Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Chickat]

Can we know what's the BS part?

Guessing the Class part is fake.

[Ersula]

The Lich King/Death Knights/Northrend
Chen Stormstout/Monks/Pandaria
Illidan Stormrage/Demon Hunters/Broken Isles

We don’t have that with Bards.

Unless the theme is "Classic RPG" which is a theme they've expressed a desire to return to.

[Hitei]

It was made in Photoshop. Ok, so I used the classic vanilla logo as the reference point for the border and Shadowlands' logo for the "WoW" text (tweaked the colors etc). I handpainted the border, some parts are inspired by a Naaru but the rest I just winged. The starry background is just a photo of the sky.

Despite finding that hilarious and feeling vindicated, I'm gonna be the one to ask for actual hard evidence, since anyone could claim to have been the one behind a leak and that it's fake.

Do you have the higher res version? or the PSD?

[Teriz]

Unless the theme is "Classic RPG" which is a theme they've expressed a desire to return to.

Bards in classic RPGs are buff bots whose sole purpose is to support and buff groups. That’s a play style Blizzard incorporated into the Shaman and Paladin classes in early WoW and largely abandoned by WotLK, instead pushing the Trinity, and “bring the player and not the class”. So, we can add an incompatible playstyle to the list of why Bards are an unlikely WoW class.

+Lack of a hero character
+Lack of a location
+Lack of unique abilities
+Lack of a relevant play style

[The Stormbringer]

A month and five days left. Woo.

[Ersula]

Bards in classic RPGs are buff bots whose sole purpose is to support and buff groups. That’s a play style Blizzard incorporated into the Shaman and Paladin classes in early WoW and largely abandoned by WotLK, instead pushing the Trinity, and “bring the player and not the class”. So, we can add an incompatible playstyle to the list of why Bards are an unlikely WoW class.

If Bard & Dancer can work in FFXIV it can work in WoW

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

Those who don't think you can fight with music have clearly never heard of the famous bard duo, Tenacious D.

[Teriz]

If Bard & Dancer can work in FFXIV it can work in WoW

Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.

[Ersula]

Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.

When I explain how it works mechanically, you say it doesn't work conceptually. When I explain how it works conceptually you say it doesn't work mechanically. You just keep pointing at specific Warcraft NPC with an instrument & saying "that isn't warcraft" but then pointing to a dude in a mech suit & saying "That is warcraft"

+Lack of a hero character
+Lack of a location
+Lack of unique abilities
+Lack of a relevant play style

+Russel, Swan, Grenja and the various other Bard NPCs might not have been in Warcraft 3 but they're still heroic figures in this setting. Or that the face of the expansion even needs to be that class. Hell, we have so many classless important characters they could just make them into bard retroactively. I'm sure Wrathion & Lilian Voss have some musical talent, in fact both their voice actors have recorded albums.
+Broken Isles had no direct connection to Demon Hunters until they put Vault of the Wardens there on a whim
+They have given these NPCs unique abilities including Dissonant Chord & Encore of Torment
+You say that they need a relevant play style as if Tinkers have that established already, or that they haven't completely resesigned Monks & Death Knights several times

[Vakir]

I'm with bards being a pseudo-profession, having the chance to take the music player of the Garrison and bring it into the social space with something akin to 14's Performance action would be great. They'd have a 28 year library to draw off of and the only worthwhile part of the new Darkmoon mini-game was new mixes of songs.

How they'd make it a full profession worthy of investment, I do not know, short of a performance giving a new buff to a party or something, similar to Well Fed.

They CAN just as easily make it a class but there's a number of prior fantasies not fulfilled before they do. Even 14's Bard runs off of being more archery oriented with lore surrounding magically enhanced ballads, D&D's present lore with creation and inspiration magic. WoW to justify it in the lore (lol) could easily do so but they'd need to create some new concepts to do it.

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

There are true points in the post, but some bullshit in the post as well.

Oooh. I hope the living world part isn't bullshit. That seemed like the best part to me.

[Trazzle]

Fact is we have two races engrossed in tech/engineering, yes mech/tech stuff fits in WoW.

We’ve only recently seen the barest hint of true bards/musicians existing in WoW with various non named NPC in shadowlands, jay the bard in BFA (contest winner from blizzcon I believe) prior to that… an old guitar hero April fools? ETC?

[Vakir]

See, I think Jay the Bard (the character and actual human, but speaking of the former now) is dope as hell. I just see his bard-ing as the kind of thing he does as his gig.

It's a cooler idea (to me) to think about a weary hunter or warrior or something kicking up their feet at a tavern and playing a diddy to soothe fellow adventurers after a day of slaying than just "this is my combat purpose." It's like how being, say, a leather worker could be PART of the fantasy of a character that's heavily involved in nature or hunting. It enhances the already existing concepts we have rather than it being requirement for another.

It works better as a separate concept in something like 14 or D&D due to how they've presented those classes/jobs for a long period of time.

This is 100% personal preference to me and how I view WoW, though. I'm bigger on the smaller scale stuff trying to bring us back to being adventurers and...generally when Blizzard tries to add something new, they feel the need to go B I G.

[Teriz]

When I explain how it works mechanically, you say it doesn't work conceptually. When I explain how it works conceptually you say it doesn't work mechanically. You just keep pointing at specific Warcraft NPC with an instrument & saying "that isn't warcraft" but then pointing to a dude in a mech suit & saying "That is warcraft"

Well the “dude in a mech suit” has the exact same pedigree as the previous class inclusions. The concept has loads of unique abilities, we can attach it to a major lore hero, and we can even place the concept in a location for a future expansion. Again, we don’t have any of that for Bards.

For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

Well the “dude in a mech suit” has the exact same pedigree as the previous class inclusions. The concept has loads of unique abilities, we can attach it to a major lore hero, and we can even place the concept in a location for a future expansion. Again, we don’t have any of that for Bards.

For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?

The power...to move you.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Oooh. I hope the living world part isn't bullshit. That seemed like the best part to me.

I'm thinking that Living World, Tinkers, or Accords are the most likely things to be close to reality—I figure the setting and specifics are what someone made up. It's likely that someone made it up but got a lot of things right.

We also already know that cross-faction play will likely be there.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The last thing I wanna do is quest back in Azeroth and hear whispers from Azeroth's world-soul every now and then. Living world and all...


YOU WON'T TRICK ME... N'ZOTH.

[Ersula]

Fact is we have two races engrossed in tech/engineering, yes mech/tech stuff fits in WoW.

We’ve only recently seen the barest hint of true bards/musicians existing in WoW with various non named NPC in shadowlands, jay the bard in BFA (contest winner from blizzcon I believe) prior to that… an old guitar hero April fools? ETC?

You can't say that without also pointing out the devs have repeatedly told people asking for tinkers they should be happy with Engineering existing.

For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?

By that logic there will never be a new class ever again because they've already used all the iconic warcraft abilties. Ironically, another Necrolord assault NPC has "Robo-goblin" but with the Tinker motif removed: He undulates between an unstoppable slime monster & a potion-throwing alchemist. And even Tinkers "iconic abilities" are just volley & metamorphosis with different names.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The last thing I wanna do is quest back in Azeroth and hear whispers from Azeroth's world-soul every now and then. Living world and all...


YOU WON'T TRICK ME... N'ZOTH.

I maintain my previous hopes that Azeroth is a little bit sinister—not because she's corrupted, just because she has learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that war and violence solves everything and is probably extremely traumatized and inclined to violence.

[Teriz]

You can't say that without also pointing out the devs have repeatedly told people asking for tinkers they should be happy with Engineering existing.

Where did the devs say this?