1. #29801
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Why are we still pitching in the random idea that the First Ones are order beings, despite clearly...not being that?
    I think they are a combination of all the different cosmic powers. You had the oracle in this week's quests talking in languages from each of the powers. Then the cosmic energy pools on the ground (in the resonant peaks area where the quests take place) have a grey or silvery color to them, which is a neutral color.

  2. #29802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Well they certainly do like going around ordering things, so there isn't really a whole lot else to go on. If we try to extrapolate based on what we see them create then the next best guess is that they are representing the force of Orbs.

    Really it's because the First Ones are blatantly Titans 2.0, and Titans were explained as beings of order.
    Titans used to just be godlike beings, but really the first ones are just too similar to the Titans to really have their own niche.
    Tbh I was expecting a twist once we reach ZM that the Titans ARE the First Ones... and not this entity above what we knew as some of the most powerful beings. But that theory fell to water as soon as the language in ZM is this new one and Titanic. (tbh I still think Primus based some of his domination language off of the Runic Language of the first ones based on info he could probably get from Brokers about ZM)
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  3. #29803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    nah, seems more like he just grap things we already knew was true, some speculations and larp himself into it

  4. #29804
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Tbh I was expecting a twist once we reach ZM that the Titans ARE the First Ones... and not this entity above what we knew as some of the most powerful beings. But that theory fell to water as soon as the language in ZM is this new one and Titanic. (tbh I still think Primus based some of his domination language off of the Runic Language of the first ones based on info he could probably get from Brokers about ZM)
    My guess is that we will learn something new about the Titans that will link them more firmly to the First Ones. The fact that they are born in reality and not in a dedicated realm of order certainly makes them distinct from the death pantheon and such.
    And of course the whole Constellar working for the first ones/Argus turning into Constellar thing that happens during his fight.
    Could just be a random thing we are not supposed to think about, but I imagine there is something there to build from.

    If I were to guess I would have said that the First Ones reincarnated as Titans, just without their memories for whatever reason. Would explain why they are so different from the Death pantheon, and why they seem to have powers beyond just Order, like Argus controlling death, or Einar controlling Life.
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  5. #29805
    I don't know if this Wowhead article has been discussed(I'd be surprised if it hasn't), but just wanted to share my thoughts:

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/what-if...ge=11#p5342468

    Thoughts reading this:
    No mention of the drust. They also use domination magic, no? They put masks on their victims to gain control. The Primus is using a mask(according to this article). So there's a connection there too. And doesn't trust magic kind of look like the domination magic when it fades from Anduin and Zovaal?

    It's safe to say that a patch has been scrapped in Shadowlands. What would actually play out in that patch? What was the raid supposed to be and how would that tie in to this speculation?

    Denathrius is the father of the dreadlords(or big brother, if The Primus is the father). That means he probably knows how to take the form of other creatures himself - just like the dreadlords. So maybe he is walking around helping the Primus from the shadows and disguised as someone else?

  6. #29806
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    But that cinematic was so flat that I doubt they're gonna leave us sitting for a year on that.
    Well no, most likely you will see next CGI cinematic in month.

    Wouldn't make sense to do something like 7.3.5 story bridge. Jailer cinematic is lame, but still closure, Arbiter/Sylvanas threads will be likely resolved in last chapter/epilogue, no point to start 10.0 story 6+ months before pre-patch.

    But still hope 9.2.5 will be more than just cross faction from gameplay perspective. Personally I want cross faction trading (since I have characters on both sides on single realm) and Chromie time for 50-60. And some catch ups (like trading grateful offerings between chars or catalyst tier pieces from zereth mortis gear), but that could be done in hotfix.

  7. #29807
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Would explain why they are so different from the Death pantheon, and why they seem to have powers beyond just Order, like Argus controlling death, or Einar controlling Life.
    This has never been depicted as being the case for any other cosmic force. None of them solely use their own force.

    Demons actively use both the Void and Death powers in addition to their native Chaos. To begin with their forces are built out of people from other forces and mortals.
    Old Gods actively use and manipulate Life powers in addition to their own native Void.
    1/4 of Death is basically just Life powers.
    The Light actively shifts into the Void and vice versa. It is also closely tied to Life.
    Life uses literally everything, and Elune as seemingly its only confirmed pantheon member, uses both Order and Void powers in addition to her base Life.

  8. #29808
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    I wish they would expand upon Decay and Spirit more.


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  9. #29809
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Scrambling to rewrite everything would be a clear explanation for alot including why the rendered cinematics of the style of BfA vanished after the Sylvanas Bolvar one.

  10. #29810
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Also I love how he doesn't give anything tangible about the expansion to "not ruin the surprise. Fuck me sideways, a half decent effort from the devs would be the surprise at this point.
    That was my take as well. You're able to spoil all this stuff about Shadowlands, but you can only say the code name of the upcoming patch? You can't mention 9.2.5? Like, you're already messed up with the NDA, go full hog if you're legit.

  11. #29811
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Scrambling to rewrite everything would be a clear explanation for alot including why the rendered cinematics of the style of BfA vanished after the Sylvanas Bolvar one.
    We had Beyond the Veil after the Sylvanas and Bolvar one
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  12. #29812
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    We had Beyond the Veil after the Sylvanas and Bolvar one
    Sorry forgot that for some reason.

  13. #29813
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I hold my skepticism, but will say it's a fun read.

    I especially like the Anduin being Arthas and Jaina's lovechild thing. Not something I ever see Blizzard ever actually doing, totally in the realm of fan service like the whole Anduin/Wrathion shipping, but still a cool twist to consider in that respect.

    I like the outlines of what raids could have been too. Would've been neat to consider.

    Also like the jab at Tinkers.

  14. #29814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I hold my skepticism, but will say it's a fun read.

    I especially like the Anduin being Arthas and Jaina's lovechild thing. Not something I ever see Blizzard ever actually doing, totally in the realm of fan service like the whole Anduin/Wrathion shipping, but still a cool twist to consider in that respect.

    I like the outlines of what raids could have been too. Would've been neat to consider.

    Also like the jab at Tinkers.
    tbh that has been a fan theory for a while now, and people were thinking they were saving Arthas for that
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  15. #29815
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    tbh that has been a fan theory for a while now, and people were thinking they were saving Arthas for that
    It's one of those 'probably bullshit, but I buy it' theories.

    I always found it weird that Anduin has bright blond hair while Varian had dark brown. I always felt like it was 'the seed is strong' parallel that they never really carried into fruition.

    But if it actually happened, I think it'd absolutely suck since it means the royal line of Wrynn would be completely broken. I hold Lothar's sacrifice in high regard in the lore, and I'd hate to see it thrown away because of edgy plot twists. We have enough lore being squandered away for that reason already.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-03-18 at 10:47 PM.

  16. #29816
    We are just about a month away (today being the 18th) from the announcement! I am very excited. Hoping for the best. I just want an expansion that makes me feel like playing all the way through instead of a week here and there (Shadowlands).

  17. #29817
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's one of those 'probably bullshit, but I buy it' theories.

    I always found it weird that Anduin has bright blond hair while Varian had dark brown. I always felt like it was 'the seed is strong' parallel that they never really carried into fruition.

    But if it actually happened, I think it'd absolutely suck since it means the royal line of Wrynn would be completely broken. I hold Lothar's sacrifice in high regard in the lore, and I'd hate to see it thrown away because of edgy plot twists. We have enough lore being squandered away for that reason already.
    It's not too crazy that Anduin has blone hair. His mother's been a blonde since at least as long as the old WoW comics.

  18. #29818
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscipleofCazicThule View Post
    It's not too crazy that Anduin has blone hair. His mother's been a blonde since at least as long as the old WoW comics.
    Dark hair is generally a dominant gene. Yes, there are cases where you could get a blonde haired child from parents who have brown and blonde, but that depends if the brown hair person has the blonde-hair genes in them. If they don't, the child's hair would be brown. If they do, then it's still only a chance that the child's hair would be blonde.

    Which is why the theory makes sense, since it's playing on 'the Seed is Strong' plot twist.

  19. #29819
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Dark hair is generally a dominant gene. Yes, there are cases where you could get a blonde haired child from parents who have brown and blonde, but that depends if the brown hair person has the blonde-hair genes in them. If they don't, the child's hair would be brown. If they do, then it's still only a chance that the child's hair would be blonde.

    Which is why the theory makes sense, since it's playing on 'the Seed is Strong' plot twist.
    Not really. The theory makes little sense either way. You'd have a point if Anduin's hair was to dark, but he's not outside the viable range for his parents.

  20. #29820
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Not really. The theory makes little sense either way. You'd have a point if Anduin's hair was to dark, but he's not outside the viable range for his parents.
    Blonde hair is a recessive gene, and that doesn't change whether Anduin has pure-blonde or dark-blonde hair.

    Anduin's hair doesn't have to be darker to many any point. Blonde hair is a recessive gene, and we haven't seen any other Blonde characters in the Wrynn line of succession. Only Tiffin has been shown to be Blonde. It's only implied that Varian has Blonde hair gene in his lineage since Anduin has Blonde hair. We haven't seen any evidence to support this otherwise.

    You are correct that he's not outside the viable range. It's just a rare occurance considering we haven't seen any other Blonde Wrynn characters, and the theory would work because the rarity of the condition could be considered as a potential plot twist hook. I mean honestly, there's little reason why Anduin wasn't introduced as a Brunette like his father and grandfather.

    That being said, I also cast doubt on there being any significance in the hair color beyond an art director simply liking the color. Greymane's fur color has been depicted differently in-game in WoW, in concept art, in Heroes of the Storm and in cinematics/promotional art. Malfurion and Tyrande have had multiple hair color changes over the years as well, going from the blue hair in WC3 to variations of teal and vibrant green as we have now. I wouldn't expect this to be something seeded into Anduin's original history. I think he was always meant to be Varian's son, and any changes to his history would be done after his introduction to WoW rather than be planned as a plot twist from the beginning.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-03-19 at 12:29 AM.

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