Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

You realise that sentence is essentially "I, and i alone, know best!"

It shows the opposite of what you claim.

Pride is, in fact, a common character flaw without active intended malice. This works if you want to interpret it in the most negative manner possible. So are you on board with the idea that Arthas is an overrated and one dimensional character, or are you just being obtuse?

We've also frankly come a long way from you whinging at me in the past for inserting a response to you in a conversation I wasn't involved in when you're doing the same thing now.

[huth]

Pride is, in fact, a common character flaw without active intended malice. This works if you want to interpret it in the most negative manner possible. So are you on board with the idea that Arthas is an overrated and one dimensional character, or are you just being obtuse?

We've also frankly come a long way from you whinging at me in the past for inserting a response to you in a conversation I wasn't involved in when you're doing the same thing now.

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else there. Or you misunderstood the context.

Not sure what malice has to do with any of this, either. Arthas was not, initially, actively malicious. He very much was a rash prideful jerk, however.

[Vakir]

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else there. Or you misunderstood the context.

Nah. It was you. Any interjection by me was met with "knock it off : (((((" but now it's fine I guess.

Arthas was not, initially, actively malicious. He very much was a rash prideful jerk, however.

No argument there. Contextually, this sprung from the assertion that Arthas was a one dimensional and overrated character. That's my sole beef. It's a lot of bullshit driven by overcompensating for wanting to prop up another character and having an idpol bent.

[huth]

Nah. It was you. Any interjection by me was met with "knock it off : (((((" but now it's fine I guess.

No, that definitely wasn't me then.

[Syegfryed]

Honestly, I'd say the only Elves I like the portrayal of thus far are the Horde ones. The Void Elves could've been very interesting to me if they went the Abd-Al Hazred approach instead of making them completely surmount the whole "whispers" shtick. I do have to admit the image I have in my head of an emaciated, slightly paler High Elf with dark circles under its eyes and a twitchy, bipolar personality is far more interesting than the Void Elves we got in canon.

I think that the idea of a Lovecraft-inspired race could've been very cool, they just executed it the wrong way.

I would also come to the defense of one of the Elven races in particular—I honestly think that the Blood Elves have a pretty good arc. It's a little haphazard and spotty, but the actual storyline itself is conceptually very good, and the execution isn't the worst.

the biggest problem is not the elves themselves is their public and fanbase, the moment there is elves in the screen they start gathering and demanding shit, so blizz start pandering then more and more, until things are ruined.

Blood elves had a solid and unique interpretation from the frozen throne, but as the time progress they became the generic elven race.

night elves, also, had a solid and unique display, combining things like dark and wood elves, but as time progress, they became another generic elven race. Both changes happened because the playerbase wanted a different approach, something closer to Lotr.

Then the tiring endless beg for high elves, now void elves, and it keeps going, you can't see a section in this forum without an elf thread complaining or demanding something. At this point we just need a break of elves all together, damn sylvanas and the others for a while.

[Chickat]

in 6 years 30 more levels will be added, I'd rather not shit on the work they did by taking 5 levels to get one spell again.

I don't think players will like being squished back down to 50 and having to level to 60 every single expansion. It's a psychological thing, but it doesn't feel good.

[ExiHext]

I don't think players will like being squished back down to 50 and having to level to 60 every single expansion. It's a psychological thing, but it doesn't feel good.

I'd have zero problems with that. I'd have more problems if 12 classes would be merged to 8 or if the whole leveling path would be forced on a single continent (that is heavily alliance focused) with other continents being made obsolete.

[Super Dickmann]

I would also come to the defense of one of the Elven races in particular—I honestly think that the Blood Elves have a pretty good arc. It's a little haphazard and spotty, but the actual storyline itself is conceptually very good, and the execution isn't the worst.

The Blood Elves were good prior to the end of TBC and their arc 'makes sense' on the most basic level. An ancient race who's traditions have worked for them for thousands of years reverting to their standard way of life the second the crisis that defined them is ended makes more sense than them still running a police state and using every kind of unethical magic out there to support their addiction. But without these elements they're just generic fantasy in elves that consume an inordinate amount of screentime.

As for the Arthas discussion, the idea that Shadowlands disrespected Arthas while spending the better part of Uther's entire arc to explain how Uther condemning him to hell, and even being all that upset that Arthas killed him and everyone he loved was wrong, is one of the most retarded strains of argument the expansion has spawned.

[jzhbee]

I don't know, I kinda disagree as she admits herself she became a monster.

She admitted she was somewhat similar to Arthas in the Silverpine questline directly after his death. Although you could assume she was playing up the snark for Garrosh;
"What difference is there between you and the Lich King?"
"Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde."

[Super Dickmann]

She admitted she was somewhat similar to Arthas in the Silverpine questline directly after his death. Although you could assume she was playing up the snark for Garrosh;
"What difference is there between you and the Lich King?"
"Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde."

That was mostly a pithy remark directed against Garrosh. She wasn't being introspective or seeing a real similarity and in any case not one she needed to explain to Garrosh. The current cutscene is a supremely hamhanded way of having Sylvanas actually admit the connection and its moral implications and in the process admit fault.

[Revamp Man]

I don't think players will like being squished back down to 50 and having to level to 60 every single expansion. It's a psychological thing, but it doesn't feel good.

They’ll give us up to 100 then squish again

They finally admitted that it doesn’t feel good to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion

They actually did a decent job on the power gaps this time around so we probably won’t see a number squish next expansion either

[Sondrelk]

They’ll give us up to 100 then squish again

They finally admitted that it doesn’t feel good to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion

They actually did a decent job on the power gaps this time around so we probably won’t see a number squish next expansion either

But what is the point if needing more levels to begin with? All it really does is dilute power gains on each level, and the only real benefit is that players can close their eyes and pretend like their level actually matters at endgame.

The current levelling works as well as one could expect.
1-10 for tutorial. 10-50 for acclimatizing the player. And 50-60 for easing players into current endgame.
Add 10 more levels and all you are really doing is either adding 10 levels to the middle section, which is pointless. Or making SL required levelling after the 10-50 stretch, which is even worse.

[Makorus]

But what is the point if needing more levels to begin with? All it really does is dilute power gains on each level, and the only real benefit is that players can close their eyes and pretend like their level actually matters at endgame.

The current levelling works as well as one could expect.
1-10 for tutorial. 10-50 for acclimatizing the player. And 50-60 for easing players into current endgame.
Add 10 more levels and all you are really doing is either adding 10 levels to the middle section, which is pointless. Or making SL required levelling after the 10-50 stretch, which is even worse.

Because squishing is more hassle than its worth, and I don't trust Blizzard to do a squish every single expansion considering there's always heaps of problems.

I would imagine it's easier if they just give 25% extra experience to the 10-50 quests to compensate them being turned to 10-60, and have the new expansion be 60-70.

At the end of the day, the only reason the level squish happened is because of all the ability culling, you would go 10-20 levels without anything, which obviously felt like shit.

[Sondrelk]

Because squishing is more hassle than its worth, and I don't trust Blizzard to do a squish every single expansion considering there's always heaps of problems.

I would imagine it's easier if they just give 25% extra experience to the 10-50 quests to compensate them being turned to 10-60, and have the new expansion be 60-70.

At the end of the day, the only reason the level squish happened is because of all the ability culling, you would go 10-20 levels without anything, which obviously felt like shit.

You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.

[Varodoc]

Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.

It is very simple actually.

"Ren'dorei" as a term means "Chidlren of the Void" in Thalassian; as such, it can refer to the biological Void elves, but also to the Blood and High elves scholars or to Locus-Walker (whom I consider part of the group). Therefore, by using that term instead of simply "Void elves", I am advocating for all to get more spotlight, not just the biological Void elves.

It's the same reason why people say "Oh I hope Forsaken get more developments" rather than "Oh I hope Undead Humans (the playable ones) get more developments", so that they include Forsaken who are NOT playable (and will likely never be...), like the Undead Elves. Which they will have more development btw, since Blizzard has been favouring the Forsaken, their pet race, since Classic.

So as you can see I never say things randomly, never. I always have key reasons backed by the source material for every word I say, which by the way I am not bragging about since I consider myself overall modest.

[Kokolums]

I would like to share my very own bit of head-canon. To be completely upfront and honest, these ideas are my own and created based on a few questions asked by the community.

What if:
1). Steve Danuser has said, many times, the words “wait and see.” When Blizzard announced the roadmap for the Warcraft universe, someone commented that they would like to be excited; however, they are worried because of how the Sepulcher (Shadowlands ending) concluded. His response was basically something along the lines of “Well, I say this because I can’t provide specificity without giving away potential spoilers. As for the ending of Shadowlands, it will have a conclusion (The Jailer cinematic was not it).”

Analysis:
1). Many think that the “Epilogue: Judgement” chapter of the 9.2 story has been omitted and put into a 9.2.5 patch. However, I don’t believe this. In an interview posted on Wowhead (I linked it yesterday), Danuser says that the chapter was purposely removed from the PTR not to spoil Sylvanas’ story and how the campaign ends in 9.2. He said that he was excited for players to see what happens. Now, the 7/8 chapter releases on LIVE next week, March 22, 2022. IF I am correct, the 8/8 chapter would release on March 29, 2022 (the following week since each week is a new chapter), to conclude the campaign and Sylvanas’ story. What else releases on March 29, 2022? The Sylvanas Book.

Yes, you may be asking “Well, if the 8/8 chapter releases on the 29th, why is it hidden from the achievements/campaign section of our quest journal?”

You would be correct; however, I think this is intentional to build HYPE/suspense for when it finally does go LIVE. Furthermore, depending on what is said in the Sylvanas book, there could be a connection with the 8/8 chapter.

To conclude my crazy head-canon, Danuser’s “wait and see” comments would make a lot more sense. Of course, I could be incredibly wrong; however, I strongly believe in my justification. Time will tell.

thats it! the name of 10.0 is World of Warcraft: Wait and See

[Lady Atia]

You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.

Because it just feels bad to always being leveled down at the end of an expansion? Same goes for the removing of borrowed power btw. It always leaves a sour taste to work for something knowing that you will loose it at the start of 10.0. They really have to move away from that and make WoW a RPG again where you grow exponential in power. An ilvl / dmg numbers squish is fine as these are basically just trimming of zeros but atleast last time the level squish fucked up tuning for legacy content.

[Makorus]

You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.

The problem with a level squish, or any squish for that matter, is that scaling is completely fucked every single time without fail, and I'd rather just have another 10 levels than not be able to do any content post Wrath again until they decide to fix it 6 months into the expansion.

[Dracullus]

The problem with a level squish, or any squish for that matter, is that scaling is completely fucked every single time without fail, and I'd rather just have another 10 levels than not be able to do any content post Wrath again until they decide to fix it 6 months into the expansion.

Was SL "completely fucked with fail" during pre-patch? Honestly, I don't remember problems similar to BfA, but I may be wrong. And during BfA TBC/Wrath was bad long time, not "content post Wrath". Starting Cata/MoP was sigh of relief, starting WoD was entering highway.

As for potential 10.0 squish, this time they don't have to squish everything, only 2 or 3 expansions:

1) Squish SL content to BfA current level (10-50)
2) Squish BfA to Legion level (10-45)
3) Enable legacy buff to Legion raids or squish Legion to WoD level (10-40) - point is, make Legion content one-shot for 60 characters

Rest expansions can be left untouched forever.

[huth]

You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

Because there is no "good" habit. Each of them comes with a set of downsides.