Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

Funny how after all the memes throughout the years, turns out Jaina is the only one that isn't a Dreadlord

That's just what the dreadlords want you to think.

[ChairmanKaga]

They did nothing in this expansion with anyone that wasn't Anduin and Sylvanas, and that's pretty endemic of the issue.

That lends credence, for me, to that 4chan post about cuts to everything. I can't remember an expac before with so many unused major characters just standing around.

[Shadochi]

That lends credence, for me, to that 4chan post about cuts to everything. I can't remember an expac before with so many unused major characters just standing around.

The OP goes against what he said so many times in that thread that it just screams leak. Also the fact that he has info about story and sales while he wasn't in any of those departments.

[Nokster10]

In the Dragon Isles, major spotlight for the Ren'dorei can be expected.

It is stated in their Intro cutscene that the Ren'dorei have resisted the whispers that bent even the wills of Dragons. The Ren'dorei know something that the Dragons do not and thus they will play a major role in the Dragon Isles expansion, which by the way is the next expansion.

Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.

[huth]

Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.

Ren'dorei is the elven name. Both are correct. That's also the only part of his post that is.

[Syegfryed]

A problem of adding more elves in the game or giving then spotlight are things like this, the fanabase just can't get a break, they keep wanting more and more until the story/game is ruined.

[Foolicious]

Something i noticed during all this secret chapter campaign talk going it that apparently they moved the timeline of zovaals defeat. We get a quest to defeat him after we forge the crown of wills. So the last two chapters take place after his defeat.
When on the ptr the campaign ended with the new arbiter telling us in a cutscene that the last step to restore the shadowlands is to defeat zovaal.
Anyone think there is a particular reason for this? I'm curious to see if they changed the voiceover from the cutscene next week.

[Nokster10]

Ren'dorei is the elven name. Both are correct. That's also the only part of his post that is.

Then why isn't he always speaking elvish instead of just their name?

[Ersula]

I don't see Ersula's comment about "mediocre white male" characters making any sense when Sylvanas is made into the single most stereotypical, banal female villain ever by blaming all of her evil behaviors on a more-malicious male. Back in Warcraft III, we had a very good characterization for Sylvanas, and we got a pretty good, consistent motive for her well into Cataclysm. Unfortunately, "despot wants to avoid dying" isn't enough of a hook for Blizzard's writers because it involves having to write a character with actual depth or nuance based on a very simple premise, so they instead have to obfuscate horrendously superfluous and redundant characterization under "lol she's sad and angry at the universe". It could even be more interesting if there was some emphasis on what people who blame the inherent function of the universe for their own bad decisions are actually like—there are plenty of people in real life who decide that because people act immorally, they therefore have an excuse to act immorally, consequently inspiring more people to do the same etc. without any willingness to acknowledge the irony.

Me: Bolvar is boring

You: Sylvanas' recent writing is bad.

Me: Cool. I agree. Thanks for that non sequitor I guess.

[Shadochi]

Something i noticed during all this secret chapter campaign talk going it that apparently they moved the timeline of zovaals defeat. We get a quest to defeat him after we forge the crown of wills. So the last two chapters take place after his defeat.
When on the ptr the campaign ended with the new arbiter telling us in a cutscene that the last step to restore the shadowlands is to defeat zovaal.
Anyone think there is a particular reason for this? I'm curious to see if they changed the voiceover from the cutscene next week.

We get the quest the week the raid opens. But completing the quest isn't possible during that week and it isn't required to complete to unlock future chapters. So I believe that he gets defeated after chapter 6 definitely (since that is where we get the protection from Domination) or after the 7th chapter (idk what happens there exactly besides the new Arbiter)

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Me: Bolvar is boring

You: Sylvanas' recent writing is bad.

Me: Cool. I agree. Thanks for that non sequitor I guess.

The comment you were referencing was in turn referencing Sylvanas' role in regards to the story swallowing up that of Arthas and Bolvar. I was pointing out the irony of being frustrated with people wanting "every white male character" to be in the spotlight when Sylvanas is the most mind-numbingly boring example of a generic female villain in history. Given your need to drag that particular element, I felt the need to point out that it's not much of an improvement to focus on an extraordinarily boring, stereotypical "a man made me this way > : ( ( ( (" villain.

[Ersula]

The comment you were referencing was in turn referencing Sylvanas' role in regards to the story swallowing up that of Arthas and Bolvar. I was pointing out the irony of being frustrated with people wanting "every white male character" to be in the spotlight when Sylvanas is the most mind-numbingly boring example of a generic female villain in history. Given your need to drag that particular element, I felt the need to point out that it's not much of an improvement to focus on an extraordinarily boring, stereotypical "a man made me this way > : ( ( ( (" villain.

She still deserved the final word, because by a huge margin, Arthas fucked with her & her people far more than Uther & Jaina. Because when we have an actual example of a one-dimensional villain (Arthas) people just latch on & can't let go.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Funny how after all the memes throughout the years, turns out Jaina is the only one that isn't a Dreadlord

What if there are some Constellar somewhere who think they snatched Jaina in the same way the Light snatched Turalyon, but this whole time they’ve had a Jaina Dreadlord?

[Polybius]

She still deserved the final word, because by a huge margin, Arthas fucked with her & her people far more than Uther & Jaina. Because when we have an actual example of a one-dimensional villain (Arthas) people just latch on & can't let go.

Stratholme wasn't one-dimensional. What he did was still wrong but containing the problem, separating the healthy from unhealthy, isn't simple. Esp. a fast acting plague.

[Ersula]

Stratholme wasn't one-dimensional. What he did was still wrong but containing the problem, separating the healthy from unhealthy, isn't simple. Esp. a fast acting plague.

Forget Stratholme. You know everything you need to in Arthas' first mission: He's immediately established as "I get to kill orcs? When I kill them everyone will know how great I am" And his character does not get any deeper after that point.

[shoc]

Forget Stratholme. You know everything you need to in Arthas' first mission: He's immediately established as "I get to kill orcs? When I kill them everyone will know how great I am" And his character does not get any deeper after that point.

The culling is literally his turning point from lawful good to evil. The point of no return after which he is no longer a Paladin, ripped straight from the D&D handbook.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Forget Stratholme. You know everything you need to in Arthas' first mission: He's immediately established as "I get to kill orcs? When I kill them everyone will know how great I am" And his character does not get any deeper after that point.

"Here's an example of why you're wrong."

"No. Forget that example. You know everything you need to from this example, which I will infer to mean whatever I want it to. You should infer that to mean the same thing."

[Vakir]

The culling is literally his turning point from lawful good to evil. The point of no return after which he is no longer a Paladin, ripped straight from the D&D handbook.

"Here's an example of why you're wrong."

"No. Forget that example. You know everything you need to from this example, which I will infer to mean whatever I want it to. You should infer that to mean the same thing."

You're both dealing with someone who jumped straight to identify politics. It's a lost cause. To

Also Bolvar is boring BECAUSE they rode Sylvanas' ass so Le Conceptuel's pivot to her made sense.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Stratholme wasn't one-dimensional. What he did was still wrong but containing the problem, separating the healthy from unhealthy, isn't simple. Esp. a fast acting plague.

I'd say that people are probably wrong to look at it as something which couldn't be avoided, which only makes it even better in my opinion—it shows how good intentions will condemn you if you follow them the wrong way, and how your first approach may not always be the best. Given Stratholme's layout, isolation was possible, but Arthas could only do what he did in a moment of desperation.

It was a mix, in my mind, of both sincerity and hubris, and that makes it a very good moment—combination is one of the hallmarks of good writing, I think, and that combination of those two motives made it all the better to see Arthas as the person he was and precisely why he was corruptible.

I think that, unfortunately, people's perspective on the character is somewhat warped by his WotLK portrayal, which is one-dimensional everywhere but his death scene. His behavior is pretty consistently generic evil overlord gloating until that point. I think Arthas would be more fondly acknowledged by younger players (I say this, likely younger than most young players but as someone who ardently played Warcraft III in his childhood) if he were more akin to his original portrayal.

- - - Updated - - -

Also Bolvar is boring BECAUSE they rode Sylvanas' ass so Le Conceptuel's pivot to her made sense.

This is where I lose all respect from anyone, but I honestly think it would've been very cool and interesting if Bolvar remained the Lich King through the whole expansion and our foray into the Shadowlands was at his behest. It would be interesting to add the element of an allied Villain Protagonist we aren't wholly sure we can trust, and Legion!Bolvar is the best portrayal in WoW of any Lich King, I think.

[Ersula]

"Here's an example of why you're wrong."

"No. Forget that example. You know everything you need to from this example, which I will infer to mean whatever I want it to. You should infer that to mean the same thing."

You're arguing Stratholme is an example of his good qualities?