Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[unbound]

II'm really struggling to understand where the hate is coming from. Everytime I chat someone that doesn't like the expansion, their arguments fall onto themselves.

Because it is an entirely boring expansion.

Every time you chat with someone who doesn't like the expansion, their arguments aren't compelling to you because you enjoy the expansion. Your lack of ability in understanding others point of view doesn't mean that they are wrong; it simply means that you refuse to accept their rationale. Don't worry, this is a common phenomena where you want to defend your choice as being the only correct choice. We see it all the time in Apple vs Microsoft vs Google, or Ford vs Chevy vs Toyota, or LG vs Samsung vs Vizio, etc, etc, etc. You made a choice based on your values...time that you recognize that others have their own set of values that are just as relevant as your own.

As for Lady Atia's nonsense, BC raiding wasn't remotely as bad as portrayed. I personally led a raiding guild back in those days, and we picked up all kinds of people that we taught to raid...many of whom moved on to more serious raiding guilds. Not everyone raided in BC because there was plenty to do with twice as many dungeons (just one element) as well as many new things introduced (none of which was clicking on a table and waiting hours later for a result). Those that wanted to raid absolutely could.

In my experience over the past nearly 2 decades, the vast majority of players really aren't very deep into the lore. Pointing out lore as the primary issue is a strawman argument overall, but it becomes laughable when people start hating on lore of old expansions that had over 5x as many active players as today.

Players want something to do. SL has been the continuation of lax development. Covenants are interesting but didn't add much content. We have the same lazy 8 dungeons and 3 raids as the last 3 expansions. While some love M+, it also causes burnout of seeing the same 8 dungeons over and over and over and over again, but have to race through it...about as fun as running around the track in elementary school all year long was to most people.

[huth]

The way I see it, it's like old mythology: the lands of the dead are literal lands of the world. Mortals could physicaly go, but they are forbiden (hence Cerberus). This is sort of the same.
Wwe also see other Forces opening portals to the Shadowlands, so it doesn't seem to be even hard to do.

Wouldn't say "not hard", but not so prohibitively expensive as to not be worthwhile. Obviously, you can't just open up portals willy-nilly or the Kyrians wouldn't be needed, but it's easy enough in either direction that a standing army was considered necessary.

[Lady Atia]

Because it is an entirely boring expansion.

Every time you chat with someone who doesn't like the expansion, their arguments aren't compelling to you because you enjoy the expansion. Your lack of ability in understanding others point of view doesn't mean that they are wrong; it simply means that you refuse to accept their rationale. Don't worry, this is a common phenomena where you want to defend your choice as being the only correct choice. We see it all the time in Apple vs Microsoft vs Google, or Ford vs Chevy vs Toyota, or LG vs Samsung vs Vizio, etc, etc, etc. You made a choice based on your values...time that you recognize that others have their own set of values that are just as relevant as your own.

As for Lady Atia's nonsense, BC raiding wasn't remotely as bad as portrayed. I personally led a raiding guild back in those days, and we picked up all kinds of people that we taught to raid...many of whom moved on to more serious raiding guilds. Not everyone raided in BC because there was plenty to do with twice as many dungeons (just one element) as well as many new things introduced (none of which was clicking on a table and waiting hours later for a result). Those that wanted to raid absolutely could.

If you think that guild hopping during TBC was a good thing than I can't help you anymore. People tend to remember it fondly because it was the first Expansion, but compared to any other Expansion it was just bad, sorry.

[Alanar]

More like the opposite, pretty much everything got debunked.

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Pretty much:

Funny how you can see even more its far from titan or mech related. So much time wasted into these stupid discussion...
I am glad its debunked.

[Triceron]

That's it. We're not going to the Dragon Isles. We're not going to the Undermine. We're not even going to one of the moons. We're going to the sun!

Suns of Sundaria confirmed

[Soulwind]

Suns of Sundaria confirmed

The cover art will feature Zao Sunseeker, the hero we were all rooting for.

[therewillbedragons]

For what it's worth (nothing), I still think it will be dragons and I suspect that we will sadly not be getting a new class.

All classes so far have representation in the source games (e.g. WCIII), and there isn't much left to pull from. Classes are always themed to the expansion, and if it's dragons then I don't see any viable classes in the source material. They could create something new of course, but I just don't think Blizz has it in them at this current time to dedicate the resources needed for building a new class from the ground up.

SL does not feel like a WoD situation where they abandoned the expansion early to work on the next one, rather they just fell behind on SL due to a number of well known factors and (maybe) did cut some content. If stuff was cut though, I would guess it was more of a "we don't have the time/resources to do this now" and not a "we are going to MOVE resources from this to the next thing we're working on". I fear that the perfect storm of issues Blizz has been dealing with that put a damper on SL is going to affect the next expansion in the exact same way.

I do hope I'm wrong because 10.0 is a big number and it should have something huge and exciting to go along with it.

[Triceron]

The cover art will feature Zao Sunseeker, the hero we were all rooting for.

For the glory of Zao!

[ZyntosAran]

For what it's worth (nothing), I still think it will be dragons and I suspect that we will sadly not be getting a new class.

All classes so far have representation in the source games (e.g. WCIII), and there isn't much left to pull from. Classes are always themed to the expansion, and if it's dragons then I don't see any viable classes in the source material. They could create something new of course, but I just don't think Blizz has it in them at this current time to dedicate the resources needed for building a new class from the ground up.

SL does not feel like a WoD situation where they abandoned the expansion early to work on the next one, rather they just fell behind on SL due to a number of well known factors and (maybe) did cut some content. If stuff was cut though, I would guess it was more of a "we don't have the time/resources to do this now" and not a "we are going to MOVE resources from this to the next thing we're working on". I fear that the perfect storm of issues Blizz has been dealing with that put a damper on SL is going to affect the next expansion in the exact same way.

I do hope I'm wrong because 10.0 is a big number and it should have something huge and exciting to go along with it.

I am afraid they kinda have to deliver a new class as basically everyone expects them to. Unless they will provide new specs or rework a lot of stuff (combat rework, class system rework or whatever i dont know, 10.0 might be a huge thing)

[Skildar]

Because it is an entirely boring expansion.

Every time you chat with someone who doesn't like the expansion, their arguments aren't compelling to you because you enjoy the expansion. Your lack of ability in understanding others point of view doesn't mean that they are wrong; it simply means that you refuse to accept their rationale. Don't worry, this is a common phenomena where you want to defend your choice as being the only correct choice. We see it all the time in Apple vs Microsoft vs Google, or Ford vs Chevy vs Toyota, or LG vs Samsung vs Vizio, etc, etc, etc. You made a choice based on your values...time that you recognize that others have their own set of values that are just as relevant as your own.

As for Lady Atia's nonsense, BC raiding wasn't remotely as bad as portrayed. I personally led a raiding guild back in those days, and we picked up all kinds of people that we taught to raid...many of whom moved on to more serious raiding guilds. Not everyone raided in BC because there was plenty to do with twice as many dungeons (just one element) as well as many new things introduced (none of which was clicking on a table and waiting hours later for a result). Those that wanted to raid absolutely could.

In my experience over the past nearly 2 decades, the vast majority of players really aren't very deep into the lore. Pointing out lore as the primary issue is a strawman argument overall, but it becomes laughable when people start hating on lore of old expansions that had over 5x as many active players as today.

Players want something to do. SL has been the continuation of lax development. Covenants are interesting but didn't add much content. We have the same lazy 8 dungeons and 3 raids as the last 3 expansions. While some love M+, it also causes burnout of seeing the same 8 dungeons over and over and over and over again, but have to race through it...about as fun as running around the track in elementary school all year long was to most people.

attacking someone based on nothing but supposition and being condescending isn't a great suit

[AngerFork]

For what it's worth (nothing), I still think it will be dragons and I suspect that we will sadly not be getting a new class.

All classes so far have representation in the source games (e.g. WCIII), and there isn't much left to pull from. Classes are always themed to the expansion, and if it's dragons then I don't see any viable classes in the source material. They could create something new of course, but I just don't think Blizz has it in them at this current time to dedicate the resources needed for building a new class from the ground up.

SL does not feel like a WoD situation where they abandoned the expansion early to work on the next one, rather they just fell behind on SL due to a number of well known factors and (maybe) did cut some content. If stuff was cut though, I would guess it was more of a "we don't have the time/resources to do this now" and not a "we are going to MOVE resources from this to the next thing we're working on". I fear that the perfect storm of issues Blizz has been dealing with that put a damper on SL is going to affect the next expansion in the exact same way.

I do hope I'm wrong because 10.0 is a big number and it should have something huge and exciting to go along with it.

In this case, I'd think they'd reach out to the Dragonsworn idea from the non-canon Warcraft RPG: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonsworn. While the RPG itself is non-canon, it has been mentioned that there will be times for the RPG's ideas & the like to make their way into WoW. If we do have dragons & there isn't enough of a link to another class to put it into this next expansion, I could absolutely see Blizz leaning on the RPG & building out the Dragonsworn as a class, similar to how the Monk was built out of the Brewmaster.

On SL being a WoD situation, I agree to a point. They definitely didn't cut bait the way they did with WoD, each patch has had far more than a selfie cam. But there is a decent amount of evidence to suggest that a patch was cut potentially looking into Thros, possibly due to just not having the time/resources at this point. I do feel though that the "perfect storm" you reference has mostly passed at this point...the company is sold, the harassment issues are more out in the open, and the team has gone through the WFH transition. I could see the issues causing the expansion to release later than many are expecting, but I'd be surprised if they don't try to hit the ground running with consistent content, even if with smaller content patches.

[Nightshade711]

Ehm no, not everyone could access TBC raiding. People could access some of it, or were forced to do all of it for attunement quests. It was a shit design, even worse than the current "only 2% of people kill a mythic endboss" dilemma.

And no, TBC lore is the worst lore today as they literally turned a bunch of anti-heroes/protagonists from warcraft III into villains for ... reasons? The lore was so bad that 90% of it got retconned with Legion and WoD and that was good haha.

And nope, Shadowlands is great. Haters gonna hate. People just dislike the setting or the lore or Covenants before they pulled the ripcord but that's ok. Contentwise atleast Shadowlands is great right now.

BC lore be like:
“Yeah I killed two beings that’ve been known to destroy entire planets, one of which created the Ethereals because his raw power was able to seep though their shields… the other one destroyed entire planets with just a whisper….
Oh yeah these both were killed just as a side thing in 5 man dungeons while we needed a whole raid to kill two moody elves.”

[TheFirstOnes]

Y'all maybe ever thought that Anduin...and Wrathion...are more-so akin to how Goku and Vegeta (Or Krillin), or how Patrick and Spongebob are? As in they're...FRIENDS???!!!!!

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Just bros, that's it.

[Ersula]

In this case, I'd think they'd reach out to the Dragonsworn idea from the non-canon Warcraft RPG: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonsworn. While the RPG itself is non-canon, it has been mentioned that there will be times for the RPG's ideas & the like to make their way into WoW. If we do have dragons & there isn't enough of a link to another class to put it into this next expansion, I could absolutely see Blizz leaning on the RPG & building out the Dragonsworn as a class, similar to how the Monk was built out of the Brewmaster.

I understand not wanting to add new classes from a development angle: It's a commitment to a new thing you have to balance in perpetuity. New classes add to balancing development time, exponentially. But the idea that they "Don't have any more good classes based on Warcraft 3" is a wild statement. You might as well just declare "Our game is creatively bankrupt." They were seriously considering Runemaster in Wotlk and that's something that was never before mentioned in canon. At this point Dragonsworn, Tinker & Bard are all solid concepts. The biggest argument against Bard is "it wasn't in Warcraft 3" yet they keep referencing them in WoW more recently: Keeping their options open.

[Vakir]

Y'all maybe ever thought that Anduin...and Wrathion...are more-so akin to how Goku and Vegeta (Or Krillin), or how Patrick and Spongebob are? As in they're...FRIENDS???!!!!!

Just bros, that's it.

Of course the first example from you would be Dragonball.

Shippers gonna ship. If characters even so much exist in the same universe there's going to be confused and lonely probably-females writing about them. No matter how outlandish.

That being said, SpongeBob and Patrick...uhh...

[Izalla]

There does seem to be a lot of sun, warmth, and bright references lately. That newish bird mount is like a way better phoenix too.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Of course the first example from you would be Dragonball.

Shippers gonna ship. If characters even so much exist in the same universe there's going to be confused and lonely probably-females writing about them. No matter how outlandish.

That being said, SpongeBob and Patrick...uhh...

Objective: Explain "friendship"

Average MMO-Champion user: Cites Spongebob and Dragonball Z


Objective: Make a joke

Average MMO-Champion user: Females.

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There does seem to be a lot of sun, warmth, and bright references lately. That newish bird mount is like a way better phoenix too.

Reasonably, this hints at a Light-based expansion, but it could just as well have connection to a Red Dragonflight element in a Dragon expansion, especially the cat mount which seems to have the proper aesthetic for it—the latter would also explain the Emerald Dragon mount. However, it is also curious in how extensive it is relative to anything that could be tied back to any other flight, and the religious element of praising the sun strikes me as similar to the Light (especially given the themes of Dark Souls).

Regardless of whichever one it is, it will be a luxurious expansion.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I also think that stuff like bard, while not very likely, is also hardly off the table. Maybe back when Metzen and co. were still trying to chase the "glory" of wankhammer and a "sissy bard" would have not fit into that vision. These days, nah, they could easily do that, since the current devs don't seem to have the same idea of where to go with the game (if they have one at all..). You also don't have to go full on anime with such a class to make them worthwhile. The same is true for every class, yes even the annoying tinkler class. I think they are more focused on how much they can gain by adding a class than how to actually make it fit into the game, which is probably also the reason that speaks most agaisnt a new class. On one hand a new class would be one of the biggest features they could announce, on the other hand it would run counter to their minimalist approach since BfA.

[Niwes]

how many ppl here assume some WoD situation happens with 10.0? not in the sense of a (bad) WoD expansion or so. but more in the sense of: before WoD there were many dedicated xpac leaks and speculation and Blizz came up with something TOTALLY different than all the speculations.

how many ppl here think, while everyone is sure its something along Dragons (Dragon Isles etc) or Void vs Light etc, Blizz comes up with something COMPLETELY different?

[Hyrja]

how many ppl here assume some WoD situation happens with 10.0? not in the sense of a (bad) WoD expansion or so. but more in the sense of: before WoD there were many dedicated xpac leaks and speculation and Blizz came up with something TOTALLY different than all the speculations.

how many ppl here think, while everyone is sure its something along Dragons (Dragon Isles etc) or Void vs Light etc, Blizz comes up with something COMPLETELY different?

I think its gonna be a Elune-emerald dream themed expac and its gonna be completely different than what ppl think.