1. #28941
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't you use a dragon mount and pet from BFA and Shadowlands to show a connection to an expected future dragon expansion?
    Because they aren't just based on correlation of any random store mount?

  2. #28942
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I thought we agreed that the next expansion is dragon-based correct?

    Then at the VERY least a Dragon mount should be a hint of said dragon-based expansion. You're simply dismissing it because it's mechanical.



    Its a call-back to the original dragon soul.



    With the exact same skin as the Steamscale.



    It's a mechanical dragon released at the end of an expansion filled with technology class and dragon hints. What connections do I need to force?
    whether i want it to be dragon based or not doesnt matter
    a lot of hints to it but none being the steamscale mount (unless you count when i tried to use it as a troll post about talon guards)
    even if steamscale is what they want to use as a hint it is not a part of a pattern
    it was the last mount but that was AFTER the announcement yeah?
    you are forcing steamscale to be a thing because it doesnt fit the thing
    the last mounts BEFORE the expansion announcement have hinted at the next
    you are saying the steamscale hints at the expansion after the next but theres nothing saying that is true

    you then use an anniversary pet which imo might be a hint but we have no reason to believe so

    because of this im looking at the cat mount

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because they aren't just based on correlation of any random store mount?
    this^^^^
    yeah i want a dragon expansion
    yeah i believe it is happening
    NO i wont change something that we can observe just because i want dragons

  3. #28943
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you honestly believe they're going to use heavy metal concepts for a Bard class in a high fantasy setting?
    The game has two heavy Metal bands in canon. You're arguing for a robotics class; Isn't this statement pretty hypocritical?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Vanilla NE Priests had a version of Starfall.
    No they didn't. They had a variation of moonfire, a druid spell. Not even close to a giant AOE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Nah, they were based largely on Wardens. In WC3 Wardens were originally Assassins, but Blizzard altered their lore and changed their name, but retained their abilities. Hence why Rogues got quite a few of their abilities. In addition there was the halfocren Rogue Garona.
    This is backwards logic. Rogues didn't get abilities from the Warden kit until the FOURTH expansion. And Garona didn't have ANY special abilities. Same goes for Stampede, an ability hunters didn't get until YEARS later. What exactly were they basing the vanilla rogue if not the wealth of Dungeons & Dragons inspired media that came before Warcraft?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because a new class is a pretty big deal, and needs to make sense within the expansion of its release. Also every class had some level of connection to the expansion it was released in. It certainly helps that the major characters of those expansions; LK, Chen, and Illidan were members of the new class.
    If that's an absolute necessity, its not a problem, considering how they've been changing major characters classes a lot lately. Sylvanas got void bolt. Tyrande had warglaves for exactly one expansion. Anduin was a death knight for a little while. Thrall lost all his Shaman abilities for some reason & is now a pure warrior. If Wrathion whipped out a lute it would not seem weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I missed the part where I said that EVERY mount released is related to the next expansion....
    That's certainly how you were making it sound. Clearly you know Mechanical dragons may never be mentioned again in WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't you use a dragon mount and pet from BFA and Shadowlands to show a connection to an expected future dragon expansion?
    Yes, but you're using it as evidence against other classes' references in lore, which doesn't make sense.

  4. #28944
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Bards are a standard fantasy/rpg/DnD class, so I don't understand how anyone can adamantly claim they will never be in WoW.
    By the same reason people don't understand how artificers AKA tinkers, are a possibility as well.

    The biggest problem with bard is how the approach, cause they usually are a support class, and a pure support class doesn't work in wow, they need a reliable DPS on top of others.

    They can safe pull out the DND 5 edition approach of bards, making then full on spellcasters, it works quite well. Make a two spec class like DH, Healer and DPS and you are good

  5. #28945
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    It's possible that when they were refering to the heir of Lordaeron they weren't being totally literal: They were talking about Turalyon, the oldest living human of the Lordaeron aristocracy. The next question would be "what was the point of this storyline?" Why were they sowing dissonance within Stormwind? Was it to set up that the Alliance rejects Anduin post-shadowlands? That they prefer Turalyon as a leader? That would put the Alliance & Horde in an interesting juxtaposition: The Alliance, led by union of Light & Void with Turalyon & Alleria, and the Horde led by the union of Day & Night, with Lor'themar & Thalyssria.
    no what i mean is the one spreading everything
    if the head of the scarlet crusade is a woman then we have the red queen
    the white queen can easily be calia
    we already know the heir they have is a boy

  6. #28946
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    The game has two heavy Metal bands in canon.
    They're "canon" in so far as anything that appears in the game is canon. They're not canon in the sense that you'll see them going on adventures in the game, or influencing the story.

    You're arguing for a robotics class; Isn't this statement pretty hypocritical?
    A "robotics class" that two faction leaders are a part of.

    No they didn't. They had a variation of moonfire, a druid spell. Not even close to a giant AOE.
    Starshards was one of the priest racial abilities available only to Night elf priests. It was a potent Arcane-based instant damage over time spell that could be used by night elf priests and priestesses to rain starshards down upon their foes.

    It was a lesser version of the powerful [Starfall] spell which is commonly used by Priestesses of the Moon such as Tyrande Whisperwind.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Starshards

    This is backwards logic. Rogues didn't get abilities from the Warden kit until the FOURTH expansion.
    It was the second expansion. Also Rogues had Blink in Vanilla beta. It was removed and given to Mages.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because they aren't just based on correlation of any random store mount?
    Uh, it's the only (recent) store mount that's actually a (mechanical) dragon.

  7. #28947
    I'm going to throw an entirely new angle at a prospective new class. Now watch them not add a class in 10.0

    When they were developing a new class for Wrath of the Lich King, the devs detailed their process: They start with brainstoming potential classes. Then they started brainstorming potential mechanics & abilities for each of these prospective classes. The frontrunners were Necromancer, Death Knight & Runemaster. The Death Knight class that made it into the game was actually a combination of mechanics intended for all 3 of these classes.

    What I'm saying is its entirely likely that whatever the new class is called, it will be a combination of Bard, Dark Ranger, Tinker & Dragonwhatever. Imagine a class with these 3 specs:

    Inspiration (Tank) - Sound (Ranged DPS) - Mending (Healing)

    These could be the names of specs for Tinkers or Bards. Especially since 5e reimagined Bards to being unrelated to music. They're just an expert at *something* and from that lens Tinker & Bard are basically the same class. The College of Creation subclass usually gets RP'd as a kind of engineer. An erudite class that isn't inherently cloistered or magical.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-03-15 at 03:17 AM.

  8. #28948
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, it's the only (recent) store mount that's actually a (mechanical) dragon.
    That was a promotional mount first released in 2020, while the expansion mount that is tied to the next expansion is the one with the drakemountemerald_buff.

    Again, you're talking about a promotional mount that was released back in BFA, two years ago. It was even datamined back in January 2020.

  9. #28949
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I'm going to throw an entirely new angle at a prospective new class. Now watch them not add a class in 10.0

    When they were developing a new class for Wrath of the Lich King, the devs detailed their process: They start with brainstoming potential classes. Then they started brainstorming potential mechanics & abilities for each of these prospective classes. The frontrunners were Necromancer, Death Knight & Runemaster. The Death Knight class that made it into the game was actually a combination of mechanics intended for all 3 of these classes.

    What I'm saying is its entirely likely that whatever the new class is called, it will be a combination of Bard, Dark Ranger, Tinker & Dragonwhatever. Imagine a class with these 3 specs:

    Inspiration (Tank) - Sound (Ranged DPS) - Mending (Healing)

    These could be the names of specs for Tinkers or Bards. Especially since 5e reimagined Bards to unrelated to music. They're just an expert at *something* and The College of Creation subclass usually gets RP'd as a kind of engineer.
    I support Dragon Bard wherein you use sound/magic music to replicate the magical thematics of the various flights (bronze sand/unwinding healer; green poison/rot/plant based DPS, Black molten and rock DPS with sonic elements like to Atramedes, and then blue and red inspired spells for the shared class kit and abilities)

    They mixed Brewmaster into WW's normal monk because they both fit a martial artist, and then rolled in the not traditionally monk mistweaver elements. And then re-skinned the entire set with the cohesive aesthetic of august celestials/pandaria. So it's not like there's not a precedent for taking a few things that work together and then applying a unified class on top of it.

  10. #28950
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    That was a promotional mount first released in 2020, while the expansion mount that is tied to the next expansion is the one with the drakemountemerald_buff.

    Again, you're talking about a promotional mount that was released back in BFA, two years ago. It was even datamined back in January 2020.
    Released in July of 2020, 3 months before the launch of patch 9.0.

    In comparison, the Pandaren Monk pet was released in the blizzard store in November 2009, 3 months after Cataclysm’s announcement, and over a year before Cataclysm’s release.

    Long before MoP was ever announced or released.

  11. #28951
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I support Dragon Bard wherein you use sound/magic music to replicate the magical thematics of the various flights (bronze sand/unwinding healer; green poison/rot/plant based DPS, Black molten and rock DPS with sonic elements like to Atramedes, and then blue and red inspired spells for the shared class kit and abilities)

    They mixed Brewmaster into WW's normal monk because they both fit a martial artist, and then rolled in the not traditionally monk mistweaver elements. And then re-skinned the entire set with the cohesive aesthetic of august celestials/pandaria. So it's not like there's not a precedent for taking a few things that work together and then applying a unified class on top of it.
    It all seems so obvious now. Wrathion is a Bard. Specs are:

    Talon (Melee DPS, Weapon: String instruments)
    Breath (Ranged DPS, Weapon: Brass & Woodwinds)
    Scales (Tank, Weapon: Keyboard)
    Buffet (Heals, Weapon: Percussion)

  12. #28952
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Released in July of 2020, 3 months before the launch of patch 9.0.

    In comparison, the Pandaren Monk pet was released in the blizzard store in November 2009, 3 months after Cataclysm’s announcement, and over a year before Cataclysm’s release.

    Long before MoP was ever announced or released.
    Which is exactly what I pointed out lol

    You are retroactively applying the Pandaren Monk pet as a hint an expansion that came YEARS later. That was not a pet hinting to a future expansion theme, that is correlation between unrelated release of store items and expansion. There were numerous pets and mounts released after the Pandaren Monk pet that had nothing to hint at Mists or an Asian themed expansion.

    The ones that hinted MoP was the Heart of Azeroth mount and pet, which were known about shortly before Mists announcement.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-03-15 at 04:05 AM.

  13. #28953
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flotib View Post
    Someone posted this on 4chan without explanation. He stated that he work at Blizzard. Probably fake btw
    I know the Empire of Dragons part is fake, but does anyone know what the bottom art is from? It's so pretty. I tried reverse image search but didn't get anything.

  14. #28954
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I know the Empire of Dragons part is fake, but does anyone know what the bottom art is from? It's so pretty. I tried reverse image search but didn't get anything.
    Willing to wager it's a composite. Someone with more interest than me check the temple in the background VS the old Old God Temple concept art. Pretty sure it's 1:1. Then they threw some other image in front of it.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  15. #28955
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    Just spitballing but it looks like the Old God Temple concept art + some are of the Seething Shore if it's WoW art

  16. #28956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centerblock View Post
    Just spitballing but it looks like the Old God Temple concept art + some are of the Seething Shore if it's WoW art
    Does Seething Shore have trees climbing on rocks with their roots portruding? But, sure it might be a composite of something, just maybe not from wow?

    Wow Bagina, great work on the logo, I really love it.
    Last edited by Jekyll; 2022-03-15 at 05:57 AM.

  17. #28957
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    Well, last changes buries my hope for Renown 80 token. But, since they are introducing account-wide token that increase it by 1, it should be awarded for content that usually award Renown after you max out - all weeklies, campaign, bosses & wins, etc.

  18. #28958
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    If he can do it, you can do it. Make a fake logo, Super Dickmann, and bring us hopium.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not a dragonposter myself. I find WoW dragons boring as fuck and I'm glad I was right to immediately say it's fake, but a nu-Cataclysm with dragons as a backdrop like the first one would be appreciated. As would be one that doesn't bother with the Dragons but I doubt we'll have that luck.

    @The Stormbringer

    It's open fantasy art with the Dragon Isles concept art of the squid temple that always appears in these overlaid in the background.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-03-15 at 07:09 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  19. #28959
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    My dude, they have bits and pieces to pull from wherever they want. Russel the Bard, the Bard April Fools joke, random Bards. You're dramatically overselling the forethought put into Pandaren lore in Warcraft 3.

    You really shouldn't argue so hard with *me*, considering my initial post was in *defense* of new class ideas. It wasn't directed at you, just because you want a specific two class(es) and don't like when other people have other ideas. I'm one of the people who is completely for new class ideas. In all senses.

    Lore explanations are easy. All of these points aside, give it up. You have to stop taking the lore and "things being set up" so seriously, anyway, because obviously the writers don't.
    This exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except you're not seeming to get it; The Brewmaster, Chen Stormstout , the Pandaren, and Pandaria in WC3 set up a lore basis for the eventual Monk class in WoW.

    We DON'T have that for Bards in ANY sense. We never have. Further, unlike Wrathion, Mekkatorque, Anduin, or Velen, Blizzard has never built up a Bard lore hero in WoW. They have had decades to do so.
    I respectfully disagree, I feel you're presenting Pandaria and the Pandaren as if they were a well established race within the game before MoP: they're not. They were an April's Fool joke in WC3 which became a popular meme/reference amongst the players, mainly due to the (awesome) art of Samwise Didier, and the only main reference we really had was Brewmaster Chen Stormstout. Oh and we knew he came from a mysterious land called Pandaria (some even argued it wasn't canon at that time). That's it. We had nothing about Pandaria itself, the pandaren culture, the Monk class, the Mogu, the Sha, the Celestials, the Mistweavers, all of that was literally whipped out of thin air and the only concrete element was the introduction of Chen in WC3 as a funny brewmaster (and he was never referred to as monk).

    I do agree with you on the fact they don't have a lot of bard representation in the game: it's minimal at the moment and we don't have a character as iconic as Chen associated to that class. Where I disagree however, is on the fact this constitutes a barrier to this class ever being introduced. My point is, if Blizzard wants to do Bards, they'll do Bards. If they want to do Dragonsworns, they'll do Dragonsworns. If they want to do Tinkers, they'll do Tinkers. They don't need a heavy existing lore build up for a new class, Monks are the proof of that. And if they do want that lore layout, they can just fluff it up the expansion/patch before it's released. Anyway, that's my two cents on this topic, I really don't think any classes are out of reach for Blizzard; I think some of them are really unlikely because their momentum has passed (Necromancer and Dark Ranger namely), but if they want to do something and they know it will attract players, they will do it, there's no rulebook and they're still in charge of their own game, despite what people like to think sometimes.

  20. #28960
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I know the Empire of Dragons part is fake, but does anyone know what the bottom art is from? It's so pretty. I tried reverse image search but didn't get anything.
    Searching with Google goyt me to this: http://www.digitalpainting.net/asp_scripts/print_image.asp?WebsiteID=16824&GalleryID=9960&MediaID=5527383&Print=0


    Last edited by pacotaco; 2022-03-15 at 08:36 AM.

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