Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Shadochi]

I agree with you. I think Epilogue is coming in 9.2 (2 weeks).

I've posted this a million times but here it is again from Wowhead (for context). https://www.wowhead.com/news/steve-d...tch-9-2-325990

"We’re very excited about how that story culminates. It will play out in a chapter of the Covenant campaign that we didn’t put out on the test realm for a specific reason: because we wanted to hold back that final piece to the story for players to discover as they play through the content.”

Never is it mentioned that this would happen AFTER 9.2. Just not available on the 9.2 PTR. Also, Steve has said in a recent tweet 2 weeks ago that Shadowlands would have a conclusion (whether it's this chapter or additional story (9.2.5, CGI, or otherwise...who knows?).

is this interview from before or after they removed the Judgement chapter from the campaign tho? Since it was originally in the achievement but during PTR it got removed. IIRC the 9.1 final chapter also wasn't testable but it was still in the achievement

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Imagine if the next logical step was for Sylvanas to be challenged and growing after being brought into the fold as a major player and needing to bring down the self-preservation walls rather than it just...being the setup for a Valkyr-making lantern that goes effectively nowhere, followed by some tower world PvP quests.

They proceeded instead to follow Edge of Night up with her suddenly taking wildly irrational actions as early as mid-Cataclysm leveling that would make her even more of a target to die and go to Turbo Hell with the only reprieve from consequences being that the writers kind of forgot for there to be any.

People talk about Fantasy Kerrigan a lot, but the seeds were there for her to be different from Kerrigan in the first place, and they didn't take them and just moved in the direction of making her MORE like the SC2 incarnation. It's frustrating. Say what you want about what happened in Legacy of the Void, but at least Kerrigan got to have justice towards Mengsk at the end of her game. Sylvanas misses the boat to get resolution in favor of Tirion, has a fascinating story introduced by Kosack, and then spends the next 8 years being Dick Dastardly before spontaneously everyone decides "Oh, it was actually THIS guy and not Arthas" and reverts her back to being exclusively about her trauma.

And then they just piss on it more by...effectively making her not the same character by way of the soul splitting and over-softening her, all while still holding this new version of her up to the light way, way too often. It's sad.

Adding to that, they also pretty explicitly missed a pretty good excuse for anything she does during Battle for Azeroth—Azerite. They had the obvious, gleaming MacGuffin right in their faces which could feasibly be asspulled (along with every other vague, transitory property Azerite had) into a potential means of restoring the Forsaken's forms or creating more Val'Kyr. They had the dangling plotline of Helya, still unresolved, to give her motivation to potentially make a trade for motivation even in the absence of the nebulous powers that Azerite could grant her—Azerite for Helya's Val'Kyr. There's all sorts of things they could've done with this plot, all of which would potentially resolve Sylvanas' plotline and lead her to carry out the same actions throughout BfA with a far more sensible and interesting motive. Every action re-framed as desperation instead of part of a larger plan would give her far more in the way of personality and motive, and her desperation could finally lead her into the clutches of Zovaal's manipulations—instead of just having retroactively been in league with the Jailer since Edge of Night, she instead could've simply ended up being introduced to him by Helya right as things seemed darkest for Sylvanas. With no other option, she would be pressured into helping Zovaal under the misguided impression that this could allow her to preserve a future for her people in a world where Death rules reality—in that way, she'd fulfill her old creed.

"Death to the Scourge, and death to the living."

Furthermore, it would also give a real reason for her to suddenly have an epiphany that Zovaal, the evil guy with the chain motif, is actually a bad guy—instead of only then realizing his malevolent intentions, she could instead realize only in the moment that he directly quotes Arthas that she has given up everything she once stood for in the name of survival and finally return to her previous commitments instead of becoming everything she hated. Rather than being repentant for burning Teldrassil or other things that Sylvanas would gladly do in any incarnation of the character, she simply realizes only then that she has no real future—having betrayed both her few actual values and lost her opportunity to survive, Sylvanas gives up and allows herself to be punished.

Essentially, this entire plot could've taken the exact same actions and steps for a far more satisfying conclusion—all it needed was clear motives that were consistent with her previous decisions.

[Vakir]

@Le Conceptuel

Also better than what we got!

As an alternative, when I saw the art of her in front of the burning World Tree at the panel reveal, I was so certain, if it was her that did it, that we were going to get a pivotal moment where perhaps she brought Azerite in without full understanding of the degree of its potency. Maybe as a deterrent. "If you stand in our way of securing this to force a peace, I will be forced to use it." And then in a misunderstanding or a chaotic moment, a catapault empowered with it is released, and the entire tree goes up in seconds when it was never intended to. Sylvanas watches in horror as any possibility of a forced peace burns before her. She is now even more under the gun, they're coming for her and her people (and Zoidberg the Horde) and everything is worse now. She's forced to play the villain and use the cards she still has to fight this dead-end war that'll endanger her and her people. There's no way out.

LOL NOPE, SHE'S JUST CRAAAAAAZY. And also the least-deceptive looking Satan ever was involved too.

And then people put it all on a sex pest's writing as an excuse when...nope, the writing done by the newer people is also trash.

The only physical version this time was the CE, there is no boxed edition otherwise.

Got it. He was still intended as the key art and "cover" as indicated by the Artstation of the guy who made it.

They did nothing in this expansion with anyone that wasn't Anduin and Sylvanas, and that's pretty endemic of the issue.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

As an alternative, when I saw the art of her in front of the burning World Tree at the panel reveal, I was so certain, if it was her, that we were going to get a pivotal moment where perhaps she brought Azerite in without full understanding of the degree of its potency. Maybe as a deterrent. "If you stand in our way of securing this to force a peace, I will be forced to use it." And then in a misunderstanding or a chaotic moment, a catapault empowered with it is released, and the entire tree goes up in seconds when it was never intended to. Sylvanas watches in horror as any possibility of a forced peace burns before her. She is now even more under the gun, they're coming for her and her people (and Zoidberg the Horde) and everything is worse now. She's forced to play the villain and use the cards she still has to fight this dead-end that'll endanger her and her people. There's no way out.

I actually did write/have been further writing a rewrite with that as the premise for Sylvanas' arc. Teldrassil is an accident after a bombardment goes wrong and a large stash of Azerite goes up like dynamite, setting Teldrasil on fire and sending Sylvanas even deeper into her desperation, with her sanity explicitly waning over the course of the story as she does everything in her power to preserve her life, eventually becoming her own undoing as her attempts to save herself end up putting Sylvanas in the crosshairs for everybody.

If I were to actually have written BfA from the get-go, that's 100% what I'd do. Sylvanas is a tinpot dictator with serious thanatophobia who is using the Horde as a bulwark to ensure her survival, gradually becoming increasingly kooky as time goes on because she's running out of options.

[MrFrag]

Our latest villains N'zoth and Jailer, both were trying to bend the reality. It's possible that Blizzard might be able to reset all Azeroth in the series to build up much stronger storyline. Bronze and Infinite Dragonflights are in the place to save the storyline anytime. I hope they use those opportunies. I'm not referring a total reset, a smart reset with a good story.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Our latest villains N'zoth and Jailer, both were trying to bend the reality. It's possible that Blizzard might be able to reset all Azeroth in the series to build up much stronger storyline. Bronze and Infinite Dragonflights are in the place to save the storyline anytime. I hope they use those opportunies. I'm not referring a total reset, a smart reset with a good story.

The issue is that the storyline isn't so much the issue as the bad worldbuilding decisions—it's far easier to salvage the Burning of Teldrassil than, say, the Lich King being a proxy of Zovaal this whole time.

[Catastrophy349]

I would like to share my very own bit of head-canon. To be completely upfront and honest, these ideas are my own and created based on a few questions asked by the community.

What if:
1). Steve Danuser has said, many times, the words “wait and see.” When Blizzard announced the roadmap for the Warcraft universe, someone commented that they would like to be excited; however, they are worried because of how the Sepulcher (Shadowlands ending) concluded. His response was basically something along the lines of “Well, I say this because I can’t provide specificity without giving away potential spoilers. As for the ending of Shadowlands, it will have a conclusion (The Jailer cinematic was not it).”

Analysis:
1). Many think that the “Epilogue: Judgement” chapter of the 9.2 story has been omitted and put into a 9.2.5 patch. However, I don’t believe this. In an interview posted on Wowhead (I linked it yesterday), Danuser says that the chapter was purposely removed from the PTR not to spoil Sylvanas’ story and how the campaign ends in 9.2. He said that he was excited for players to see what happens. Now, the 7/8 chapter releases on LIVE next week, March 22, 2022. IF I am correct, the 8/8 chapter would release on March 29, 2022 (the following week since each week is a new chapter), to conclude the campaign and Sylvanas’ story. What else releases on March 29, 2022? The Sylvanas Book.

Yes, you may be asking “Well, if the 8/8 chapter releases on the 29th, why is it hidden from the achievements/campaign section of our quest journal?”

You would be correct; however, I think this is intentional to build HYPE/suspense for when it finally does go LIVE. Furthermore, depending on what is said in the Sylvanas book, there could be a connection with the 8/8 chapter.

To conclude my crazy head-canon, Danuser’s “wait and see” comments would make a lot more sense. Of course, I could be incredibly wrong; however, I strongly believe in my justification. Time will tell.

Any thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

is this interview from before or after they removed the Judgement chapter from the campaign tho? Since it was originally in the achievement but during PTR it got removed. IIRC the 9.1 final chapter also wasn't testable but it was still in the achievement

Interview came out on Feb 18 (4 days before Patch).

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Vassal of life could be a few different people. I'm not sure which of these have green eyes.

1. Ysera
2. Alexstrasza
3. Elune
4. Eonar
5. Freya.

As far as anyone knows, the Vassal is almost certainly a Dreadlord or an agent thereof, so it may not be someone we've met yet and it's unlikely to be a Dragon. "Eyes of Green" sounds more like envy than an actual physical description.

[Varodoc]

In the Dragon Isles, major spotlight for the Ren'dorei can be expected.

It is stated in their Intro cutscene that the Ren'dorei have resisted the whispers that bent even the wills of Dragons. The Ren'dorei know something that the Dragons do not and thus they will play a major role in the Dragon Isles expansion, which by the way is the next expansion.

[Shadochi]

As far as anyone knows, the Vassal is almost certainly a Dreadlord or an agent thereof, so it may not be someone we've met yet and it's unlikely to be a Dragon. "Eyes of Green" sounds more like envy than an actual physical description.

Funny how after all the memes throughout the years, turns out Jaina is the only one that isn't a Dreadlord

[Raetary]

Funny how after all the memes throughout the years, turns out Jaina is the only one that isn't a Dreadlord

That's just what the dreadlords want you to think.

[ChairmanKaga]

They did nothing in this expansion with anyone that wasn't Anduin and Sylvanas, and that's pretty endemic of the issue.

That lends credence, for me, to that 4chan post about cuts to everything. I can't remember an expac before with so many unused major characters just standing around.

[Shadochi]

That lends credence, for me, to that 4chan post about cuts to everything. I can't remember an expac before with so many unused major characters just standing around.

The OP goes against what he said so many times in that thread that it just screams leak. Also the fact that he has info about story and sales while he wasn't in any of those departments.

[Nokster10]

In the Dragon Isles, major spotlight for the Ren'dorei can be expected.

It is stated in their Intro cutscene that the Ren'dorei have resisted the whispers that bent even the wills of Dragons. The Ren'dorei know something that the Dragons do not and thus they will play a major role in the Dragon Isles expansion, which by the way is the next expansion.

Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.

[huth]

Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.

Ren'dorei is the elven name. Both are correct. That's also the only part of his post that is.

[Syegfryed]

A problem of adding more elves in the game or giving then spotlight are things like this, the fanabase just can't get a break, they keep wanting more and more until the story/game is ruined.

[Foolicious]

Something i noticed during all this secret chapter campaign talk going it that apparently they moved the timeline of zovaals defeat. We get a quest to defeat him after we forge the crown of wills. So the last two chapters take place after his defeat.
When on the ptr the campaign ended with the new arbiter telling us in a cutscene that the last step to restore the shadowlands is to defeat zovaal.
Anyone think there is a particular reason for this? I'm curious to see if they changed the voiceover from the cutscene next week.

[Nokster10]

Ren'dorei is the elven name. Both are correct. That's also the only part of his post that is.

Then why isn't he always speaking elvish instead of just their name?

[Ersula]

I don't see Ersula's comment about "mediocre white male" characters making any sense when Sylvanas is made into the single most stereotypical, banal female villain ever by blaming all of her evil behaviors on a more-malicious male. Back in Warcraft III, we had a very good characterization for Sylvanas, and we got a pretty good, consistent motive for her well into Cataclysm. Unfortunately, "despot wants to avoid dying" isn't enough of a hook for Blizzard's writers because it involves having to write a character with actual depth or nuance based on a very simple premise, so they instead have to obfuscate horrendously superfluous and redundant characterization under "lol she's sad and angry at the universe". It could even be more interesting if there was some emphasis on what people who blame the inherent function of the universe for their own bad decisions are actually like—there are plenty of people in real life who decide that because people act immorally, they therefore have an excuse to act immorally, consequently inspiring more people to do the same etc. without any willingness to acknowledge the irony.

Me: Bolvar is boring

You: Sylvanas' recent writing is bad.

Me: Cool. I agree. Thanks for that non sequitor I guess.

[Shadochi]

Something i noticed during all this secret chapter campaign talk going it that apparently they moved the timeline of zovaals defeat. We get a quest to defeat him after we forge the crown of wills. So the last two chapters take place after his defeat.
When on the ptr the campaign ended with the new arbiter telling us in a cutscene that the last step to restore the shadowlands is to defeat zovaal.
Anyone think there is a particular reason for this? I'm curious to see if they changed the voiceover from the cutscene next week.

We get the quest the week the raid opens. But completing the quest isn't possible during that week and it isn't required to complete to unlock future chapters. So I believe that he gets defeated after chapter 6 definitely (since that is where we get the protection from Domination) or after the 7th chapter (idk what happens there exactly besides the new Arbiter)