Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Archmage Xaxxas]

WHY HE IS CALLED THE JAILER?

Because History is Written by the Victors.


That's one of Shadowlands' overarching narratives.

The Primus is "The Jailer" of Zovaal, and so history records this dark deed in the Primus' favor. He ultimately got what he deserves when he was captured and dominated himself.

The real 'villain' of this expack is whoever Ordered the Shadowlands. 'The First Ones.' Whoever created, or decided harnessing Domination magic was a good idea, creating shifty characters like Denathrius and The Primus? That's your villain.

[Polybius]

In the Cinematic, Denathrius said "there is another way". Maybe Denathrius convinced the Jailer to reach Zereth Mortis? Maybe the Jailer's original plan was different?

WHY HE IS CALLED THE JAILER?

Why Sylvanas said the world is a prison????

The guy probably caged souls and drained them to create weapons. Maybe the universe is a prison and something is trying to break in. Not enough answers this expansion.

[Raetary]

WHY HE IS CALLED THE JAILER?

He's not.

His name is Zovaal, "The Jailer" is his title.
Before he was the Jailer, the was the Arbiter.

[Sondrelk]

I think you’re right, but the question then is, why did they want to get rid of an arch villain that’s been slowly build up over a decade and replace him with an Amazon Basics version of a villain that has zero real back story, zero real build up and was then finished within two content patches, leaving no lasting impression on WoW or the lore?

There must have been a mental disconnect for Blizzard‘s writing team when they came up with this story and deemed it good? Or how can this happen?

My guess would be that they wanted to do the whole Shadowlands thing, but didn't just want to set it on Azeroth or generally have lower stakes. They wanted full-on cosmic warfare on the scale of Argus. And since making a brand new villain from scratch is almost impossible if you want it to be important they just went for the "puppet master" archetype.

[bagina]

Why Sylvanas said the world is a prison????

Because it was le epic catchy hook to generate hype. That's the way Blizz write their stories. All hooks and no substance.

[Syegfryed]

I can appreciate none of sylvanus in this cinematic, but holy shit it was still bad.

If wow Thanos had those reasons why along, they could have you know, explained and worked that out across the expansion, so we actually knew him and had reasons to fight him, instead of big bad evil guy doing big bad evil stuff. It make no sense to hold until the very end of the straw to reveal this, now nobody fucking cares, is pointless. They making him a sargeras 2.0(He was trying to do the right thing, by the wrong means ) didn't help either.

But what pisses me of the most is their way of storytelling based around the clifhangers, trying to build hype or i dunno what the fuck they want, such amateur level of writing, it was the same thing before with sylvanus saying "he cant reach the...." and fades out, and now, the fucker drops "for what is to come" and thats it.

[Feitori]

"What is to come" is something even bigger and badder than the Void Lords.

Damn, I hope you're wrong.

"No Blizzard! You're not having another mysterious threat to the universe itself! You haven't even finished your first yet!"

[Vakir]

Because it was le epic catchy hook to generate hype. That's the way Blizz write their stories. All hooks and no substance.

Right here, officer. This guy.

...he's totally right, you may move on.

[Sondrelk]

So he was just a placeholder so Blizzard could complete Sylvanas arc and reedem her?

That is the most logical endpoint as far as I can see. You can't reuse Arthas since that would be nonsensical. Old Gods would work, but would likely be too similar to N'zoth.

Really Blizzards mistake with the Jailer was making him an actual character. Make him more conceptual and less an actual character and the story might have functioned slightly better.

[Dragon ANX]

/S

I know something like that would never happen, but boy... i would really love if 10.0 was "Yeah mate after Sargeras/Argus fight you went into coma for 5 years"

[Sondrelk]

Because it was le epic catchy hook to generate hype. That's the way Blizz write their stories. All hooks and no substance.

I would describe it as spectacle oriented. The important part is making something cool and epic, not something good.

Making something that looks cool is easy, making something that is cool and well written is difficult. It's the problem that has been plagueing mainstream writing lately with the Star Wars sequels and the final season of GoT.

[crusadernero]

/S

I know something like that would never happen, but boy... i would really love if 10.0 was "Yeah mate after Sargeras/Argus fight you went into coma for 5 years"

sure why not? We already have done timetravveling xpacs!

[KainneAbsolute]

The guy probably caged souls and drained them to create weapons. Maybe the universe is a prison and something is trying to break in. Not enough answers this expansion.

Maybe Zovaal was the warden of something. Maybe there is something in the Maw that should not come in contact with Azeroth. At the same time, Azeroth is trapped in the physical universe.
--------------------------------------

At this rate, it seems that:
- Sargeras is in prison.
- Azshara is missing in action.
- Nzoth and the other old god are destroyed?
- I guess that Zovaal can be turned on again hahah

I think we are going to ally with all the villains in the future to face the true enemy.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

I have to wonder how the reaction would be if instead, it was Sargeras who employs the Nathrezim and leads Zovaal astray, creating the Jailer.

It would make Shadowlands even more of a logical continuation after Legion, with Sargeras' final words being "No!" to us after being told his Crusade was over.
Zovaal could have been a final measure on his part. A hail mary he knew would persist even if somehow he was defeated or the Void was winning.


Part of me is still thinking this has to be the reality. There's just no way to me that The Titans were so oblivious to what Souls are, where they come from and where they go, when their whole thing is waking World Souls.

Aman'thul had mastery over Time. So surely they would have been able to see into the future and know of Zovaal's plans at the very least?

But that's way too much hope.

[Khaza-R]

In the Cinematic, Denathrius said "there is another way". Maybe Denathrius convinced the Jailer to reach Zereth Mortis? Maybe the Jailer's original plan was different?

I think we are meant to take the whole line together. I think he's basically saying he's slighted that Zovaal didn't include him in his schemes.

[Syegfryed]

Maybe Zovaal was the warden of something. Maybe there is something in the Maw that should not come in contact with Azeroth. At the same time, Azeroth is trapped in the physical universe.
--------------------------------------

At this rate, it seems the
- Sargeras is in prison.
- Azshara is missing in action.
- Nzoth and the other old god are destroyed?
- I guess that Zovaal can be turned on again hahah

I think we are going to ally with all the villains in the future to face the true enemy.

its the dragonball arc that we got old villains to fight in the tournament, lmao, how low we have fallen

[Hitei]

I have to wonder how the reaction would be if instead, it was Sargeras who employs the Nathrezim and leads Zovaal astray, creating the Jailer.

It would make Shadowlands even more of a logical continuation after Legion, with Sargeras' final words being "No!" to us after being told his Crusade was over.
Zovaal could have been a final measure on his part. A hail mary he knew would persist even if somehow he was defeated or the Void was winning.


Part of me is still thinking this has to be the reality. There's just no way to me that The Titans were so oblivious to what Souls are, where they come from and where they go, when their whole thing is waking World Souls.

But that's way too much hope.

Why would they know anything about it? "world souls" is just the name, it's not like they have some special insight into souls in general. Their whole thing is finding titan eggs and terraforming planets to their own liking.

The titans weren't even aware the Void was hanging out trying to break into their reality to consume everything by creating a void titan, why would they know all about the death end of the cosmic forces?

[KainneAbsolute]

its the dragonball arc that we got old villains to fight in the tournament, lmao, how low we have fallen

From Game of Thrones to Dragon Ball!

[Polybius]

Maybe Zovaal was the warden of something. Maybe there is something in the Maw that should not come in contact with Azeroth. At the same time, Azeroth is trapped in the physical universe.
--------------------------------------

At this rate, it seems that:
- Sargeras is in prison.
- Azshara is missing in action.
- Nzoth and the other old god are destroyed?
- I guess that Zovaal can be turned on again hahah

I think we are going to ally with all the villains in the future to face the true enemy.

And then we’ll ally with the true enemy to defeat the truer enemy. I will shelf the game if this happens (doubtful, unless the writers are stupid). I can do one other layer of power but not more.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Why would they know anything about it? "world souls" is just the name, it's not like they have some special insight into souls in general. Their whole thing is finding titan eggs and terraforming planets to their own liking.

The titans weren't even aware the Void was hanging out trying to break into their reality to consume everything by creating a void titan, why would they know all about the death end of the cosmic forces?

Because Norgannon the Dreamweaver casts a spell to save the fragments of their Souls upon Sargeras' annihilating them.

Edit: and don't the Titans/Keepers create ensouled beings with The Forge of Wills?

and in the edit I made during your quoting, Aman'thul with mastery of Time, should be aware of the future including Zovaal's actions that threaten Azeroth.


It's even said that "Time is not a construct of Death", so isn't Reality (where Time does exist) > Shadowlands in terms of "Real-Time' awareness/events? What happens in reality has to happen first to dictate anything happening in the Shadowlands?

ie. A person has to die in reality-time for a Soul to go to the Shadowlands non-time.