1. #29921
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Isn't that at least partially to do with all the damage buffs gained by Azerite, Essences, and Corrupted gear?
    Last I checked the problem with farming the BfA raids is that you don't do that much more damage compared to previous expansions. And while I agree that is annoying it doesn't seem like a problem that occured because of the levelling squish, but rather the lack of noticeably power increases going from BfA to SL.

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    I just don't see why this is a problem because of levelling. Rather being a problem with SL being very conservative with large power increases, rather than the usual of making the player a good 10x stronger by the time they reach endgame.

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    Surely then the solution should be to fix scaling, rather than skirting around the issue until it becomes a problem again.
    Surely a 100% damage buff for each deprecated expansion in succession is just as elegant as a 25% EXP increase to 10-60 levelling?
    But you are trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist to begin with.

    Damage squish happened because they had to.

    SL Level Squish happened because it didn't feel satisfying to level because you went 10 levels at a time without gaining anything.

    What would a level squish for the next expansion accomplish?

    There's enough spells (and upgrades) between 50-60 where it doesn't feel unrewarding, and just because 70 is the new cap doesnt mean that 50-60 has to be Shadowlands only. It also helps with not making old content like guides etc. insanely confusing.

    It's like wanting a damage squish to happen now because damage numbers could be 1k dps instead of 10k DPS. I mean, yeah, sure, but why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    -2 expansion: soloable
    -1 expansion: casual content for groups.

    That should be model, I understand they maybe want to avoid artificial stuff like legacy buff, but it sucks that farming something was easier in 8.3 than 9.1 (haven't tried with new gear).
    The problem with that is that it's not that simple anymore.

    They actually have to put effort into making stuff soloable, because of certain mechanics. Eonar, for example, still is more annoying than it has to be to solo. Nzoth is gonna be unsoloable for a long long time because of mechanics. And it's just gonna get worse as time goes on and bosses get more complicated. And for some reason, they don't think it's worth their time to make that happen, even though a huge chunk of players is really into transmog farming.

  2. #29922
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    But you are trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist to begin with.

    Damage squish happened because they had to.

    SL Level Squish happened because it didn't feel satisfying to level because you went 10 levels at a time without gaining anything.

    What would a level squish for the next expansion accomplish?

    There's enough spells (and upgrades) between 50-60 where it doesn't feel unrewarding, and just because 70 is the new cap doesnt mean that 50-60 has to be Shadowlands only. It also helps with not making old content like guides etc. insanely confusing.

    It's like wanting a damage squish to happen now because damage numbers could be 1k dps instead of 10k DPS. I mean, yeah, sure, but why?
    10 levels is still 10 that would need to have something attached to them that they likely won't get though. It's certainly not 60 superfluous levels, but it's still something we shouldn't have.

    The extra stuff added is certainly nice, and I am certainly not going to argue for ability bloat, but you are forgetting the part where classes get changed between each expansion no matter how perfect they seem.

    Some abilities will get changed, some will get removed, and some will be added. So the argument that we can jusr add on what we have doesn't really work. You need to imagine that every ability will potentially be changed, and then that you want 10 extra levels on top that need to be filled with stuff, even though the 60 we have already have gaps in them where nothing significant happens.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #29923
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    But you are trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist to begin with.

    Damage squish happened because they had to.

    SL Level Squish happened because it didn't feel satisfying to level because you went 10 levels at a time without gaining anything.

    What would a level squish for the next expansion accomplish?

    There's enough spells (and upgrades) between 50-60 where it doesn't feel unrewarding, and just because 70 is the new cap doesnt mean that 50-60 has to be Shadowlands only. It also helps with not making old content like guides etc. insanely confusing.

    It's like wanting a damage squish to happen now because damage numbers could be 1k dps instead of 10k DPS. I mean, yeah, sure, but why?
    WoW needed a damage Squish after MoP, because the numbers got out of control, and a big reason is that damage in wow is calculated in a 32bit signed integer number (not sure if this is still the case). So it's 2,147,483,647 damage and health that anyone could have; this number is ridiculous, but just see how high the damage end of MoP was; because of this, Garrosh had a phase where he healed himself to full health, because the damage would not allow a different mechanic.

    So they had only 3 different ways to deal with it: either change the number to an 64 bit integer, but this does not change the issue, that calculating ridiculous high numbers does only makes things harder in the long run; also with this high health numbers people can't deal with; Megadamage where blizzard would cut out the last 6 numbers, but this would probably get ridiculous, since people would deal only a few megadamage (dealing 4-5 damage, maybe 20-22 later is simply a bad design) or simply do a stat squish, the best of the 3 options.

    One other reason is that gear scales exponentially, and that always get ridiculous in the long run; it is neccessary because of gearing, but: i think that the curve needs to be toned down.

    I personally doubt that we right now need either a stat squish nor a gearing squish or not making the next expansion people level to 70; the problem is that levels need to be impactful and meaningful and an upgrade, not a way to make people feel unhappy about it: for example when you can one shot an enemy at level 60 in the starting zone of the expansion, and when you go to 68, return there, you might deal with it or even get killed, because you became so weak. Shadowlands was a step in the right direction, but even if we get an expansion where we can decide again, blizzard could still improve on it.

    Instead of making everything level with us, change it back to an older design, either you level like in shadowlands in a fixed way, but personally i'm not so fond of it, OR you could make it like in legion/BfA where you could decide where you want to start first, and then the enemys there get scaled in a progressive way, that means yes, you can outlevel them; your choice of order of the zones decide what level the enemys will have there. After reaching max level and finishing of the zones, you unlock your dailies (or crappy WQs) and everything gets leveled up to 70.

    Seems to be quite off-topic, but this is actually and important issue: leveling needs to feel rewarding (you level up and feel stronger), but this is not the case right now: every time you level up, the enemys does too, and this is unrewarding, and frustrating; so instead of making it unrewarding, you actually get stronger and be able to defeat an enemy easier when you leveled up. And that's something blizzard urgently need to address; because leveling is the most important time in the game, especially after the expansion hit; and blizz really needs to pay more attention to it; not everyone want's to be max level as fast as possible.

    And yes, i think that blizzard will simply change the leveling in the old zones from 1-50 to 1-60. And i really hope that blizzard might consider making raids a way to level up; just put a LFR-Version in the leveling-list and voila, a new way to level up. (and yes, torghast should also be a way to level up, but then we need gear from it)
    Last edited by Velerios; 2022-03-20 at 12:35 PM.

  4. #29924
    The Lightbringer Valysar's Avatar
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    Yeah I don't understand Blizzard in terms of old content.

    In Legion/BfA, I could solo VERY EASILY Hellfire Citadel in mythic, why in SL I can't solo VERY EASILY Antorus Mythic ?
    (by very easily I mean taking no damage, and killing bosses in less than 10sec)

  5. #29925
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    But you are trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist to begin with.

    Damage squish happened because they had to.

    SL Level Squish happened because it didn't feel satisfying to level because you went 10 levels at a time without gaining anything.

    What would a level squish for the next expansion accomplish?

    There's enough spells (and upgrades) between 50-60 where it doesn't feel unrewarding, and just because 70 is the new cap doesnt mean that 50-60 has to be Shadowlands only. It also helps with not making old content like guides etc. insanely confusing.

    It's like wanting a damage squish to happen now because damage numbers could be 1k dps instead of 10k DPS. I mean, yeah, sure, but why?

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    The problem with that is that it's not that simple anymore.

    They actually have to put effort into making stuff soloable, because of certain mechanics. Eonar, for example, still is more annoying than it has to be to solo. Nzoth is gonna be unsoloable for a long long time because of mechanics. And it's just gonna get worse as time goes on and bosses get more complicated. And for some reason, they don't think it's worth their time to make that happen, even though a huge chunk of players is really into transmog farming.
    Yeah, the compromise would be to make encounters like N'Zoth or Eonar fun content for groups of 3-5 players. I think that would be totally ok, as long as most other stuff is still solo-able.

    Edit: Because the current design feels a bit like some devs didn't like that people could easily farm transmog/mounts from the past expansion and devalue theirs so they had to make sure you still need 20 people for Nyalotha Mythic.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-03-20 at 01:26 PM.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  6. #29926
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    WoW needed a damage Squish after MoP, because the numbers got out of control, and a big reason is that damage in wow is calculated in a 32bit signed integer number (not sure if this is still the case). So it's 2,147,483,647 damage and health that anyone could have; this number is ridiculous, but just see how high the damage end of MoP was; because of this, Garrosh had a phase where he healed himself to full health, because the damage would not allow a different mechanic.
    It isn't anymore. They could theoretically go as high as 10^308 HP.

    It's also the only squish i consider actually needed, as the game was literally breaking from it (Ra-Den could, without excessive effort, breach the HP limit and become unkillable).

  7. #29927
    Blizzard picks a bizarre date for the expansion reveal, 4/19.

    What's on the day after? 4/20.

    What do some people do on 4/20? They do pot.

    What's a euphemism for smoking a joint?

    Puff the Magic Dragon.
    Anticipate more references in plain sight.

    (And yes, I know the song is not really about pot)

  8. #29928
    Hive of scum and villainy.

  9. #29929
    Quote Originally Posted by mutsuk View Post
    The only real leak:
    — No real wildly known title yet, internally known as "the new beginnings"

    — No full world revamp, but some zones and many sub-zones are revamped or updated since many events and world quest-like content happening all over the world. Showcase revamped locations are Lordraeron and Tanaris.

    — Dragon Isles are endgame zone, very reminiscent of shrines in Dragonblight

    — No new races, AR or classes at the start. Instead we get slight class revamp, manly focused on specs which are much softer now and many of which are merged and/or expended. Showcase is Mage which have frost and fire combined while arcane expanded to accommodate buff/debuff and other support stuff; and Warrior which have arms and prot combined while fury I'd completely reworked.

    — Talents also reworked and present much more significant choices for your playstyle.

    — More emphasis on diverse and fun gear and also craft professions.

    — demo/alpha targeted briefly after announcement with Tanaris and only couple of classes available.
    Turned out this info is a bit dated and was just recently reposted on one discord, update from the same person:

    — title is The New Dawn

    — Archeology is reworked

    — Tanaris revamp isn't tied to Hearthstone version, tho will have some references.

    — No main big bad but assemble of few antagonists, including both old and new characters, trying to exploit world in crisis (sounds very similar to BfA and Azerit)
    Last edited by mutsuk; 2022-03-20 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #29930
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcho View Post
    Blizzard picks a bizarre date for the expansion reveal, 4/19.

    What's on the day after? 4/20.

    What do some people do on 4/20? They do pot.

    What's a euphemism for smoking a joint?

    Puff the Magic Dragon.
    Anticipate more references in plain sight.

    (And yes, I know the song is not really about pot)
    You might be onto something. The only real datamined leak we have related to 10.0 is an Emerald Dragon mount special fx.

    Green dragons, psychedelic dream dimensions, 4/20, it's all coming together!

  11. #29931
    New confirmed expansion leak from friend, O'ros. O'ros tell me on Exodar, he confirm it is such.

    World of Warcraft: O'ros

    Feature: Level 120 cap. O'ros want to double it up again for good measure, make level same as before. It's no worries.

    Class combination:

    Draenei with knife
    Draenei with pistol

    Zones: Exodar

    System: O'ros coins. Create coin and give to O'ros, provider for Draenei.

    Plot: O'ros have big plans, but not tell anybody on Exodar. I consult O'ros. O'ros say he not such good fan of Shedowlands and bring hero back, so hero come back.

    Hero go to Exodar to find O'ros. Hero will grind for coin around Exodar, maybe ride Elekk for fun. Once coins are ready, give to O'ros. This is the end.
    Last edited by Draenei; 2022-03-21 at 01:12 PM.

  12. #29932
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Approaching 4 weeks until the announcement. I'm definitely interested to see if we get any potential "real leaks" once we get to a week or so before the 19th. Would love to get some concept art, a logo, name, or any information. However, I also wouldn't entirely mind waiting until the 19th (if no "real leaks" come out). Would certainly make the HYPE greater (IMO). What do you all think? Would getting a "hint" or "preview" of 10.0 before the 19th ruin the HYPE for you? Would it make you more or less excited? I guess it depends on what could possibly be teased? For example, something revolving dragons would probably HYPE more people up than say a photo of Sylvanas...KEKW

  13. #29933
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It is very simple actually.

    "Ren'dorei" as a term means "Chidlren of the Void" in Thalassian; as such, it can refer to the biological Void elves, but also to the Blood and High elves scholars or to Locus-Walker (whom I consider part of the group). Therefore, by using that term instead of simply "Void elves", I am advocating for all to get more spotlight, not just the biological Void elves.

    It's the same reason why people say "Oh I hope Forsaken get more developments" rather than "Oh I hope Undead Humans (the playable ones) get more developments", so that they include Forsaken who are NOT playable (and will likely never be...), like the Undead Elves. Which they will have more development btw, since Blizzard has been favouring the Forsaken, their pet race, since Classic.

    So as you can see I never say things randomly, never. I always have key reasons backed by the source material for every word I say, which by the way I am not bragging about since I consider myself overall modest.
    I've never heard people call them forsaken, just undead. Also you speak english, not thalassian, so why use the thalassian word? Do you call LOTR elves Quendi instead of elves?

  14. #29934
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Approaching 4 weeks until the announcement. I'm definitely interested to see if we get any potential "real leaks" once we get to a week or so before the 19th. Would love to get some concept art, a logo, name, or any information. However, I also wouldn't entirely mind waiting until the 19th (if no "real leaks" come out). Would certainly make the HYPE greater (IMO). What do you all think? Would getting a "hint" or "preview" of 10.0 before the 19th ruin the HYPE for you? Would it make you more or less excited? I guess it depends on what could possibly be teased? For example, something revolving dragons would probably HYPE more people up than say a photo of Sylvanas...KEKW
    Photo of Sylvanas riding a dragon
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  15. #29935
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Photo of Sylvanas riding a dragon
    For the win! So true!

    Sylvanas: I have seen the future! This world is doomed and the dragons...will save us all!

  16. #29936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokster10 View Post
    I've never heard people call them forsaken, just undead. Also you speak english, not thalassian, so why use the thalassian word? Do you call LOTR elves Quendi instead of elves?
    Ye people just call them undead or void elves or what ever. Its just Varadoc who kept an element of RP in hes posts for all this time for no reason. There is no need to explain every single time they are kids of the void. VE or void elf would be enough.

  17. #29937
    Quote Originally Posted by mutsuk View Post
    The only real leak:
    — No real wildly known title yet, internally known as "the new beginnings"

    — No full world revamp, but some zones and many sub-zones are revamped or updated since many events and world quest-like content happening all over the world. Showcase revamped locations are Lordraeron and Tanaris.

    — Dragon Isles are endgame zone, very reminiscent of shrines in Dragonblight

    — No new races, AR or classes at the start. Instead we get slight class revamp, manly focused on specs which are much softer now and many of which are merged and/or expended. Showcase is Mage which have frost and fire combined while arcane expanded to accommodate buff/debuff and other support stuff; and Warrior which have arms and prot combined while fury I'd completely reworked.

    — Talents also reworked and present much more significant choices for your playstyle.

    — More emphasis on diverse and fun gear and also craft professions.

    — demo/alpha targeted briefly after announcement with Tanaris and only couple of classes available.
    Butchering fire and frost, 2 specs that actually have a decent enough seperation in theme and gameplay, seems utterly silly. Even I don't want to make jokes about it being so dumb that it could be true, because it would be so moronic, I doubt even Ion could be such a retard to make it happen. At least try next time.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2022-03-20 at 03:45 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  18. #29938
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I'm glad we replaced those awful sexual harassers with the good people from the left. Progress!

    Senior WoW dev. Enjoy!


    So why are you upset that he is expressing his opinion on a platform that allows people to express their opinion? Or should we go deeper into why you don't like what he's saying.


    Bad look from you.


    As usual.

  19. #29939
    Quote Originally Posted by Kill Leftist Pedos View Post
    I'm glad we replaced those awful sexual harassers with the good people from the left. Progress!

    Senior WoW dev. Enjoy!

    You know left is called "left" because they want to go backwards in time, and not forward yeah? Opposite of progress basically.
    I will not reply to posts that are non-constructive or contain flaming and/or trolling.

  20. #29940
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    So why are you upset that he is expressing his opinion on a platform that allows people to express their opinion? Or should we go deeper into why you don't like what he's saying.


    Bad look from you.


    As usual.
    I have to agree. I'm very confused by his point. I see nothing wrong here.

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