eyes.

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I think Wotlk Classic will have hype initially but I think it will die down pretty fast and expose a lot of people to the glaring problems with that expansion, 2 of the worst raid tiers of all time. Naxx will be especially bad now considering a lot of people who played Classic actually got to do Naxx (which wasn't necessarily the case in original Wotlk) so people will have to spend months doing a boring raid they already did before. Ulduar and ICC will probably bring some hype but you also got the god awful Trial of the Crusader sandwiched in between.

I agree with everything you said, but see my comment above. None of these issues matter when Blizz makes a ton of cash from initial sales, which they undoubted will alone due to nostalgia.

_____

My initial point about this shouldn’t be missed as it’s important for context: 10.0 is the last expansion they can fail with due to how popular WotLK is. And if 10.0 is as ambitious as Shadowlands or BfA, which was discussed as a possibility, WotLK can counter that backlash pretty good. After WotLK Classic they have no jokers up their sleeves anymore. So while I don’t expect 10.0 to be just mediocre, they could do it due to WotLK Classic. For 11.0 it wouldn’t work anymore and they (=WoW) would go down with yet another lackluster expansion.

[Hyrja]

There will be a lot of hype once limit/echo are on the last boss during the rwf and im sure Blizzard will have something to share shortly after the jailer is dead and the end cinematic is out