Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lahis]

People calling WoD good lmao.

This thread has jumped the shark.

It is all relative.

Compared to MoP or Legion WoD is terrible, pronounced even more by being sandwitched between them. But compared to SL? It doesn't look so bad anymore.

[SR84]

Yeah we learned about this already through the Cypher. To oversimplify it: there were two powers.. and one became 6 (the ones we know) Also there's a reference to some power that makes shadow want the aid of the light it despised.. So we already know there's some ultimate bad that our reality (and the six forces) are in opposition to. It's like there was Alpha and Omega... and then Alpha split itself into Light, Order, Shadow, Life, Death, and Chaos.. possibly to create a nexus, Reality, so it could birth more beings like itself (Alpha-like beings...Us.. who are capable of wielding the 6 powers) so we can help fight off Omega.

[Teriz]

I'll just say that if they do another cosmic expansion right after Shadowlands, they're going to lose a lot of players.

[Super Dickmann]

Gameplay-wise or in terms of amounts of content WoD is worse and to argue the latter especially is contrarian retardation, but in terms of lore I've no idea what the pro-SL argument would even look like unless you just really happen to hate brown orcs or something.

[AngerFork]

Between the two, I absolutely preferred WoD to SL for a multitude of reasons. I suppose the main lore argument I could see SL having over WoD is that the setting was a lot more confusing in WoD. SL we at least understood how & when the expansion started. WoD on the other hand was confusing for an initial setting where it was Draenor, but in the past 30 years, but not the Draenor we actually knew, but one that was close enough that a Bronze Dragon thought it would fit. Plus, it got weird when we had characters dying which seemed emotional at the time, but then wasn't when you realized you had a spare Velen left back on Azeroth.

[Vakir]

WoD was bland and inoffensive in terms of lore.

SL is the definition of offensive.

[Kiivar86]

WoD is worse for me solely because of the absolutely wretched "Draenor is free!" from Grom. I still can't get over that.

[Nyel]

It is all relative.

Compared to MoP or Legion WoD is terrible, pronounced even more by being sandwitched between them. But compared to SL? It doesn't look so bad anymore.

From a story / lore point of view. We're not talking about content etc. Shadowlands from a story / lore pov is just outright terrible and damaging to the Warcraft brand whereas WoDs damage to Warcraft was little, because it did not took place in "our" universe.

[Sondrelk]

WoD is worse for me solely because of the absolutely wretched "Draenor is free!" from Grom. I still can't get over that.

It was bad, horrible even. But once it was said the story was essentially done, and since there was no reason to assume the alternate Draenor would ever be relevant again it was as substantive as being annoyed your dog ate the last piece of your sandwich. Yes it's annoying and you would really rather the dog didnt take your food, but it's also just a sandwich, not prime beef.

BfA in comparision is far worse, because that expansion took only the most choice cuts of narrative and completely stomped on them, both ruining it for those that has waited, and ensuring that it would probably never get the treatment it deserved.

[Arcinatoss]

man, I hoped I was gonna feel relief knowing "wait and see" the expansion is finally over but it just made me worried 10.0 is somehow gonna be worse lol.

[Nyel]

WoD was bland and inoffensive in terms of lore.

SL is the definition of offensive.

Yeah it's exactly this why we complain.

You can ignore WoD lore for the overall picture.

You cannot ignore Shadowlands lore.

[Myradin]

man, I hoped I was gonna feel relief knowing "wait and see" the expansion is finally over but it just made me worried 10.0 is somehow gonna be worse lol.

The jailer was literally trying to save us from next expansion. It is what is to come after all.

[Sondrelk]

It's really not that serious. It could be better but what's there is pretty par for the course for how Blizzard tells stories. It's not like some new revelation that they only know how to tell pulpy dumb fun.

The writers do show their skills when they write smaller stuff that doesnt have to fit as snugly into the grander story. The levelling in Ardenweald is a good example, as it manages to be quite effective despite it's limitations, and the reason I would imagine is that it doesnt have to consider much of the lore that has come before, or build up to much at all after, it can just be a small bite-sized chunk of writing.
It's when the writers are called upon to write bigger epics that build on potentially years of lore that they falter, which as I have said before I think is less to do with them as writers, and more to do with how difficult it is to build ontop of shaky lore while already standing on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah it's exactly this why we complain.

You can ignore WoD lore for the overall picture.

You cannot ignore Shadowlands lore.

I dunno, I think you might be able to ignore most of Shadowlands once it's done. Demystifying death is definitely a blow to the writing, but things like Sylvanas being stuck in the Maw instead of obliterated is hardly going to be worth considering uness they bring her back, same with Pelagos being the Arbiter.

[Dragon ANX]

The jailer was literally trying to save us from next expansion. It is what is to come after all.

Here for you ==>

The Foruns Divided are not prepared for what is to come 19 April

[AngerFork]

Yeah it's exactly this why we complain.

You can ignore WoD lore for the overall picture.

You cannot ignore Shadowlands lore.

Exactly this. WoD was essentially harmless fan fiction that eventually gave us the trigger for Legion. Shadowlands took already established lore that was well designed and generally beloved by the community & repeatedly beat it down, watering down understandable hard decisions for a monster who never fully revealed their motivations.

[Gloriandus]

Honestly, despite the grand disappointment, I am waffled that Rygelon was just another boss; no use of the Forge of Afterlives, no "come to" moment where he helps out against Zovaal. And how did the beam get from Torghast to Zereth Mortis? ZM isn't connected to Torghast afaik, unless I missed something.

[Gloriandus]

Maybe if they didn't tie themselves to this "must have new expansion every 2 years" thing, they could have breathing room to flesh things out. I know that's a "top down" edict probably, but the time crunch ultimately leads to just as much (or more) lost business than a "long" expansion would.

[Dracullus]

Yeah it's exactly this why we complain.

You can ignore WoD lore for the overall picture.

You cannot ignore Shadowlands lore.

They can and they will. I'm starting to believe that SL story is really just Danuser moping after Afrasabi. 9.1 and 9.2 feel like speedrun to deal with Jailer and SL forever. Jailer made 0 impact to story during his fight and people won't ask "what about Arthas, is he still in Maw?" anymore. SL will become another weird chapter in WoW story just like WoD.

And some people are trying to prove WoD was better comparing 6.0 to whole SL. In WoW story always is decent in X.0 (dare to say some parts like Suramar, Zuldazar, Revendreth even really good). In patches it always go to shit and we have to fill gaps in logic. Yes, including Legion, after Nighthold it had some epic moments (something they failed to deliver in 8.1-8.3 and 9.1-9.2), but story was barebones just like now.

[AngerFork]

And some people are trying to prove WoD was better comparing 6.0 to whole SL. In WoW story always is decent in X.0 (dare to say some parts like Suramar, Zuldazar, Revendreth even really good). In patches it always go to shit and we have to fill gaps in logic. Yes, including Legion, after Nighthold it had some epic moments (something they failed to deliver in 8.1-8.3 and 9.1-9.2), but story was barebones just like now.

Barebones? I have a hard time looking at our visit to Argus where we learned more about the Krokul & the past of the Draenei while simultaneously discovering the nature of the Legion's quick demonic revivals as barebones lore.

[Arcinatoss]

The jailer was literally trying to save us from next expansion. It is what is to come after all.

maybe he forgot his own goal while he was imprisoned so he just decided to dominate people until he figured it out again.