1. #28781
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If Bard & Dancer can work in FFXIV it can work in WoW
    Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.

  2. #28782
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Final Fantasy has a looooong history of Bard and Dancer classes. Warcraft simply does not.
    When I explain how it works mechanically, you say it doesn't work conceptually. When I explain how it works conceptually you say it doesn't work mechanically. You just keep pointing at specific Warcraft NPC with an instrument & saying "that isn't warcraft" but then pointing to a dude in a mech suit & saying "That is warcraft"

    +Lack of a hero character
    +Lack of a location
    +Lack of unique abilities
    +Lack of a relevant play style
    +Russel, Swan, Grenja and the various other Bard NPCs might not have been in Warcraft 3 but they're still heroic figures in this setting. Or that the face of the expansion even needs to be that class. Hell, we have so many classless important characters they could just make them into bard retroactively. I'm sure Wrathion & Lilian Voss have some musical talent, in fact both their voice actors have recorded albums.
    +Broken Isles had no direct connection to Demon Hunters until they put Vault of the Wardens there on a whim
    +They have given these NPCs unique abilities including Dissonant Chord & Encore of Torment
    +You say that they need a relevant play style as if Tinkers have that established already, or that they haven't completely resesigned Monks & Death Knights several times
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-03-14 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #28783
    I'm with bards being a pseudo-profession, having the chance to take the music player of the Garrison and bring it into the social space with something akin to 14's Performance action would be great. They'd have a 28 year library to draw off of and the only worthwhile part of the new Darkmoon mini-game was new mixes of songs.

    How they'd make it a full profession worthy of investment, I do not know, short of a performance giving a new buff to a party or something, similar to Well Fed.

    They CAN just as easily make it a class but there's a number of prior fantasies not fulfilled before they do. Even 14's Bard runs off of being more archery oriented with lore surrounding magically enhanced ballads, D&D's present lore with creation and inspiration magic. WoW to justify it in the lore (lol) could easily do so but they'd need to create some new concepts to do it.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2022-03-14 at 08:19 PM.

  4. #28784
    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho21 View Post
    There are true points in the post, but some bullshit in the post as well.
    Oooh. I hope the living world part isn't bullshit. That seemed like the best part to me.

  5. #28785
    Fact is we have two races engrossed in tech/engineering, yes mech/tech stuff fits in WoW.

    We’ve only recently seen the barest hint of true bards/musicians existing in WoW with various non named NPC in shadowlands, jay the bard in BFA (contest winner from blizzcon I believe) prior to that… an old guitar hero April fools? ETC?

  6. #28786
    See, I think Jay the Bard (the character and actual human, but speaking of the former now) is dope as hell. I just see his bard-ing as the kind of thing he does as his gig.

    It's a cooler idea (to me) to think about a weary hunter or warrior or something kicking up their feet at a tavern and playing a diddy to soothe fellow adventurers after a day of slaying than just "this is my combat purpose." It's like how being, say, a leather worker could be PART of the fantasy of a character that's heavily involved in nature or hunting. It enhances the already existing concepts we have rather than it being requirement for another.

    It works better as a separate concept in something like 14 or D&D due to how they've presented those classes/jobs for a long period of time.

    This is 100% personal preference to me and how I view WoW, though. I'm bigger on the smaller scale stuff trying to bring us back to being adventurers and...generally when Blizzard tries to add something new, they feel the need to go B I G.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2022-03-14 at 08:30 PM.

  7. #28787
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    When I explain how it works mechanically, you say it doesn't work conceptually. When I explain how it works conceptually you say it doesn't work mechanically. You just keep pointing at specific Warcraft NPC with an instrument & saying "that isn't warcraft" but then pointing to a dude in a mech suit & saying "That is warcraft"
    Well the “dude in a mech suit” has the exact same pedigree as the previous class inclusions. The concept has loads of unique abilities, we can attach it to a major lore hero, and we can even place the concept in a location for a future expansion. Again, we don’t have any of that for Bards.

    For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?

  8. #28788
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well the “dude in a mech suit” has the exact same pedigree as the previous class inclusions. The concept has loads of unique abilities, we can attach it to a major lore hero, and we can even place the concept in a location for a future expansion. Again, we don’t have any of that for Bards.

    For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?
    The power...to move you.

  9. #28789
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscipleofCazicThule View Post
    Oooh. I hope the living world part isn't bullshit. That seemed like the best part to me.
    I'm thinking that Living World, Tinkers, or Accords are the most likely things to be close to reality—I figure the setting and specifics are what someone made up. It's likely that someone made it up but got a lot of things right.

    We also already know that cross-faction play will likely be there.

  10. #28790
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    The last thing I wanna do is quest back in Azeroth and hear whispers from Azeroth's world-soul every now and then. Living world and all...


    YOU WON'T TRICK ME... N'ZOTH.

  11. #28791
    Quote Originally Posted by Trazzle View Post
    Fact is we have two races engrossed in tech/engineering, yes mech/tech stuff fits in WoW.

    We’ve only recently seen the barest hint of true bards/musicians existing in WoW with various non named NPC in shadowlands, jay the bard in BFA (contest winner from blizzcon I believe) prior to that… an old guitar hero April fools? ETC?
    You can't say that without also pointing out the devs have repeatedly told people asking for tinkers they should be happy with Engineering existing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    For example, give me some unique Bard abilities from Blizzard themselves that this class could use. Demon Hunters had metamorphosis, Death Knights had Animate Dead, Monks had Storm Earth Fire. What do Bards have?
    By that logic there will never be a new class ever again because they've already used all the iconic warcraft abilties. Ironically, another Necrolord assault NPC has "Robo-goblin" but with the Tinker motif removed: He undulates between an unstoppable slime monster & a potion-throwing alchemist. And even Tinkers "iconic abilities" are just volley & metamorphosis with different names.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-03-14 at 08:56 PM.

  12. #28792
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    The last thing I wanna do is quest back in Azeroth and hear whispers from Azeroth's world-soul every now and then. Living world and all...


    YOU WON'T TRICK ME... N'ZOTH.
    I maintain my previous hopes that Azeroth is a little bit sinister—not because she's corrupted, just because she has learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that war and violence solves everything and is probably extremely traumatized and inclined to violence.

  13. #28793
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You can't say that without also pointing out the devs have repeatedly told people asking for tinkers they should be happy with Engineering existing.
    Where did the devs say this?

  14. #28794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Actually, if we want to be pedantic, the entire final showdown of the expansion took place there. So it could be interpreted as foreshadowing that the Hour of Twilight, and Deathwing's strongest attack, was going to take place in Northrend.
    Kinda, but it only came into play at the end of the expac and only inside instanced content. There were no changes to Northrend and if Northrend being impacted by the Cataclysm had been more important during 4.0 this could have been valid.
    give up dat booty
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendra View Post
    <3
    For the matriarchy.

  15. #28795
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You can't say that without also pointing out the devs have repeatedly told people asking for tinkers they should be happy with Engineering existing.
    I honestly doubt it will be either Tinker or Bards, but I will be happy to be wrong—there is some precedent for Tinker, and I wouldn't be too shocked if it becomes a thing. Still, it is redundant, and they'll have to resolve that redundancy somehow. I'm personally hoping for Dragon stuff, or just plain Artificers instead of Tinkers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    Kinda, but it only came into play at the end of the expac and only inside instanced content. There were no changes to Northrend and if Northrend being impacted by the Cataclysm had been more important during 4.0 this could have been valid.
    I like the deep reading they had, but frankly Occam's Razor says that they probably just meant it to demonstrate damage to the world.

  16. #28796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I honestly doubt it will be either Tinker or Bards, but I will be happy to be wrong—there is some precedent for Tinker, and I wouldn't be too shocked if it becomes a thing. Still, it is redundant, and they'll have to resolve that redundancy somehow. I'm personally hoping for Dragon stuff, or just plain Artificers instead of Tinkers.
    I believe Blizzard would go the Monk route and incorporate the WC3 and HotS concept into a more generalized technology class, along with a general name like “Mechanic” or “Machinist”. Just like Brewmaster was reserved for the tanking spec, and wasn’t used for the entirety of the class.

    Hence why Ybarra might have laughed at the name during the stream. It probably isn’t the name they’re using for a technology-based class.

  17. #28797
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    I find it more curious that Tinker is being passed around as some deep rooted wish by the playerbase, when it's, at best, a niche.

    And you're still shooting yourself in the foot by adding a new class and leaving the existing roster as is.

    The nonsensical notion that it's near impossible to balance existing classes, ergo might as well add more onto the pile is what's led us to be here in the first place.

    It's like the ridiculous analogy someone posted a while back: if your fleet of police cars is down, then you still need new cars. Except this is counterproductive, all you're doing is adding another car that will eventually join the pile of broken down vehicles.

    But Blizzard being Blizzard, and part of the playerbase measuring their commitment to the game by whether blizzard adds another class or not, it's easy for them to repackage the existent panoply of spells with some originality here and there into a new class, rather than go through the hard work of investing into the 30 smth specs we have now.

  18. #28798
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I maintain my previous hopes that Azeroth is a little bit sinister—not because she's corrupted, just because she has learned beyond a shadow of a doubt that war and violence solves everything and is probably extremely traumatized and inclined to violence.
    Anduin did say that we come from a violent land in the White Tiger quest line. Maybe he was more right than he thought.

  19. #28799
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    I find it more curious that Tinker is being passed around as some deep rooted wish by the playerbase, when it's, at best, a niche.
    I think the fact that people who leak future expansions continuously drops that concept into their leaks regardless of expansion theme shows that it is a deep rooted ask by the userbase. There’s a reason so many YouTube streamers make a face or take a drink when the concept pops up.

  20. #28800
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think the fact that people who leak future expansions continuously drops that concept into their leaks regardless of expansion theme shows that it is a deep rooted ask by the userbase. There’s a reason so many YouTube streamers make a face or take a drink when the concept pops up.
    I think you're reading what you want into that. Your bias towards Tinkers leads you to establish connections that aren't possibly there.

    You see leaks with Tinkers because mmo-champ, in great part due to your own actions, is plagued with such discussions. Also, people watch different content creators, and I dont see any of mine rambling on about Tinkers.

    And the fact that you go ahead and dig up what you think is the groundwork to establish class A or B has no bearing on whether or not it'll come to pass.

    Much in the same way that as much as I'm interesting in Shamans having a 4th and tanking spec, with the primary (and only) reason for that being the vanilla talent tree that allowed for that, there won't be one.

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