Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Kiivar86]

The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green
Seems like the theory about the Primus as main Villain may be true....

The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness+
Primus made the crown...

How on earth is the Primus a vassal of life?

Dude's a member of the Pantheon of Death.

[Varodoc]

What a coincidence, people here were talking about N'Zoth's fish form and now a red-eyed fish appears in Hearthstone. Is that a reference to the N'Zoth's fish form?

[Makorus]

What a coincidence, people here were talking about N'Zoth's fish form and now a red-eyed fish appears in Hearthstone. Is that a reference to the N'Zoth's fish form?

Yeah, this fish is totally a reference to N'zoth. I think someone said something in the trailer as well, which is also a reference to N'zoth AND Alleria, because they both speak.

[ZyntosAran]

Yeah, this fish is totally a reference to N'zoth. I think someone said something in the trailer as well, which is also a reference to N'zoth AND Alleria, because they both speak.

This is...not the fish they are refering to.

[Varodoc]

Yeah, this fish is totally a reference to N'zoth. I think someone said something in the trailer as well, which is also a reference to N'zoth AND Alleria, because they both speak.

Eh? What are you even talking about? I am referring to the fish that appears at minute 1:35.

[ZyntosAran]

yes, it is nzoths fish. Its also the minion that nzoth spawns in hearthstone battlegrounds.

[Vakir]

What a coincidence, people here were talking about N'Zoth's fish form and now a red-eyed fish appears in Hearthstone. Is that a reference to the N'Zoth's fish form?

???

Didn't you double down saying this would involve heavy Old God and Nya'lotha presence and now it
clearly isn't?

That fish doesn't even resemble N'Zoth's. Red eyes on an intimidating enemy is a common trope.

If it's one he spawns in BG, all well and good, I don't touch that mode with a 10 foot pole. N'Zoth still isn't the primary focus.

[ZyntosAran]

???

Didn't you double down saying this would involve heavy Old God and Nya'lotha presence and now it
clearly isn't?

That fish doesn't even resemble N'Zoth's. Red eyes on an intimidating enemy is a common trope.

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...7Zoth_(golden)

[Varodoc]

???

Didn't you double down saying this would involve heavy Old God and Nya'lotha presence and now it
clearly isn't?

That fish doesn't even resemble N'Zoth's. Red eyes on an intimidating enemy is a common trope.

Literally just answer my question MMO-Champion, it's not hard.

Is the red-eyed, dark-scaled fish a reference to N'Zoth's fish form?

Yes or No

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...7Zoth_(golden)

Thank you, I take it that the answer is Yes.

[Makorus]

Eh? What are you even talking about? I am referring to the fish that appears at minute 1:35.

Slightly less ridiculous, but that fish looks nothing like the N'zoth fish either.

Edit: Welp, egg on my face, I guess. The shame of being proven wrong by Varodoc, how will I cope.

[Jokubas]

I intentionally left my last post to be based on art and models we actually have, but to indulge the speculation a bit more, I want to draw some other conclusions about what I said about the gold and silver cosmetics.

I wonder if the Jailer was always meant to be, well, the Jailer, and not the Arbiter. Something that's never addressed in the version of the story we have is who watched over the Maw before Zovaal was sent there, or why the Maw isn't just a prison or wasteland, but is conspicuously fragmented. My theory is that Zovaal was originally the Eternal One of the Maw, the Jailer of the Damned. He kept the rest of the Shadowlands safe from evil in prisons of golden spires.

At some point, however, he still turned evil. Perhaps it was even more like Sargeras, or the original Sargeras. Being the warden of such absolutely, terrifyingly evil souls destroyed Zovaal existentially, so he sought out the Sepulcher of the First Ones in order to remake reality without the potential for such evil. With the realms of the Eternal Ones reflecting their nature, as Zovaal turned bad, the gold faded and the Maw became desolate.

When his siblings learned about his desperate plan, like the Pantheon they turned against him to stop him. A war broke out, and the Maw was shattered. Ultimately, Zovaal lost and was chained in his own realm, then they sealed the place off and threw away the key.

[Super Dickmann]

When his siblings learned about his desperate plan, like the Pantheon they turned against him to stop him. A war broke out, and the Maw was shattered. Ultimately, Zovaal lost and was chained in his own realm, then they sealed the place off and threw away the key.

This seems likely as in the Beta there was text about what the Maw was before being the Maw, which are absent from the release version where the Maw is explicitly put together by the Jailer through a mixture of yanking parts of other afterlives and the residue of the soul that the Maw processes. That said I don't think that's exclusive with Zovaal being meant to be the Arbiter. Rather that Oribos, like the attendants and the artificial Arbiter are all substitutes for what was already there. Torghast was the original center of the Shadowlands, which is why all souls default to it.

[ZyntosAran]

Literally just answer my question MMO-Champion, it's not hard.

Is the red-eyed, dark-scaled fish a reference to N'Zoth's fish form?

Yes or No



Thank you, I take it that the answer is Yes.

yeah, it is not a reference to nzoths fish form, it is nzoths fish form

[Vakir]

Welp, wrap it up, everyone. N'Zoth is the big bad next. Just like how Descent of Dragons foreshadowed the dragon expac we're currently playing when they were revealed around the same time together.

Who can forget the incredible dungeon crawler based 8.0 that Kobolds and Catacombs foreshadowed?

But who can forget the 7.0 based around medieval knights and faires? The Grand Tournament really should've clued us in. I personally was shocked.

[Jokubas]

This seems likely as in the Beta there was text about what the Maw was before being the Maw, which are absent from the release version where the Maw is explicitly put together by the Jailer through a mixture of yanking parts of other afterlives and the residue of the soul that the Maw processes. That said I don't think that's exclusive with Zovaal being meant to be the Arbiter. Rather that Oribos, like the attendants and the artificial Arbiter are all substitutes for what was already there. Torghast was the original center of the Shadowlands, which is why all souls default to it.

Oh yeah, I forgot that with Korthia we sort of got an explanation for the shattered version of the Maw, but it's still a bit weird that even the places that were presumably always there (since it's treated as a realm that's always been there to hold evil souls) look just as shattered as any parts he yanked from elsewhere. I also forgot about those beta texts though.

Part of the reason I made that a separate post is because I realized I could take the theory in multiple directions and didn't want the theory I picked to distract from the points about the Maw and Domination motifs being associated with the Jailer from the beginning.

The point about everyone defaulting to Torghast is a really good point.

[Super Dickmann]

Oh yeah, I forgot that with Korthia we sort of got an explanation for the shattered version of the Maw, but it's still a bit weird that even the places that were presumably always there (since it's treated as a realm that's always been there to hold evil souls) look just as shattered as any parts he yanked from elsewhere. I also forgot about those beta texts though.

Part of the reason I made that a separate post is because I realized I could take the theory in multiple directions and didn't want the theory I picked to distract from the points about the Maw and Domination motifs being associated with the Jailer from the beginning.

The point about everyone defaulting to Torghast is a really good point.

In the release version, there's basically two additive reasons for the expansion of the Maw. The first method is the Jailer yanking more material from afterlives with the chains of Torghast, the other is the one from the 9.0 Maw quest where the ground is made out of the clumped together residue of processed souls. The implication is that Torghast was always there and served as the Jailer's prison and that of other irredeemable souls, as was the Maw 'cloud', but the actual landmass was created by the Jailer later on. This makes sense too since while Torghast serves a purpose as a prison/torture chamber for souls, the Maw as we see it really doesn't and is more of an expansive military outpost.

[Chickat]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53592046

That should be most of it.

Ah that one was believable but quite boring. Ashes lives!

[Jokubas]

In the release version, there's basically two additive reasons for the expansion of the Maw. The first method is the Jailer yanking more material from afterlives with the chains of Torghast, the other is the one from the 9.0 Maw quest where the ground is made out of the clumped together residue of processed souls. The implication is that Torghast was always there and served as the Jailer's prison and that of other irredeemable souls, as was the Maw 'cloud', but the actual landmass was created by the Jailer later on. This makes sense too since while Torghast serves a purpose as a prison/torture chamber for souls, the Maw as we see it really doesn't and is more of an expansive military outpost.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense.

Still, I am convinced we got a different story than what was originally planned, and I don't just mean in my usual "the story is being drafted a bit on the fly" sort of way.

The concept art and 9.1 cosmetics show a golden version of the Maw motifs. We actively see souls go straight for Torghast when not redirected by Oribos.

It all paints a picture of a golden, good "Maw" led by a golden, good Zovaal, who eventually fell for whatever reason, and his realm darkened with him or upon his defeat. With Torghast no longer a place to rely on, Oribos and the Arbiter were built to redirect souls from their natural path to anywhere but the original destination (unless they're heinous enough). Domination magic slots in nicely as the reason he was punished, rather than how he was punished.

[Varodoc]

Welp, wrap it up, everyone. N'Zoth is the big bad next. Just like how Descent of Dragons foreshadowed the dragon expac we're currently playing when they were revealed around the same time together.

Who can forget the incredible dungeon crawler based 8.0 that Kobolds and Catacombs foreshadowed?

But who can forget the 7.0 based around medieval knights and faires? The Grand Tournament really should've clued us in. I personally was shocked.

Dude, are you anti-social/anti-fun? It was just me noticing the coincidence/timing, because just earlier today we were talking about N'Zoth's fish form. It's literally just a coincidence I noticed.

Not everything has a double meaning, Jesus.

[Chickat]

Really hoping 9.2.5 brings some great casual mechanisms into play and gets people excited about coming back to prepare for 10.0. A reason that isn't directly tied to 9.2 and its content, or preferably the Shadowlands at all.



Hmm, maybe we'll overshoot it.

Team 9.2.5 World revamp.