Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Osmeric]

as it does being evil birds from outer space.

No game-vs-game comparisons!

[Yossarian]

The only real leak:
— No real wildly known title yet, internally known as "the new beginnings"

— No full world revamp, but some zones and many sub-zones are revamped or updated since many events and world quest-like content happening all over the world. Showcase revamped locations are Lordraeron and Tanaris.

— Dragon Isles are endgame zone, very reminiscent of shrines in Dragonblight

— No new races, AR or classes at the start. Instead we get slight class revamp, manly focused on specs which are much softer now and many of which are merged and/or expended. Showcase is Mage which have frost and fire combined while arcane expanded to accommodate buff/debuff and other support stuff; and Warrior which have arms and prot combined while fury I'd completely reworked.

— Talents also reworked and present much more significant choices for your playstyle.

— More emphasis on diverse and fun gear and also craft professions.

— demo/alpha targeted briefly after announcement with Tanaris and only couple of classes available.

some other leak of the past months came up with Tanaris being revamped and at the beginning of the expansion, not referring specifically to the Caverns of Time
I don't remember which leak it was, if already debunked or not

could be a real hint? or this is just a reproposition of that old fake leak?

[Nokster10]

The way people latch on to any mediocre white male character in warcraft is inspiring, honestly

Pretty sure race and skin color has nothing to do with it, but nice try, racist.

[Shadochi]

some other leak of the past months came up with Tanaris being revamped and at the beginning of the expansion, not referring specifically to the Caverns of Time
I don't remember which leak it was, if already debunked or not

could be a real hint? or this is just a reproposition of that old fake leak?

Revamped Gadgetzan has been a wish for some time to be more equal to the Heartstone giant city. That would also require a revamp of Tanaris to bring it inline with the larger city. And with Tanaris being the homezone of Caverns of Time, a prominent dragon location, it has always in some way also found its way in a Dragon expansion that has been a topic for past couple of cycles. Also works as a connection point to bridge the theme between dragons and tinkers.

This is just what I remember based on memory of the previous few expansion discussion cycles. @Fahrad Wagner might remeber something I'm forgetting

[Seasz]

They ruined Bolvar for no reason in SL to prop up that dumb bitch Sylvanas, and took a low blow to Arthas for the final insult.

Danuser and his team are utter human garbage. I do not say that lightly. The sheer lack of regard and care for the standing lore and its fans is palpable.

Incelthas deserved that and even less

[Fahrad Wagner]

Revamped Gadgetzan has been a wish for some time to be more equal to the Heartstone giant city. That would also require a revamp of Tanaris to bring it inline with the larger city. And with Tanaris being the homezone of Caverns of Time, a prominent dragon location, it has always in some way also found its way in a Dragon expansion that has been a topic for past couple of cycles. Also works as a connection point to bridge the theme between dragons and tinkers.

This is just what I remember based on memory of the previous few expansion discussion cycles. @Fahrad Wagner might remeber something I'm forgetting

This is it mainly yes, ever since Mean Streets of Gadgetzan came out in HS many in the community have wished for a Gadgetzan à la Suramar kind of zone. However if zone are to be revamped, I would think they would come up with zones for which assets are already available? Which is not the case for Tanaris as 1. goblin assets were not updated 2. Farraki assets were not updated aside from a gong present in Zuldazar 3. the architecture of the Cavern of Times is quite unique and challenging too. That being said, they could also revamp that zone and create new assets from scratch, if that zone is to be used as a complete new zone and not just some side-dish revamped zones. It would be very interesting to see anyway, and could be the bridge between a new Tinker class and a new Dragon expansion (both themes have been mixed up in many leaks lately).

That being said I believe none of the leaks are real so far, real leaks tend to pop up much closer to the announcement date, so I wouldn't expect anything to leak before at least another two or three weeks.

[Makabreska]

I think Arthas send off was good. What else should happen? A ghost of him appear and go like "lol forgive me"? Or more Garrosh style "I regret nothing"? Get him send to Arbiter again for some happy lil redemption? A battered, amorphous soul remnant dissipating to a moody melody was great and did not ruin his ending from the past. Now, if it only was not Sylvi who did the send off...

[Vakir]

The way people latch on to any mediocre white male character in warcraft is inspiring, honestly

While I don't think he needed to be involved in SL at all and that people need to move the hell on, I think calling Arthas mediocre is just disingenuous and also a lazy shortcut for more "yaas kween"-ing.

Unless you meant Bolvar, in which case, absolutely - but part of the problem is that they marketed him front and center, slapped him on the box, and did fucking nothing with him, which is kind of on them. That is kind of a casualty of bad writing and doesn't feel intended, moreso than anyone latching.

Incelthas deserved that and even less

This, though...this I'm fascinated to hear more on. Please, enlighten us.

[Shadochi]

I think Arthas send off was good. What else should happen? A ghost of him appear and go like "lol forgive me"? Or more Garrosh style "I regret nothing"? Get him send to Arbiter again for some happy lil redemption? A battered, amorphous soul remnant dissipating to a moody melody was great and did not ruin his ending from the past. Now, if it only was not Sylvi who did the send off...

I believe this is way more of an issue (the Sylvi part) than him just being shown as an Anima Orb. Doing anything further with him in SL would just be another "Break Glass" scenario, but feels bad having her take all the spotlight when more important figures in his life were there (Jaina and Uther).

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Unless you meant Bolvar, in which case, absolutely - but part of the problem is that they marketed him front and center, slapped him on the box, and did fucking nothing with him, which is kind of on them. That is kind of a casualty of bad writing and doesn't feel intended, moreso than anyone latching.

Um he wasn't slapped on a box, SL was actually the first one that didn't have any character at all (not even generic) on the box. But I understand what you mean, going into the expansion people assumed he would have a Magni/Khadgar role, but seems like they stepped down from having one character like that.

[Vakir]

Um he wasn't slapped on a box, SL was actually the first one that didn't have any character at all (not even generic) on the box. But I understand what you mean, going into the expansion people assumed he would have a Magni/Khadgar role, but seems like they stepped down from having one character like that.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wor...s_Base_Edition
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/3dr0dE

Nobody, NOBODY bought this physical, so it's possible he wasn't on it afterall, but it was intended to be so.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I believe this is way more of an issue (the Sylvi part) than him just being shown as an Anima Orb. Doing anything further with him in SL would just be another "Break Glass" scenario, but feels bad having her take all the spotlight when more important figures in his life were there (Jaina and Uther).

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Um he wasn't slapped on a box, SL was actually the first one that didn't have any character at all (not even generic) on the box. But I understand what you mean, going into the expansion people assumed he would have a Magni/Khadgar role, but seems like they stepped down from having one character like that.

I think this is because Sylvanas was the last one who still needed to have peace over Arthas though. Jaina made her peace over him during the BfA questline, Uther in SL... out of the three, I think she was the one who deserved closure the more, especially when acknowleding she had become the monster he was once.

I disliked many things about SL storytelling... but that cinematic I liked!

[Hyrja]

The primus actually is the jailer isnt he? What a plot twist lol.

[Baedril]

Why would that alienate the playerbase? I am not being sassy here, just asking to understand your full thought.

I am obviously not that guy, but my personal gripe with is the merging of classes. As much as I can see why they might want to do it, I definitely feel like that would alienate a lot of people. People don't want to be a retribution warrior, or priest, they want to be and *are* a paladin and I can't really imagine any mergers that would not leave people from the original class upset.

[TheFirstOnes]

*Writes poorly.*

"Actual human garbage. Serious disgrace. My priorities are not skewed in the slightest."

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Anything that isn't literally first alpha build no changes is going to alienate the playerbase, if my reading of MMO-Champion posts is correct and informed.

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Some of us are still coping and trying to pretend this story won't be entirely built on oneupsmanshp and retcons.

Considering Marvel, DC, and Dragon Ball do this on the daily almost...

I'm not shocked WoW's doing this too.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I am obviously not that guy, but my personal gripe with is the merging of classes. As much as I can see why they might want to do it, I definitely feel like that would alienate a lot of people. People don't want to be a retribution warrior, or priest, they want to be and *are* a paladin and I can't really imagine any mergers that would not leave people from the original class upset.

Ah, in that sense. I thought he was referring to a world revamp alienating players, hence my confusion. Merging classes would be a terrible decision, and it would definitely upset people, on that we agree!

[Kiria]

I think this is because Sylvanas was the last one who still needed to have peace over Arthas though. Jaina made her peace over him during the BfA questline, Uther in SL... out of the three, I think she was the one who deserved closure the more, especially when acknowleding she had become the monster he was once.

I disliked many things about SL storytelling... but that cinematic I liked!

You have hit the nail on the head, Uther and Jaina have gotten over what Arthas did them and they have found peace, Sylvanas was the only character who hadn't had the chance too.

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

10.0 is a soft reboot called Lightbound. Lordaeron is the main setting with a new leveling experience. It is its own continent so old Lordaeron still exists. New Lordaeron has a different shape since the zones aren’t 1:1. The New Lordaeron has been built up in a way that mixes both the Cataclysm revamp and the way Draenor was built off of Outland. The foundation for 10.0 has been worked on since after Legion, which is why people have datamined so many human related architecture over the years. It was originally going to be 9.0 with Shadowlands being the following expansion but some delays when working on Lordaeron in 2017 led to Shadowlands being made first. Lightbound was originally supposed to help build up the Jailor, the Shadowlands, and the mystery of the First Ones. Exile’s Reach originally was going to be about Lightbound ogres from Highmaul invading Azeroth rather than necromancers.

No other zones offer experience anymore. There is a leveling phase and a max level phase. Level 60 characters have things to do in all zones except for Exile’s Reach which was added in Shadowlands. Player cities in brackets.

01-10: Exile’s Reach
01-10: Arathor (Stormgarde)
01-10: Ebon Enclave (New Avalon)
10-20: Hillsbrad Foothills
10-20: The Channel Islands
20-30: Silverpine Forest
20-30: Zul’Dare
30-40: Alterac Mountains (Alterac)
30-40: Eastern Highlands (Hammerfall)
40-45: The Hinterlands (Aerie Peak)
40-45: Scarlet Coast
45-50: Gilneas (Gilneas)
45-50: Crushridge
50-53: Eastweald (Stratholme)
52-55: Tol Barad
54-57: The Ghostlands
56-59: Sunwell Isle
58-60: Zul’Aman
60-60: The Dragon Isles
60-60: Lordaeron
60-60: Quel’thalas

Level squish to 50. The original goal was to squish the levels back to 10 so even old players would have to level through all of Lordaeron's story, but now that Shadowlands brought in a squish already it's believed there would be a very negative response to going even further next time. The total level squishing and Chromie time was never intended to be a permanent change but instead a temporary band-aid while the new leveling system was worked on. Similarly old profession recipes and their related resources are becoming cosmetic only, making Lordaeron the only viable place for gameplay-enhancing profession work.

There are new dungeons from 15-60 (all with heroic and mythic level 60 versions). It's not yet decided whether old dungeons will be available to new players yet or if only the new dungeons will reward experience and gear.

Main story is focused on the Lightbound; a coalition of Yrel’s orc and draenei forces, Calia Menethil’s ‘new’ forsaken, Turalyon’s Alliance (which has conquered Silvermoon with the help of Liadrin), and the Scarlet Brotherhood. They are all working to drain Azeroth’s world soul to empower Xe’ra. The first raid is in a rebuilt holy Lordaeron City.

3 new neutral races; Dracona, Amani Trolls, Alteracis.

Classes and professions getting completely reworked. There are now no limits on how many professions you can have per character and progress is shared across all characters. Some classes are being merged making 5-6 spec classes with some shared traits and abilities. The number is being lowered from 12 to 8 classes. A few new specs for the classes that were not merged with another.

Cross faction guilds and grouping. No city, town, or quest in Lordaeron is faction locked. Previous expansion content is still faction locked.

New battleground set in Kul Tiras. Sides are auto-balanced and not Horde vs. Alliance. Previous battlegrounds are so far unchanged.

This has got to have some of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen in a leak. Instead of a new class, they will remove classes? A new level squish after the last one. Alteracis? What even is that, besides a play on Alterac? Just so much bad in one "leak."

[Sondrelk]

You have hit the nail on the head, Uther and Jaina have gotten over what Arthas did them and they have found peace, Sylvanas was the only character who hadn't had the chance too.

Problem is that we don't really get Sylvanas accepting she became worse than Arthas, instead seemingly deciding to take a place of moral superiority when her character is already heavily disliked for her horrible morality in the game.

[Khaza-R]

I think Arthas send off was good. What else should happen? A ghost of him appear and go like "lol forgive me"? Or more Garrosh style "I regret nothing"? Get him send to Arbiter again for some happy lil redemption? A battered, amorphous soul remnant dissipating to a moody melody was great and did not ruin his ending from the past. Now, if it only was not Sylvi who did the send off...

I think people disliked that it was predominately about Sylvanas with Jaina and Uther present. I think it just exacerbated people's concerns the story this expansion is entirely too focused on Sylvanas. You could argue Uther had closure of sorts when he dropped him in the Maw but not for his repentance after. And Jaina never had any closure I am aware of. While Sylvanas closure was detailed in the Edge of Night. We really didn't need more of her dialogue on the situation.

I know there are people who probably wanted to see Arthas actually speak or do something himself, but I agree his original story had a perfect ending. The less they touched on it the better in the end.

[Revamp Man]

The way people latch on to any mediocre white male character in warcraft is inspiring, honestly

Or the fact the Lich King who was shown in legion and BfA to be a heavy hitter was reduced to a magni role

Then Arthas who you could argue was important to every character there got relegated to a little orb while Sylvanas goes “you hurt me so I committed genocide and only now do I get closure despite that being a thing over a decade ago because I’m a deep and complex character”