Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

I’m sorry but they simply aren’t. The concepts you mentioned have major lore figures attached to them. Bards simply do not. You can put Gazlowe or Wrathion on the cover of an expansion. There’s no Bard character of that stature, and that’s by design.

Monks as they exist had no major lore figure attached to them apart from Chen, which was considered more of an Easter Egg than anything. If they want to whip a class out of thin air, they can, and they will. That being said... Tinker is still the likeliest, imo.

[Ersula]

If Bard gets added to WoW, it will be as a profession, not a class.

I would say busking in wow would be nice: In fact that's one of the reasons people keep listing FFXIV is a better game to simply hang out in than WoW. But if you look at their 4 secondary professions: they're so not-a-priority they've basically killed half of them. Bards are present in the game as a combat vocation. Swan might be a nice guy who plays songs in the seat of the primus, but he also has good AOE & Stun abilities when you use him in the Necrolord Maw Assault. Same goes for Russel during the Invasion of Boralus.

[Teriz]

Monks as they exist had no major lore figure attached to them apart from Chen, which was considered more of an Easter Egg than anything. If they want to whip a class out of thin air, they can, and they will. That being said... Tinker is still the likeliest, imo.

That simply isn’t true. Consider that Chen Stormstout not only brought the Brewmaster concept (and it’s unique abilities), but also the Pandaren race, and Pandaria the continent where an expansion based on his class and people could take place. Pandaren were one of the most demanded for races, and Pandaria was one of the most requested locations. You can’t just whip that out of thin air. That’s legacy and a built-in fanbase.

[Ersula]

I’m sorry but they simply aren’t. The concepts you mentioned have major lore figures attached to them. Bards simply do not. You can put Gazlowe or Wrathion on the cover of an expansion. There’s no Bard character of that stature, and that’s by design.

My problem is you keep listing things that don't matter when adding a playable class. They don't need to put an example of a class on the cover of an expansion (do physical boxes of expansions even exist anymore?). They don't need to be a Warcraft 3 hero. They don't need to be recognizable in WoW lore because all WoW lore is already a ripoff of Forgotten Realms, in which Bard is an iconic class in all of Tolkienesque fantasy.

[Dracullus]

Looks like next 5 weeks will be full of tinkers, void, dragons and isles.




Let's hope 9.2.5 is something more than cross faction.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Monks as they exist had no major lore figure attached to them apart from Chen, which was considered more of an Easter Egg than anything. If they want to whip a class out of thin air, they can, and they will. That being said... Tinker is still the likeliest, imo.

Frankly, I'm thinking Dragons would be best simply because they're more "epic" than the alternatives. I like the idea of a Tinker or Artificer, but they simply don't feel epic enough. I figure a Dragon is something over-the-top, interesting, and which can stand up to snuff with all the iconic classes like Demon Hunters and Paladins. Although Tinkers are iconic, they simply feel a little undercooked for something so over-the-top as WoW.

[Vakir]

I'm just gonna come out and say it: I made the EoD logo. It's fake. I'm sorry. Didn't expect it to blow up this much. To anyone who thought it was real, I'm flattered, thanks!

I don't believe yoooou!

Show me the process, or at least the starting steps, that was way too good.

[Teriz]

My problem is you keep listing things that don't matter when adding a playable class. They don't need to put an example of a class on the cover of an expansion (do physical boxes of expansions even exist anymore?). They don't need to be a Warcraft 3 hero. They don't need to be recognizable in WoW lore because all WoW lore is already a ripoff of Forgotten Realms, in which Bard is an iconic class in all of Tolkienesque fantasy.

But they’re not an iconic class in Warcraft and they never have been. There wasn’t even a Bard class in the TTRPG or the CCG, and those games had weird stuff like Steam Knights and Scouts.

And those things don’t matter to you, but they clearly matter to the design team because they want the new class to make sense in the expansion they appear in. That’s easier to accomplish when you have a class based on a major lore figure, because typically that major lore figure has a location attached to them that you can base the lore on.

For example;
The Lich King/Death Knights/Northrend
Chen Stormstout/Monks/Pandaria
Illidan Stormrage/Demon Hunters/Broken Isles

We don’t have that with Bards.

- - - Updated - - -

Frankly, I'm thinking Dragons would be best simply because they're more "epic" than the alternatives. I like the idea of a Tinker or Artificer, but they simply don't feel epic enough. I figure a Dragon is something over-the-top, interesting, and which can stand up to snuff with all the iconic classes like Demon Hunters and Paladins. Although Tinkers are iconic, they simply feel a little undercooked for something so over-the-top as WoW.

Someone mentioned a potential scenario where Gallywix attacks Stormwind inside a giant robot, Godzilla-style.

That would be pretty over the top.

[Civciv]

Galzilla

[Teriz]

Galzilla

Seriously, who wouldn’t love some crazy shit like that? That would be awesome, hilarious, and legendary at the same time!

[Chickat]

Can we know what's the BS part?

Guessing the Class part is fake.

[Ersula]

The Lich King/Death Knights/Northrend
Chen Stormstout/Monks/Pandaria
Illidan Stormrage/Demon Hunters/Broken Isles

We don’t have that with Bards.

Unless the theme is "Classic RPG" which is a theme they've expressed a desire to return to.

[Hitei]

It was made in Photoshop. Ok, so I used the classic vanilla logo as the reference point for the border and Shadowlands' logo for the "WoW" text (tweaked the colors etc). I handpainted the border, some parts are inspired by a Naaru but the rest I just winged. The starry background is just a photo of the sky.

Despite finding that hilarious and feeling vindicated, I'm gonna be the one to ask for actual hard evidence, since anyone could claim to have been the one behind a leak and that it's fake.

Do you have the higher res version? or the PSD?

[Teriz]

Unless the theme is "Classic RPG" which is a theme they've expressed a desire to return to.

Bards in classic RPGs are buff bots whose sole purpose is to support and buff groups. That’s a play style Blizzard incorporated into the Shaman and Paladin classes in early WoW and largely abandoned by WotLK, instead pushing the Trinity, and “bring the player and not the class”. So, we can add an incompatible playstyle to the list of why Bards are an unlikely WoW class.

+Lack of a hero character
+Lack of a location
+Lack of unique abilities
+Lack of a relevant play style

[The Stormbringer]

A month and five days left. Woo.

[Ersula]

Bards in classic RPGs are buff bots whose sole purpose is to support and buff groups. That’s a play style Blizzard incorporated into the Shaman and Paladin classes in early WoW and largely abandoned by WotLK, instead pushing the Trinity, and “bring the player and not the class”. So, we can add an incompatible playstyle to the list of why Bards are an unlikely WoW class.

If Bard & Dancer can work in FFXIV it can work in WoW

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

Those who don't think you can fight with music have clearly never heard of the famous bard duo, Tenacious D.

[Teriz]

If Bard & Dancer can work in FFXIV it can work in WoW

Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.

[Ersula]

Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.

When I explain how it works mechanically, you say it doesn't work conceptually. When I explain how it works conceptually you say it doesn't work mechanically. You just keep pointing at specific Warcraft NPC with an instrument & saying "that isn't warcraft" but then pointing to a dude in a mech suit & saying "That is warcraft"

+Lack of a hero character
+Lack of a location
+Lack of unique abilities
+Lack of a relevant play style

+Russel, Swan, Grenja and the various other Bard NPCs might not have been in Warcraft 3 but they're still heroic figures in this setting. Or that the face of the expansion even needs to be that class. Hell, we have so many classless important characters they could just make them into bard retroactively. I'm sure Wrathion & Lilian Voss have some musical talent, in fact both their voice actors have recorded albums.
+Broken Isles had no direct connection to Demon Hunters until they put Vault of the Wardens there on a whim
+They have given these NPCs unique abilities including Dissonant Chord & Encore of Torment
+You say that they need a relevant play style as if Tinkers have that established already, or that they haven't completely resesigned Monks & Death Knights several times

[Vakir]

I'm with bards being a pseudo-profession, having the chance to take the music player of the Garrison and bring it into the social space with something akin to 14's Performance action would be great. They'd have a 28 year library to draw off of and the only worthwhile part of the new Darkmoon mini-game was new mixes of songs.

How they'd make it a full profession worthy of investment, I do not know, short of a performance giving a new buff to a party or something, similar to Well Fed.

They CAN just as easily make it a class but there's a number of prior fantasies not fulfilled before they do. Even 14's Bard runs off of being more archery oriented with lore surrounding magically enhanced ballads, D&D's present lore with creation and inspiration magic. WoW to justify it in the lore (lol) could easily do so but they'd need to create some new concepts to do it.