Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Pelagos' story is not over.

The Golden One claims a vacant throne. The crown of Light will bring only Darkness.

Pelagos is likely to become a villain and we'll go back to Shadowlands eventually to put him down like his predecessor.

This still could be edit: Turalyon, sorry, not Uther. I hope we'll never, ever get back into the Shadowlands. I'd rather visit Draenor again than.

[Lahis]

[Nyel]

play the quests and you will find the answers...

They don't answer anything. Blizzard made Shadowlands SO HUGE that some quests saying "everything is fine now" don't fix the apparent plot holes and cracks in the lore. It worked in WoD because nothing mattered. But Shadowlands is the entire afterlife of Warcraft. You can't introduce that in one expansion and gloss over all of the missing plots and glaring plot holes with a nice little "they lived happily ever after".

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Still pisses me off what they did with Bolvar this expansion, they said for everyone to hear he was going to be a important and key character in this expansion, feature him left and right in the marketing, and he is simple ignored the rest of the expansion, especially bullshit after they ruining him in the cinematic, guess his time was cut short to have more Sylvanus and Anduin time.

I mean Bolvar was even in the expansion announcement cinematic and he was the most pathetic and useless NPC in the entire expansion.

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What about them? Kael'thas will likely continue with his service in Revendreth (we know that it can take centuries), Draka and Vashj are ensconced with Maldraxxus and Uther's back with the Kyrian.

What else needs to be done about them?

They are household names. Mostly beloved by fans. Were they just brought back for some flashy quests and interactions and that's about it? It just feels wrong on so many levels.

[Sondrelk]

I worry that the playerbase would get too dilluted if they go with a classic version of every expansion. Every cata and up private server are extremely low pop while the vanilla-wotlk servers have thousands of players on them.

It's more a question of why WotLK should get a classic version, but other beloved expansions like MoP shouldn't.
The easy solution is that you didn't need Classic beyond Vanilla, but now that genie is out of the bag.

[Dracullus]

It's more a question of why WotLK should get a classic version, but other beloved expansions like MoP shouldn't.
The easy solution is that you didn't need Classic beyond Vanilla, but now that genie is out of the bag.

Because Blizzard, Activision and Microsoft are known for hating easy money, duh.

[Super Dickmann]

It's more a question of why WotLK should get a classic version, but other beloved expansions like MoP shouldn't.
The easy solution is that you didn't need Classic beyond Vanilla, but now that genie is out of the bag.

Cataclysm is the biggest stumbling block for the classic re-releases. Its endgame content is simply not very good and there's less of it than there is of Shadowlands whereas its revamp feature is completely available in the retail game. Mists is a lot more distinct in class design and daily work and has content, but lacks the nostalgia bucks Wrath can bring in.

They are household names. Mostly beloved by fans. Were they just brought back for some flashy quests and interactions and that's about it? It just feels wrong on so many levels.

Last time they got brought in it was as loot pinatas in one-off raids, I've no idea why you write as though we're in some unprecedented territory either in terms of leaving loose plot threads, of which there are very few or in terms of character beats. They got brought in to tell their specific storybeats and give you an idea of what they'll be doing going forward. Their arcs were resolved. Vashj avenged her house and became Margrave. Kael overcame his hubris and went on the way to becoming a better person, etc. etc. You can argue about the quality of those stories, I personally don't care about either all that much, but they've got very clear start and end points.

[Grimbold21]

We should go back to Defias level conspiracies, or how Onyxia was puppetering SW's nobility around.

[Vakir]

This won't happen, but if we're ever so unlucky that it does, here's to hoping there's a better VA next time, like Microsoft Sam.

"Golly gee, Mr. Stark Kleia, I sure am conflicted and timid. W-wait for me, uwu!"

In any event, he's not becoming a villain for extremely apparent reasons that we aren't allowed to talk about.

The golden one whisper can be applied to any number of things that have happened or are yet to happen because constructing your story around vague portents is a dead end and reinforces the community to get invested in the shit mystery box style that got us here. Then everyone is confused and upset why they keep doing the "wait and see" when those same people keep buying into it.

[Super Dickmann]

The golden one whisper can be applied to any number of things that have happened or are yet to happen because constructing your story around vague portents is a dead end and reinforces the community to get invested in the shit mystery box style that got us here. Then everyone is confused and upset why they keep doing the "wait and see" when those same people keep buying into it.

J.J.Abrams's Ted Talk and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Santandame]

Sounds awful tbh

As does another Shadowlands scoped plot.

[Vakir]

J.J.Abrams's Ted Talk and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

I personally want a mashup of it and either the Oprah bees gif or Bill Gates' actual mosquito release TED Talk so we can all finally agree what's in the box and can all agree that the box is painful and unpleasant.

I know it's not really constructive and highly speculation based, but this is where my cynicism surrounding MMOs as a construct and most of their stories returns. The long form nature and ungodly complex development pipeline means it's incredibly difficult to create enduring stories that have legit planning behind them on the level of the impression they want to give.

So "wait and see" just directly benefits as the only thing that needs to stay with only a vague outline because its the most base simple way to keep people invested to show there's engagement metrics.

I share your POV now that the people writing are hacks and not malicious or calculating about this stuff, but I really do believe them stringing everyone along at this point is a choice and not just them being poor at pacing. Whether willingly or not, they're writing around marketing, not satisfaction.

Sounds awful tbh

How can a style or scope of story sound awful? It's a broad umbrella. I don't think they literally meant do those stories again, the point is going back to something smaller, grounded, and self contained.

[Tiradon]

9.2.5 and pre-orders will very likely be linked, question is: are we getting 9.2.5 as soon as pre-orders release, or are we getting 9.2.5 PTR at that time.

Great question, let's see how the next couple of weeks will go!

[Super Dickmann]

I share your POV now that the people writing are hacks and not malicious or calculating about this stuff, but I really do believe them stringing everyone along at this point is a choice and not just them being poor at pacing. Whether willingly or not, they're writing around marketing, not satisfaction.

I maintain, like you point out, that they're simply shit at their job and have been zombified by watching too much Mystery Box TV and have attempted to transplant an incompatible form of storytelling to the medium, which is how we reach what I hope is the nadir, but know won't be. I.e, where you can't have a plot as basic as "Robot Satan wants to kill everyone" without having to play coy for 99% of the runtime as to whether that's what he really intends or whether Robot Satan might not actually have some valid points about the tax code.

[Alanar]

The jailer was literally trying to save us from next expansion. It is what is to come after all.

As always..

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It will happen. Unfortunately I have read and reread the whisper many times, and my mind cannot fathom any other candidate other than Pelagos. Truly I can't think of anyone else who could fit the whisper.

Especially after Ion stated that, if they ever explore Alliance drama, they'll focus on Genn Greymane King of the Worgen, and not Turalyon

Its turalyon...your bias makes you not say him. Pelegos will be forgotten like most of shadowlands.

[Vakir]

I maintain, like you point out, that they're simply shit at their job and have been zombified by watching too much Mystery Box TV and have attempted to transplant an incompatible form of storytelling to the medium, which is how we reach what I hope is the nadir, but know won't be. I.e, where you can't have a plot as basic as "Robot Satan wants to kill everyone" without having to play coy for 99% of the runtime as to whether that's what he really intends or whether Robot Satan might not actually have some valid points about the tax code.

Maybe. Part of it might be colored by how I've been conditioned to this shit with (bad) pro wrestling as well. A similar range of wait and see tactics that are placed just to stir shock for a week's worth of ratings or "engagement" or so before unceremoniously dropped or to be completely warped with no passing semblance to what was introduced. That or stretching something over 3 months with no endgame plan. Granted, they have backstage politics fucking with things that the writer's room here seemingly does not...although if the Afrasiabi drama is true, maybe they do.

I dunno. I'd love to see them just sit down and have a normal conversation with the Nobbel and the...dare I say... Pyromancer types. No pre-written bites, no canned responses, no "worries about spoiling future story beats," just a functional conversation about "here's what we're aiming for in terms of tone, style, themes. Here's a general idea of where we're going without giving you a summary. Let's talk about the perceived dissonance and frustration of the community without falling back on making it about character actions and more about the actual quality of writing."

Say what you want about Metzen, and he had tons of problems, but he always actually said something about the intent of the general direction of the story and what the aim of the narrative was. "When we go to Outland, we're running into people that have gone mad stuck beyond the portal, like in Apocalypse Now." "We lost part of ourselves out there in the snow of Northrend, part of us isn't coming back in Cataclysm." Statements that give a general overview of the vibe and a sense of direction.

Every stupid mainstream article mentioning Sylvanas or something of the like always falls back on "she's done naughty things and people are in a frenzy! Christie Golden is excited!" and it absolutely never addresses the actual fan narrative happening that people are reacting to regarding consistency of motivation, double standards, internal narrative logic, etc.

[Kiivar86]

They are household names. Mostly beloved by fans. Were they just brought back for some flashy quests and interactions and that's about it? It just feels wrong on so many levels.

I mean, yeah? That was the point of course. Its a few familiar names we can interact with and do the whole Leonardo Dicaprio pointing thing.

Kael'thas actually got a fair amount of attention too, and he's on his way to rehabilitation. A bit, anyway.

[Grimbold21]

Sounds awful tbh

Intergalactic narratives where beings of untold power are scheming agaisnt one another, using the heroes' world as the ring sounds distant, disconnected and unfamiliar. Not only that, but the heroes are guaranteed to always find an edge with which to undermine such beings. Beings, by the way, that are who knows how old and immensely powerful, but somehow managed to get upstaged by the equivalent of ants, because of.... special - borrowed - powers.

Well, except Zovaal. In his case, we just showed and beat him

Not to mention that the wider the expanse in which the story takes place, the more probable plotholes are. Here we have Zovaal, who was apparently a master manipulator, moving pieces here and there to his benefit, and in turn he gets squashed by the little guy. Also, the new Lich King, who we can only assume reigned over the entirety of Icecrown Citadel, apparently was unaware that he had a soul sucking mechanism underneath his throne.

But I guess Zovaal just planted a fail safe mechanism in the Crown to keep him blind *shrugh*

You know what we are? Or might eventually become? WoW's equivalent of Diablo's Nephalem.

[Super Dickmann]

Every stupid mainstream article mentioning Sylvanas or something of the like always falls back on "she's done naughty things and people are in a frenzy! Christie Golden is excited!" and it absolutely never addresses the actual fan narrative happening that people are reacting to regarding consistency of motivation, double standards, internal narrative logic, etc.

This is one thing the story would badly benefit from but will never do because of the internalized 'no negativity in the Dojo' mentality. The writing staff aren't intentionally telling a poor story, be it Afrasiabi's Sadfang Chronicle or Danuser's Gray Waifu Rehabilitation Tour, but they are inured to speaking of it only from their own perspective. What would give them an enormous amount of credibility back would be if they produced an autopsy report the way the League of legends team where they outright admit they fucked up, what they were trying to do and what did and didn't work. But this won't happen.

[Hyrja]

Pelagos' story is not over.

The Golden One claims a vacant throne. The crown of Light will bring only Darkness.

Pelagos is likely to become a villain and we'll go back to Shadowlands eventually to put him down like his predecessor.

This is about Turalyon.. not pelagos.

[Alanar]

*facepalm*



We haven't been to the Emerald Dream either, just bits and pieces of it.



Xavius? Barely a pawn... you can't tell me he's the Big Bad of the Life cosmic force.
N'zoth, Azshara and the Black Empire have nothing to do with the Dream, so i don't know why you even bring them up.



Dude, you liking it has nothing to do with its porbability. I don't need to provide you with anything. If you can't see Blizzard coming up with an ED expansion, like they did with Shadowlands, that's your problem. As it stands, the Emerald Dream and the Life cosmic force have not been throroughly explored.



The only argument you have provided so far is "i don't like it. I think it's boring". Which is not much of an argument to begin with.

Look my dude.. you respond with 2 sentences, I already put more effort in one post alone and you come with you have yet to give an argument. Go back.. read the post and respond to that and not some vague response with trust me bro I am right. No you are not. I already gave you enough pointers and you refuse to respond to that.

I even agreed with you on the building part, but ofc you didnt read that. I am not interested in the ED, because the charm is gone and the threat has been dealt with. New threats can rise, but please learn to understand that takea time to build and for people to care. Northend isnt shadowlands and outland isnt broken isle or argus. Those forces werent dealt with completely compared to the nightmare and whole that.
So your comparison is not even relevant.

Not into your hatefull way of discussing anything and it IS a circle conversation, which I already knew it was going to happen. Not into that, so I am out anyway.

Moving on.