1. #29901
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I don't think players will like being squished back down to 50 and having to level to 60 every single expansion. It's a psychological thing, but it doesn't feel good.
    I'd have zero problems with that. I'd have more problems if 12 classes would be merged to 8 or if the whole leveling path would be forced on a single continent (that is heavily alliance focused) with other continents being made obsolete.

  2. #29902
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I would also come to the defense of one of the Elven races in particular—I honestly think that the Blood Elves have a pretty good arc. It's a little haphazard and spotty, but the actual storyline itself is conceptually very good, and the execution isn't the worst.
    The Blood Elves were good prior to the end of TBC and their arc 'makes sense' on the most basic level. An ancient race who's traditions have worked for them for thousands of years reverting to their standard way of life the second the crisis that defined them is ended makes more sense than them still running a police state and using every kind of unethical magic out there to support their addiction. But without these elements they're just generic fantasy in elves that consume an inordinate amount of screentime.

    As for the Arthas discussion, the idea that Shadowlands disrespected Arthas while spending the better part of Uther's entire arc to explain how Uther condemning him to hell, and even being all that upset that Arthas killed him and everyone he loved was wrong, is one of the most retarded strains of argument the expansion has spawned.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-03-20 at 08:05 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  3. #29903
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    I don't know, I kinda disagree as she admits herself she became a monster.
    She admitted she was somewhat similar to Arthas in the Silverpine questline directly after his death. Although you could assume she was playing up the snark for Garrosh;
    "What difference is there between you and the Lich King?"
    "Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde."

  4. #29904
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    She admitted she was somewhat similar to Arthas in the Silverpine questline directly after his death. Although you could assume she was playing up the snark for Garrosh;
    "What difference is there between you and the Lich King?"
    "Isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde."
    That was mostly a pithy remark directed against Garrosh. She wasn't being introspective or seeing a real similarity and in any case not one she needed to explain to Garrosh. The current cutscene is a supremely hamhanded way of having Sylvanas actually admit the connection and its moral implications and in the process admit fault.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  5. #29905
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I don't think players will like being squished back down to 50 and having to level to 60 every single expansion. It's a psychological thing, but it doesn't feel good.
    They’ll give us up to 100 then squish again

    They finally admitted that it doesn’t feel good to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion

    They actually did a decent job on the power gaps this time around so we probably won’t see a number squish next expansion either

  6. #29906
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    They’ll give us up to 100 then squish again

    They finally admitted that it doesn’t feel good to feel weaker at the beginning of an expansion

    They actually did a decent job on the power gaps this time around so we probably won’t see a number squish next expansion either
    But what is the point if needing more levels to begin with? All it really does is dilute power gains on each level, and the only real benefit is that players can close their eyes and pretend like their level actually matters at endgame.

    The current levelling works as well as one could expect.
    1-10 for tutorial. 10-50 for acclimatizing the player. And 50-60 for easing players into current endgame.
    Add 10 more levels and all you are really doing is either adding 10 levels to the middle section, which is pointless. Or making SL required levelling after the 10-50 stretch, which is even worse.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #29907
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    But what is the point if needing more levels to begin with? All it really does is dilute power gains on each level, and the only real benefit is that players can close their eyes and pretend like their level actually matters at endgame.

    The current levelling works as well as one could expect.
    1-10 for tutorial. 10-50 for acclimatizing the player. And 50-60 for easing players into current endgame.
    Add 10 more levels and all you are really doing is either adding 10 levels to the middle section, which is pointless. Or making SL required levelling after the 10-50 stretch, which is even worse.
    Because squishing is more hassle than its worth, and I don't trust Blizzard to do a squish every single expansion considering there's always heaps of problems.

    I would imagine it's easier if they just give 25% extra experience to the 10-50 quests to compensate them being turned to 10-60, and have the new expansion be 60-70.

    At the end of the day, the only reason the level squish happened is because of all the ability culling, you would go 10-20 levels without anything, which obviously felt like shit.

  8. #29908
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Because squishing is more hassle than its worth, and I don't trust Blizzard to do a squish every single expansion considering there's always heaps of problems.

    I would imagine it's easier if they just give 25% extra experience to the 10-50 quests to compensate them being turned to 10-60, and have the new expansion be 60-70.

    At the end of the day, the only reason the level squish happened is because of all the ability culling, you would go 10-20 levels without anything, which obviously felt like shit.
    You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
    Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

    A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

    And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
    Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #29909
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokster10 View Post
    Why do you keep calling them Ren'dorei? The race is called Void Elf.
    It is very simple actually.

    "Ren'dorei" as a term means "Chidlren of the Void" in Thalassian; as such, it can refer to the biological Void elves, but also to the Blood and High elves scholars or to Locus-Walker (whom I consider part of the group). Therefore, by using that term instead of simply "Void elves", I am advocating for all to get more spotlight, not just the biological Void elves.

    It's the same reason why people say "Oh I hope Forsaken get more developments" rather than "Oh I hope Undead Humans (the playable ones) get more developments", so that they include Forsaken who are NOT playable (and will likely never be...), like the Undead Elves. Which they will have more development btw, since Blizzard has been favouring the Forsaken, their pet race, since Classic.

    So as you can see I never say things randomly, never. I always have key reasons backed by the source material for every word I say, which by the way I am not bragging about since I consider myself overall modest.

  10. #29910
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    I would like to share my very own bit of head-canon. To be completely upfront and honest, these ideas are my own and created based on a few questions asked by the community.

    What if:
    1). Steve Danuser has said, many times, the words “wait and see.” When Blizzard announced the roadmap for the Warcraft universe, someone commented that they would like to be excited; however, they are worried because of how the Sepulcher (Shadowlands ending) concluded. His response was basically something along the lines of “Well, I say this because I can’t provide specificity without giving away potential spoilers. As for the ending of Shadowlands, it will have a conclusion (The Jailer cinematic was not it).”

    Analysis:
    1). Many think that the “Epilogue: Judgement” chapter of the 9.2 story has been omitted and put into a 9.2.5 patch. However, I don’t believe this. In an interview posted on Wowhead (I linked it yesterday), Danuser says that the chapter was purposely removed from the PTR not to spoil Sylvanas’ story and how the campaign ends in 9.2. He said that he was excited for players to see what happens. Now, the 7/8 chapter releases on LIVE next week, March 22, 2022. IF I am correct, the 8/8 chapter would release on March 29, 2022 (the following week since each week is a new chapter), to conclude the campaign and Sylvanas’ story. What else releases on March 29, 2022? The Sylvanas Book.

    Yes, you may be asking “Well, if the 8/8 chapter releases on the 29th, why is it hidden from the achievements/campaign section of our quest journal?”

    You would be correct; however, I think this is intentional to build HYPE/suspense for when it finally does go LIVE. Furthermore, depending on what is said in the Sylvanas book, there could be a connection with the 8/8 chapter.

    To conclude my crazy head-canon, Danuser’s “wait and see” comments would make a lot more sense. Of course, I could be incredibly wrong; however, I strongly believe in my justification. Time will tell.
    thats it! the name of 10.0 is World of Warcraft: Wait and See
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #29911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
    Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

    A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

    And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
    Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.
    Because it just feels bad to always being leveled down at the end of an expansion? Same goes for the removing of borrowed power btw. It always leaves a sour taste to work for something knowing that you will loose it at the start of 10.0. They really have to move away from that and make WoW a RPG again where you grow exponential in power. An ilvl / dmg numbers squish is fine as these are basically just trimming of zeros but atleast last time the level squish fucked up tuning for legacy content.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  12. #29912
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
    Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?

    A level squish for every expansion works perfectly well, is easy to comprehend for returning players, doesn't lead to the same problems it was trying to avoid, and generally just works as a mechanic.

    And as I said. The only real benefit I can see to not squishing is to have more levels, which as we all know is a meaningless metric anyways. You will still gain 10 levels in the new expansion, whether this is 50-60 or 60-70 is a completely arbitrary distinction.
    Squishing at least makes it clear that 50-60 will always be endgame.
    The problem with a level squish, or any squish for that matter, is that scaling is completely fucked every single time without fail, and I'd rather just have another 10 levels than not be able to do any content post Wrath again until they decide to fix it 6 months into the expansion.

  13. #29913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    The problem with a level squish, or any squish for that matter, is that scaling is completely fucked every single time without fail, and I'd rather just have another 10 levels than not be able to do any content post Wrath again until they decide to fix it 6 months into the expansion.
    Was SL "completely fucked with fail" during pre-patch? Honestly, I don't remember problems similar to BfA, but I may be wrong. And during BfA TBC/Wrath was bad long time, not "content post Wrath". Starting Cata/MoP was sigh of relief, starting WoD was entering highway.

    As for potential 10.0 squish, this time they don't have to squish everything, only 2 or 3 expansions:

    1) Squish SL content to BfA current level (10-50)
    2) Squish BfA to Legion level (10-45)
    3) Enable legacy buff to Legion raids or squish Legion to WoD level (10-40) - point is, make Legion content one-shot for 60 characters

    Rest expansions can be left untouched forever.

  14. #29914
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You say right there at the end why a level squish was down to begin with.
    Why is it acceptable to push the dirty laundry into a giant pile instead of just getting into a good habit?
    Because there is no "good" habit. Each of them comes with a set of downsides.

  15. #29915
    Soloing old dungeons and raids shouldn't even be a level squish issue, once an expansion is two expansions old then you should be able to solo it, not sure why they did what they did with Legion soloing.

  16. #29916
    The damage boost should apply to all pre-current expansion raids. That BFA raids still aren't consistently farmable without group is retarded.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  17. #29917
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The damage boost should apply to all pre-current expansion raids. That BFA raids still aren't consistently farmable without group is retarded.
    They didn't even want Legion raids to be soloable in SL until the later patches so it seems like they're making it take longer, not less. Sucks.

  18. #29918
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The damage boost should apply to all pre-current expansion raids. That BFA raids still aren't consistently farmable without group is retarded.
    I think it's ok to need a small group of lets say 5-10 people for raids from the last expansion. But you need like 20 people for N'Zoth Mythic rn, that's far too overtuned. Also Legion raids should be easily solo-able in ilvl 226, which Antorus Mythic isn't.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  19. #29919
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The damage boost should apply to all pre-current expansion raids. That BFA raids still aren't consistently farmable without group is retarded.
    Isn't that at least partially to do with all the damage buffs gained by Azerite, Essences, and Corrupted gear?
    Last I checked the problem with farming the BfA raids is that you don't do that much more damage compared to previous expansions. And while I agree that is annoying it doesn't seem like a problem that occured because of the levelling squish, but rather the lack of noticeably power increases going from BfA to SL.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I think it's ok to need a small group of lets say 5-10 people for raids from the last expansion. But you need like 20 people for N'Zoth Mythic rn, that's far too overtuned. Also Legion raids should be easily solo-able in ilvl 226, which Antorus Mythic isn't.
    I just don't see why this is a problem because of levelling. Rather being a problem with SL being very conservative with large power increases, rather than the usual of making the player a good 10x stronger by the time they reach endgame.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    The problem with a level squish, or any squish for that matter, is that scaling is completely fucked every single time without fail, and I'd rather just have another 10 levels than not be able to do any content post Wrath again until they decide to fix it 6 months into the expansion.
    Surely then the solution should be to fix scaling, rather than skirting around the issue until it becomes a problem again.
    Surely a 100% damage buff for each deprecated expansion in succession is just as elegant as a 25% EXP increase to 10-60 levelling?
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #29920
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    -2 expansion: soloable
    -1 expansion: casual content for groups.

    That should be model, I understand they maybe want to avoid artificial stuff like legacy buff, but it sucks that farming something was easier in 8.3 than 9.1 (haven't tried with new gear).

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