Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

This is the perfect way to reconcile Shadowlands lore with the Chronicles.

What are you reconciling? All this does is add weirdness.

[Nyel]

Sargeras didn't create Demons, nor Fel, nor the Twisting Nether (realm of the Demons). All he did was give order to that which was chaotic.

Do you know how Amon (fallen Xel'naga) created the Void and all those creatures of the Void? And how he somehow became one with the Void? He was the Void itself?

What I'm saying is exactly this. Someone must have created the Void Lords; an evil First One could have created the Void and its Lords as a force to devour the Cosmos and remake the flawed reality of his brethren. And in the process of doing this, he somehow became the Void itself.

People here said there is a Zereth for the Void? So a facility that churns out Void Lords? What if the evil First One created this facility in secret? Like Sauron with the One Ring.

This is the perfect way to reconcile Shadowlands lore with the Chronicles.

An evil First One that turned against his own is the same as an evil Titan that turned against his own. There's no difference. Creating the Void, creating the Burning Legion, what you describe is 100% Sargeras.

[huth]

The 7th Force could be a First One who went rogue. The first Void Lord and progenitor of the Void.

The main villain of Starcraft is Amon, a rogue Xel'naga who went rogue and became one with the Void. Essentially becoming a Void Lord. The climax/ending of Starcraft took place inside the Void itself. Blizzard likes to recycle their stories.

So the ultimate villain could be a Void Lord. But because that Void Lord is a rogue First One, it is seen as a 7th Force.

That would make the Void the 7th force, which is obviously incorrect. It could still be a rogue First One or the First Ones that created the universe could be the rogues/rebels, though.

- - - Updated - - -

World of Warcraft: Attack of the undead dragon gnomes

I know i would play it.

New class: Ninja Pirate Tinker

[Fahrad Wagner]

The 7th Force could be a First One who went rogue. The first Void Lord and progenitor of the Void.

The main villain of Starcraft is Amon, a rogue Xel'naga who went rogue and became one with the Void. Essentially becoming a Void Lord. The climax/ending of Starcraft took place inside the Void itself. Blizzard likes to recycle their stories.

So the ultimate villain could be a Void Lord. But because that Void Lord is a rogue First One, it is seen as a 7th Force.

I think it's pretty clear whoever was referred to by the Jailer isn't a Void Lord, otherwise they would have been more heavy about it as the Void Lords have already been established. This points to something else, bigger, outside of the six cosmic forces.

[Skildar]

For me, Shadowlands is the worst expansion ever. Let me explain. I mainly play WoW for its story and its characters, and while the narrative devices and lore inconsistencies of this game have always left a lot to be desired, in BfA and especially in Shadowlands, the new levels of incompetence that they have achieved regarding lore is unbelievable.

The story, and especially, the way in which the story is told, is utterly shit, is just SO, SO bad, that It kills my will to play the game. I am just not interested anymore. I keep following the story because I LOVE the game and its universe, and I always watch the cinematics in the hope of some kind of explanation, some justification, some development, SOMETHING.

But no. Nothing.

The worst thing is that I can dig (another) shitty story. But Shadowlands is not just another shitty story, it has completely destroyed the previous lore. Practically everything that has happened was Zooval's doing. The evil mastermind of who we still know nothing. Never a villain has had so little development.

And all this disaster for what? Just to established a even bigger cosmic threath? An even bigger power which is so powerful just because we are beating beings so beyond our reach that Blizzard wants to keep the ball rolling.

I really thought that they will use Shadowlands to make a soft reset of the game, both regarding lore and systems. But it seems that they are doubling down in this path to irrelevance.

10.0 really needs to be different. It cannot be just a good expansion with the same systems. They have to make BIG changes, and please, tell a decent story, just a decent one.

so basically, you've stopped playing the game and experiencing the story the way the game delivers it and now you're following only cinematics (a hundredth of the story piece) and feels like story telling is weak.

Well I wouldn't expect to enjoy anything if you consume it the way you do

[crusadernero]

For me, Shadowlands is the worst expansion ever. Let me explain. I mainly play WoW for its story and its characters, and while the narrative devices and lore inconsistencies of this game have always left a lot to be desired, in BfA and especially in Shadowlands, the new levels of incompetence that they have achieved regarding lore is unbelievable.

The story, and especially, the way in which the story is told, is utterly shit, is just SO, SO bad, that It kills my will to play the game. I am just not interested anymore. I keep following the story because I LOVE the game and its universe, and I always watch the cinematics in the hope of some kind of explanation, some justification, some development, SOMETHING.

But no. Nothing.

The worst thing is that I can dig (another) shitty story. But Shadowlands is not just another shitty story, it has completely destroyed the previous lore. Practically everything that has happened was Zooval's doing. The evil mastermind of who we still know nothing. Never a villain has had so little development.

And all this disaster for what? Just to established a even bigger cosmic threath? An even bigger power which is so powerful just because we are beating beings so beyond our reach that Blizzard wants to keep the ball rolling.

I really thought that they will use Shadowlands to make a soft reset of the game, both regarding lore and systems. But it seems that they are doubling down in this path to irrelevance.

10.0 really needs to be different. It cannot be just a good expansion with the same systems. They have to make BIG changes, and please, tell a decent story, just a decent one.

Yep. Not only was most of the SL story(that was new) overall bad, they managed to literally ruin 20 years of warcraft lore/Story. They dragged Arthas & LK through the dirt. they dragged the Warcraft RTS story through the dirt. They took a huge dump on all of it while creating nothing cool.

One would imagine if this was 20 fucking years in the making it would end in a much bigger way. But nah, players kill him in a fight that is quite standard(boring) and the cinematic is nothing but a slap in the face of the playerbase.

Literally NOTHING makes sense of whole of SL. Nothing. Squat. THeres not one thing here to grasp onto. If they are pushing some new SuperBadHorribleCosmos villain for 10.0, it will be just more of the same. New enemy with a grand plan that we know next to nothing about.

Now, there probably some bighead lorenerds out there connection the 3 million threads so they can make sense of it all, but that doesnt matter. The overall perception of the playerbase is "what the fuck is going on here?" and that sentiment has lasted a long time. We are reaching the point were most people dont give a shit.

- - - Updated - - -

so basically, you've stopped playing the game and experiencing the story the way the game delivers it and now you're following only cinematics (a hundredth of the story piece) and feels like story telling is weak.

Well I wouldn't expect to enjoy anything if you consume it the way you do

But it is weak, playing the game or not. I've gone through literally every quest in SL up to this point and its nothing satisfying about it. Theres plenty of loose ends riddled all over SL and the ending of this xpac is "what is to come". WHAT? WHAT IS TO COME? What was your plan? WTF is going on?

Teasing and dropping subtle hints is a good options now and again, but thats literally the only thing Blizzard does. We never get closure, we never get to really know. Nothing really ends and the things that do end suck. Remember that the end of SL is literally the ending arch of 20 year of warcraft story.

[ExiHext]

I think it's pretty clear whoever was referred to by the Jailer isn't a Void Lord, otherwise they would have been more heavy about it as the Void Lords have already been established. This points to something else, bigger, outside of the six cosmic forces.

But...but..then it wouldn''t have something to do with void elves or Alleria. How dare you?

[micwini]

The 7th Force could be a First One who went rogue. The first Void Lord and progenitor of the Void.

The main villain of Starcraft is Amon, a rogue Xel'naga who went rogue and became one with the Void. Essentially becoming a Void Lord. The climax/ending of Starcraft took place inside the Void itself. Blizzard likes to recycle their stories.

So the ultimate villain could be a Void Lord. But because that Void Lord is a rogue First One, it is seen as a 7th Force.

My bet is that the 7th force is Time. Void is already its own force. But I do think Void is the one they refer to when the OG's talked about "six seats, one will consume all others".

[Nyel]

My bet is that the 7th force is Time. Void is already its own force. But I do think Void is the one they refer to when the OG's talked about "six seats, one will consume all others".

This could mean that there are six seats, but one (seventh) will consume all others. In that context it isn't really clear if one is part of the six or not.

[Raetary]

My bet is that the 7th force is Time. Void is already its own force. But I do think Void is the one they refer to when the OG's talked about "six seats, one will consume all others".

Time is part of order though.

[micwini]

Time is part of order though.

Is it? Multiple timelines (which exist in the lore; See WoD) sounds pretty chaotic to me. Any source that states Time is part of order?
titans even made the bronzies to guard the "one true timeline", insinuating that time is not inherently part of the Order force.

[Teriz]

Literally NOTHING makes sense of whole of SL. Nothing. Squat. THeres not one thing here to grasp onto. If they are pushing some new SuperBadHorribleCosmos villain for 10.0, it will be just more of the same. New enemy with a grand plan that we know next to nothing about.

Now, there probably some bighead lorenerds out there connection the 3 million threads so they can make sense of it all, but that doesnt matter. The overall perception of the playerbase is "what the fuck is going on here?" and that sentiment has lasted a long time. We are reaching the point were most people dont give a shit.

You’re right. It’s really just too much. When we’re talking about defeating forces of the cosmos with swords and arrows, we’ve jumped the shark several times over.

[micwini]

You’re right. It’s really just too much. When we’re talking about defeating forces of the cosmos with swords and arrows, we’ve jumped the shark several times over.

So you're saying that the only way to defeat the cosmos is with advanced machinery? Tinkers confirmed.

[Skildar]

Remember that the end of SL is literally the ending arch of 20 year of warcraft story.

I haven't had a chance to do the fight so I can't say anything about it yet. Though the whole storyquests, the zones and the jailer personal story insert themselves quite well with what has moved the warcraft 3 + wow wotlk.
I'm not an expert on every lore bits, so there are for sure some details that might get broken by the existence of these new characters. But nothing so bug that it becomes ridiculous or breaks the immersion

[Darkarath]

so basically, you've stopped playing the game and experiencing the story the way the game delivers it and now you're following only cinematics (a hundredth of the story piece) and feels like story telling is weak.

Well I wouldn't expect to enjoy anything if you consume it the way you do

I have not played since 9.1. Not that I need to play the game to follow the story, though, plenty of ways to do that.

[Marlamin]

So this wowdev3 is rather not for Wrath, right? I was wondering if it could be some kind of public demo since there is no Blizzcon, some sample of 10.0 zone/dungeon based on 9.2 build/classes.

It still could be used for pretty much anything in the future, but it's probably not Wrath currently unless they're actively hiding it behind retail patch versions.

[Fahrad Wagner]

But...but..then it wouldn''t have something to do with void elves or Alleria. How dare you?

Hehe, cheeky.

hey anyone notice the new buildings in eastern kingdoms? all emtpy of npcs but have names in files. Elwyn forest Westfall and Duskwood all have at least one

Do you mind giving us a link/reference to that dear? Is this the same as those human buildings which were datamined a while back?

[crusadernero]

I haven't had a chance to do the fight so I can't say anything about it yet. Though the whole storyquests, the zones and the jailer personal story insert themselves quite well with what has moved the warcraft 3 + wow wotlk.
I'm not an expert on every lore bits, so there are for sure some details that might get broken by the existence of these new characters. But nothing so bug that it becomes ridiculous or breaks the immersion

There are lots of story elements in SL that are completly left in the air. The overarching ending of SL didnt even gave us anything.

[huth]

I have not played since 9.1. Not that I need to play the game to follow the story, though, plenty of ways to do that.

An easy way to miss more than a few clues, however. Second hand reports are never as accurate as first hand observations.

- - - Updated - - -

It still could be used for pretty much anything in the future, but it's probably not Wrath currently unless they're actively hiding it behind retail patch versions.

Looks like right now it's just for typoing version numbers. Which is weirding me out, because i wouldn't expect those to be handwritten to begin with...

[Darkarath]

An easy way to miss more than a few clues, however. Second hand reports are never as accurate as first hand observations.

Not really. I read every Warcraft book and every Wowhead lore article. Plus Bellular lore videos which honestly, is a better way of keep up with the story than playing the game itself.

There is no defending Shadowlands lore. I knew from the start that going to the realm of death was a bad idea, because so many questions will be unanswered and so many things could have important ramifications. But they fuck up everything before Shadowlands for a presumable even stronger villain of which we have only read vague references in books both outside and inside WoW.

Wonderful way of telling a story.