Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[KainneAbsolute]

Source? His plan involved resetting existence by killing all the world souls and most life and hoping that life would come back with less capability for void incursion, not recreating the universe without the void's existence. In his hypothetical, the void is still there exactly as it is now, he's just trying to brick up the doorway so that everything stays as is.

I got it. Yeah, I confused the previous sentence" "The universe had created itself once before, it would surely do so again — and perhaps that tale would be a different one. "

[Dragon ANX]

No, the very first quests you do once you enter Oribos makes you establish portals to Org/SW.
We can come and go as we please.

Not to mention that the footage we saw from the epilogue quests had a few characters in it that didn't enter the Shadowlands with us at the beginning.

They are never going to make us be stuck in a place for more than a questline or scenario.
Even in WoD Khadgar immediately opened portals to the capitals when we set up camp.

I mean, could we from the perspective of lore be stuck there?
Like in Legion, Lore wise there was just one Felo'melorn, but gameplay wise there was 1 for anyone playing fire mage.

[Raetary]

I mean, could we from the perspective of lore be stuck there?
Like in Legion, Lore wise there was just one Felo'melorn, but gameplay wise there was 1 for anyone playing fire mage.

Check the post above.

[KainneAbsolute]

Void Lords are part of the divided cosmos that according to Jailer needs to unite.

"What is to come" is something even bigger and badder than the Void Lords.

Interesting point of view, but isn't like Wrathion's narrative in MOP but in multiversal level?

[Edward Wu]

Woke: Fire Ion & Danuser

Broke: Everything is fine.

Bespoke: Half the devs need to be fired and replaced with fresh, talented hires for the ship to be righted.

[huth]

Denathrius banished the Dreadlords out into the cosmos.
The Necrolords have out-of-plane operations, like the one we see Draka in in her Warbringer.
The Brokers enter and leave reality whenver they want, where do you think they get their artifacts and playthings from?
Etc.

If we could open up and hold portals between different universes altogether like in wod, i think we can easily open up portals between the SL and reality.

Missing the point. That such is possible doesn't mean that the portals are themself proof, since they were established at a time where the veil was already weakened.
Or, put another way: I'm not saying the question can't be answered. I'm saying the portals aren't the answer.

[Soulwind]

So not only was Zereth Mortis a repeat of Ulduar (everything that you know was made by these powerful beings!), but Zovaal is a repeat of Sargeras (he wasn't evil, he had a misguided plan against a bigger threat!).

I don't know what's worse, to think that they know how iterative these stories are, and they are just pushing them out because players will swallow anything, or to think that they are so blind and ignorant of their own franchise that they don't even realize they're repeating the same formulas.

[Lahis]

How the hell is the Lich King cinematic when Arthas died so good, and this is so bad? It lasted 4+ minutes, had character development, emotion, great music, sweet voice work, and a satisfying conclusion ON TOP OF teasing a potential future problem.

This is just a big meh.

Wrath of the Lich King had a solid storyline with good characters.

Shadowlands has neither of those. Can't polish a turd.

[Sondrelk]

Was N‘zoth killed to build up the Jailer? I think that’s exactly what did not happen. If N‘zoth would have lead to the Jailer it wouldn’t be a problem, but it was Sylvanas.

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Yeah. Just something… relatable yet surprising. And something with more personality and back story than the flop the entire Shadowland‘s plot was.

N'zoth was killed to make room for the Jailer I should have said.

It's what makes BfA even worse in hindsight, and why it will likely never be topped in terms of atrocious writing. Because while SL is boring and lacking in substance, BfA had an amazing opening hook and then promptly used that hook in awful ways to remove longstanding threats without even figuring out how the pieces fit together, and all to lead to SL.

Legion removed the Burning Legion to let us get back to Azeroth and focus on the Old Gods and the Factions. BfA then butchered the factions and crammed the Old Gods and Naga into it so they could have room for Zovaal, which in SL has now been removed from the plot as well.

So in short the story since Legion has essentially been equivalent to a toddler picking up toys, playing with them for a couple of seconds, then throwing them in the trash before moving onto something else.
Blizzard really needs to sit down and realize that you can play with your toys more than once, and in different ways. You don't have to immediately go to the logical endpoint to be able to move on, it is possible to have a pseudo-ending and put the story on hold.

[Dragon ANX]

Denathrius banished the Dreadlords out into the cosmos.
The Necrolords have out-of-plane operations, like the one we see Draka in in her Warbringer.
The Brokers enter and leave reality whenver they want, where do you think they get their artifacts and playthings from?
Etc.

If we could open up and hold portals between different universes altogether like in wod, i think we can easily open up portals between the SL and reality.
We are already doing it -> Oribos Portals, and so is everybody else.

Also:


Those 3 could not be there if we were stuck.

I do agree with you, but couldn't they say that the Jailer death disrupted something?

Void Lords are part of the divided cosmos that according to Jailer needs to unite.

"What is to come" is something even bigger and badder than the Void Lords.

Interesting point of view, but isn't like Wrathion's narrative in MOP but in multiversal level?

In one of Bellular lore videos he talks about it
Something about a cosmic super powerfull Crooked Serpent that was hinted way back in the past and is being teased again now in SL

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

How the hell is the Lich King cinematic when Arthas died so good, and this is so bad? It lasted 4+ minutes, had character development, emotion, great music, sweet voice work, and a satisfying conclusion ON TOP OF teasing a potential future problem.

This is just a big meh.

The Arthas one tied together a long-running storyline with characters (both living and dead) that players had grown to care about.

The Jailer one tied absolutely nothing together that we didn't already know and then ends with a "but the story isn't over yet, I was actually one cog in a bigger war."

So much for "Ending this arc of Warcraft." That ended up nakedly being trying to steal 14's talking points.

[Lady Atia]

Missing the point. That such is possible doesn't mean that the portals are themself proof, since they were established at a time where the veil was already weakened.
Or, put another way: I'm not saying the question can't be answered. I'm saying the portals aren't the answer.

Any of the Eternal Ones can easily open up a portal to Azeroth to help us out. Honestly, don't make an issue out of everything just to complain ...

[Lahis]

The pre-fight cinematic showed that The Soul Forges from ICC were actual engines made to draw power from Azeroth's core. It also showed the Frozen Throne is a conduit to channel that energy into the Maw through the tear that the Helm of Domination opened. All these factors build on things we are familiar with. It gives purpose to things we were exposed to when we didn't know their original purpose. It is great storytelling.

The end cinematic just keeps introducing things and never tells us anything. It does not give purpose to anything, expect to get us to "stay tuned".

Jailer has nothing going for him, so they grasp straws from past good lore in a desperate attempt to make him relevant and us care about him.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

I don't know what's worse, to think that they know how iterative these stories are, and they are just pushing them out because players will swallow anything, or to think that they are so blind and ignorant of their own franchise that they don't even realize they're repeating the same formulas.

[Sondrelk]

So not only was Zereth Mortis a repeat of Ulduar (everything that you know was made by these powerful beings!), but Zovaal is a repeat of Sargeras (he wasn't evil, he had a misguided plan against a bigger threat!).

I don't know what's worse, to think that they know how iterative these stories are, and they are just pushing them out because players will swallow anything, or to think that they are so blind and ignorant of their own franchise that they don't even realize they're repeating the same formulas.

The story makes sense if you assume that it was made as the Sylvanas equivalent of Legion.
A big bombastic epic that centers around one character and his/her story.

The Jailer was just a macguffin for Sylvanas' arc to center around, which is why his story is so woefully malnourished.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The story makes sense if you assume that it was made as the Sylvanas equivalent of Legion.
A big bombastic epic that centers around one character and his/her story.

The Jailer was just a macguffin for Sylvanas' arc to center around, which is why his story is so woefully malnourished.

Heck the one difference is we were told about the Jailer ahead of time, which meant he had to be active in the story before the final moments like Sargeras was.

Still remember early Legion where half of WoW thought the climax would be the Tomb and the other half said "But wait, there's Argus."

[crusadernero]

The story makes sense if you assume that it was made as the Sylvanas equivalent of Legion.
A big bombastic epic that centers around one character and his/her story.

The Jailer was just a macguffin for Sylvanas' arc to center around, which is why his story is so woefully malnourished.

So he was just a placeholder so Blizzard could complete Sylvanas arc and reedem her?

- - - Updated - - -

Heck the one difference is we were told about the Jailer ahead of time, which meant he had to be active in the story before the final moments like Sargeras was.

Still remember early Legion where half of WoW thought the climax would be the Tomb and the other half said "But wait, there's Argus."

According to Blizzard the jailer has been part of the story since Warcraft 3. So...

[KainneAbsolute]

In the Cinematic, Denathrius said "there is another way". Maybe Denathrius convinced the Jailer to reach Zereth Mortis? Maybe the Jailer's original plan was different?

WHY HE IS CALLED THE JAILER?

Why Sylvanas said the world is a prison????

[Lahis]

Interesting point of view, but isn't like Wrathion's narrative in MOP but in multiversal level?

Would fit the their current writing competence to recycle that too here.

[Nyel]

N'zoth was killed to make room for the Jailer I should have said.

It's what makes BfA even worse in hindsight, and why it will likely never be topped in terms of atrocious writing. Because while SL is boring and lacking in substance, BfA had an amazing opening hook and then promptly used that hook in awful ways to remove longstanding threats without even figuring out how the pieces fit together, and all to lead to SL.

Legion removed the Burning Legion to let us get back to Azeroth and focus on the Old Gods and the Factions. BfA then butchered the factions and crammed the Old Gods and Naga into it so they could have room for Zovaal, which in SL has now been removed from the plot as well.

So in short the story since Legion has essentially been equivalent to a toddler picking up toys, playing with them for a couple of seconds, then throwing them in the trash before moving onto something else.
Blizzard really needs to sit down and realize that you can play with your toys more than once, and in different ways. You don't have to immediately go to the logical endpoint to be able to move on, it is possible to have a pseudo-ending and put the story on hold.

I think you’re right, but the question then is, why did they want to get rid of an arch villain that’s been slowly build up over a decade and replace him with an Amazon Basics version of a villain that has zero real back story, zero real build up and was then finished within two content patches, leaving no lasting impression on WoW or the lore?

There must have been a mental disconnect for Blizzard‘s writing team when they came up with this story and deemed it good? Or how can this happen?