1. #30281
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Dissecting a joke is always fatal to it. But if you don't see the humour inherent in a secret war fought between novelty items called "Blingtron," their war raging for decades and rendering the battles that the players actually engage in petty and paltry by comparison... I'm not going to be able to explain humour as a concept.
    Where is it stated that our wars are petty compared to the machine war?
    Combining The War lore and all the Blingtron lore (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blingtron) there seems to be more than enough here for a Mechagon style patch in an expansion where one of the themes are gnomes and goblins.
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  2. #30282
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Pandaren also used to be a joke in the background. Didn't stop blizzard from developing it into a full expansion.
    I would call them "Easter eggs" rather than jokes entirely... but you are entirely correct.

    And while I fully admit that Mists of Pandaria was the mechanical peak of WoW, I was almost completely turned off from the franchise due to the tonal shift. It was the first time that I feel that WoW lost that "WarCraft" feeling that had been present since the original game. It felt to me like a few of our characters had been transported to another franchise entirely. On top of that, there were a myriad of topics that I viewed as more "legitimate," like the Dragon Isles or Undermine, that I would have preferred to see implemented. Most of my guildmates also quit for similar reasons. What could have been one of the most memorable times of my gaming life was squandered due to a tonal shift. All because they decided to expand a small Easter egg into a new race, class, setting, and story.

    My personal bias in the above is obvious. That being said, I still believe that MoP is the exception to the rule. Even Shadowlands, as disconnected a setting as some feel that it is, had precedent and explores existing concepts. They haven't thrown us a curveball like that since.

  3. #30283
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Pandaren also used to be a joke in the background. Didn't stop blizzard from developing it into a full expansion.
    Maybe for RoC. A brief blip in the timescale of the series. But that was quickly thrown out the window the moment they were added as a hero in TFT and Chen was part of the main campaign. Anyone who continued to consider them a joke at that point was just willfully ignorant.

    As for Blingtron, I don't see that ever becoming a main plot point for any expansion. Its mostly just a fun side story for engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I can't think of something I'd want less than Goblins and Gnomes being a focus. Their shtick gets so tiresome real quick.

    Haha, thing goes boom, greedy greedy, slapped together mechanic stuff, radiation and toxic waste go everywhere.

    Maybe I'm just soured from Mechagon and the Mechagnomes, though. I had higher hopes than what we got.

    If its a subplot in the expansion though I guess I'll deal.
    I agree. Its not an aesthetic I could see carrying an expansion unless they greatly diversify the theme.

    As is, an entire expansion full of rickety sheds and sludge water would get old extremely fast.
    Last edited by Khaza-R; 2022-03-22 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #30284
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Mechagon had even less lore in the game (none before BfA, 1 questline in 1 zone on launch) and it was still added in an expansion themed around Old Gods and Faction War
    The Blingtron stuff is entirely predicated on a joke delivered via a bunch of grey trash items that drop from a joke engineering item. Basing anything major around it seems .. not very likely.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  5. #30285
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    To add to this, there is also the whole plotline of the Blingtron war that is unexplored.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_War

    However with the Eternium sea I am unsure if the war is going on on Azeroth, Outland or Draenor. Another fun tidbit is that they didn't add a blingtron in Shadowlands.
    It is going on in Azeroth. In BFA the Blingtrons brought the war to Azeroth.

    I don't think it would be a huge portion of the expansion, I think at most it could be a patch where there's a sudden robotic invasion that culminates in a raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I can't think of something I'd want less than Goblins and Gnomes being a focus. Their shtick gets so tiresome real quick.

    Haha, thing goes boom, greedy greedy, slapped together mechanic stuff, radiation and toxic waste go everywhere.

    Maybe I'm just soured from Mechagon and the Mechagnomes, though. I had higher hopes than what we got.

    If its a subplot in the expansion though I guess I'll deal.
    Yeah, the benefit of mixed themes is that you have the Goblin stuff on one side, and the dragon stuff on the other. Thus, if you're not feeling one side, you can immerse yourself in the other.

    Another connection not touched on by the author of that post was the Caverns of Time being on Tanaris. Gadgetzhan is also on Tanaris, and if they ever decided to expand that outpost into a city, that could be another location that we venture to where there's a Goblin/Dragon connection.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    I think there's potential if they develop it further.

    Undermine could be a hub, and sure it'll have some gadgetz that go boom. But it could also have technological portals beaming in cool creatures from elsewhere. "Holodecks" for some variety down below. People from all over Azeroth might congregate there, like pirates and stuff.

    Beyond that, the Gnome and Goblin influence doesn't have to extend much beyond, say, a sort of drilling machine or subterranean vessel we use to travel, and of course the Tinker class which you don't even need to play.

    I think the majority of such an expansion, and the key to its success, lies in having varied biomes for us to play in. Shadowlands' biggest mistake was that everything was just grey iron/spiky hellfire gloom and doom.

    An underground expansion could reveal a bunch of amazing zones found in caves. And not just like the Cataclysm zone, but literally full of life. Fake skies causes by light reflecting in crystals found on the ceiling. Huge creatures which have been hidden for aeons. Ancient history and ruins which went missing long ago.
    One aspect of an underground concept that is overlooked is underwater/undersea travel. According to Wowpedia, there are sections of Undermine connected by massive underwater tunnels that are made of glass. I don't see why there couldn't be locations around Undermine that are domed undersea areas. In addition, you mention drilling machines and subterranean vessels? What about undersea vessels and submarines? Those are tech as well.

    BTW, people really seemed to get a kick out of the latest Hearthstone trailer that showcased this;


    Could we also pull in Naga and Azshara into such an expansion concept? Possibly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    This, all of this.

    This has been my endgame theory since I found out about the mech whelp for the anniversary event.

    But people find it hard to believe you could combine to tinker lore with dragons. Lack of imagination unfortunately.

    It's simple, wrathion is searching for the isles and just recently Mother joined his entourage. So far he has no leads and other dragons haven't helped.

    So what if the isles are cloaked via titan tech similar to Uldum was before the cataclysm. Wrathion could head down to Undermine to employ the help of the Tinker's Union to combine their tech with Mother's to try and locate the dragon isles and create transportation between the isles and UM.

    They do so and wrathion funds the TU in gratitude allowing them to spread their is influence, boom now you got the tinker class in a Draconic expansion.

    And if people have read my long ass post yesterday about Elune and dragons, you'll have no doubt the dragon isles will be 10.0. How we get there will decide the new class.
    I have also heard the idea that the Dragon Isles are masked by time. Somehow the Bronze (or Infinite) Dragonflight are hiding the isle in a different phase of time. If Bronze drakes aren't helping him (as indicated via lore), and Mages won't assist him (perhaps disguised Dragons within the Kirin Tor are conspiring there as well), he could employ the Tinker's Union in Undermine for that purpose as well. What evidence do we have of this?

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tim...cal_Dragonling

    And its lore;

    Dragons come in all types of temporal classification -- timeless, time-lost, and even infinite.
    Again, all speculation. We'll see what happens in under a month.

  6. #30286
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Pandaren also used to be a joke in the background. Didn't stop blizzard from developing it into a full expansion.

    Metzen, when he was still with the company, made a statement about this a looooooong time ago saying the Pandaren were not viewed as/taken as a "joke" by the team. I believe the quote by Metzen was, "we are not going to build an entire expansion around a joke race."

  7. #30287
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Metzen, when he was still with the company, made a statement about this a looooooong time ago saying the Pandaren were not viewed as/taken as a "joke" by the team. I believe the quote by Metzen was, "we are not going to build an entire expansion around a joke race."
    I think far too often people think their views are shared by the development team. In other words, if you view Pandaren as jokes, then OBVIOUSLY Blizzard also views them as a joke. That was clearly never the case. Frankly, I think some players think that way about Goblins and Gnomes as well.

    "I hate Gnomes and Goblins, so OBVIOUSLY Blizzard hates them too, and would NEVER make an expansion about those races!"

    I think that's really a bad way to look at things.

  8. #30288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    I think there's potential if they develop it further.

    Undermine could be a hub, and sure it'll have some gadgetz that go boom. But it could also have technological portals beaming in cool creatures from elsewhere. "Holodecks" for some variety down below. People from all over Azeroth might congregate there, like pirates and stuff.

    Beyond that, the Gnome and Goblin influence doesn't have to extend much beyond, say, a sort of drilling machine or subterranean vessel we use to travel, and of course the Tinker class which you don't even need to play.

    I think the majority of such an expansion, and the key to its success, lies in having varied biomes for us to play in. Shadowlands' biggest mistake was that everything was just grey iron/spiky hellfire gloom and doom.

    An underground expansion could reveal a bunch of amazing zones found in caves. And not just like the Cataclysm zone, but literally full of life. Fake skies causes by light reflecting in crystals found on the ceiling. Huge creatures which have been hidden for aeons. Ancient history and ruins which went missing long ago.
    You have a point. I've just never been a fan of their aesthetic and shtick (not for lack of trying, either). A hub based on Kezan or in Undermine just is utterly uninteresting to me. But I admit they could find a way to make it so.

    But I'm not that hopeful. Like I said, I actually was optimistic about the Mechagnomes. And then...yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think far too often people think their views are shared by the development team. In other words, if you view Pandaren as jokes, then OBVIOUSLY Blizzard also views them as a joke. That was clearly never the case. Frankly, I think some players think that way about Goblins and Gnomes as well.

    "I hate Gnomes and Goblins, so OBVIOUSLY Blizzard hates them too, and would NEVER make an expansion about those races!"

    I think that's really a bad way to look at things.
    Just in case that's a reference to me, I don't think its impossible, just not something that would excite me (at least from what I can imagine). I can actually very much see an expansion based on them.

    And to give some credit to Gnomes (at least), I actually do adore the mechacycle. One of my favorite mounts. So that's something, heh.

  9. #30289
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Just in case that's a reference to me, I don't think its impossible, just not something that would excite me (at least from what I can imagine). I can actually very much see an expansion based on them.

    And to give some credit to Gnomes (at least), I actually do adore the mechacycle. One of my favorite mounts. So that's something, heh.
    No, it wasn't. I understand that not every theme appeals to every person. You saying that a Goblin theme doesn't appeal to you is a far cry from certain posters saying that they will "quit WoW forever" if a Goblin theme or the Tinker happens in an expansion. And yes, some people have actually stated that.

  10. #30290
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, it wasn't. I understand that not every theme appeals to every person. You saying that a Goblin theme doesn't appeal to you is a far cry from certain posters saying that they will "quit WoW forever" if a Goblin theme or the Tinker happens in an expansion. And yes, some people have actually stated that.
    Gotcha, just making sure, since I was the most recent talk about the theme and not liking it.

    I'm more than willing to give it a shot. Maybe this'll be the time it clicks for me. If it happens to be the theme, anyway.

  11. #30291
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I can't think of something I'd want less than Goblins and Gnomes being a focus. Their shtick gets so tiresome real quick.

    Haha, thing goes boom, greedy greedy, slapped together mechanic stuff, radiation and toxic waste go everywhere.

    Maybe I'm just soured from Mechagon and the Mechagnomes, though. I had higher hopes than what we got.

    If its a subplot in the expansion though I guess I'll deal.
    Yea gnome and goblin focus is really boring as a main thing. I can see myself getting tired of them real fast.

    Mechagon was a borefest for me. The small space and going back and forth the islands within 2 minutes also became boring fast.

    Man.. if either will be what we can expect from the new expansion.. i am not sure if I would care.

  12. #30292
    Last encrypted cinematic of 9.2 is out and was exactly what we expected.

    Pelagos binds with the empty husk we got this week and becomes the new Arbiter.

  13. #30293
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think far too often people think their views are shared by the development team. In other words, if you view Pandaren as jokes, then OBVIOUSLY Blizzard also views them as a joke. That was clearly never the case. Frankly, I think some players think that way about Goblins and Gnomes as well.

    "I hate Gnomes and Goblins, so OBVIOUSLY Blizzard hates them too, and would NEVER make an expansion about those races!"

    I think that's really a bad way to look at things.
    Its pretty easy to say current blizzard would never make an expansion about gnomes and goblins, if it was the old gang and metzen, maybe. But current one is all abut proffit and "amazing and compelling storylines with awesome and serious characters blablabla" thus focusing on humans and elves. See shadowlands? is all about sylvanus and Anduin and a story that try to be too serious with the janitor.

  14. #30294
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    The "old gang" were the ones to establish gnomes and goblins as comic relief races in the first place...



  15. #30295
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think far too often people think their views are shared by the development team. In other words, if you view Pandaren as jokes, then OBVIOUSLY Blizzard also views them as a joke. That was clearly never the case. Frankly, I think some players think that way about Goblins and Gnomes as well.

    "I hate Gnomes and Goblins, so OBVIOUSLY Blizzard hates them too, and would NEVER make an expansion about those races!"

    I think that's really a bad way to look at things.
    You do the same thing though

  16. #30296
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, it wasn't. I understand that not every theme appeals to every person. You saying that a Goblin theme doesn't appeal to you is a far cry from certain posters saying that they will "quit WoW forever" if a Goblin theme or the Tinker happens in an expansion. And yes, some people have actually stated that.
    It doesn't have mass appeal.. Otherwise Tinkers would already be playable without a second thought, instead of Demon Hunters who could barely even scrape up a 2nd spec.

    The Gnome/Goblin thing is hindered by the fact that they're not just low popularity, but are outright disliked. They're considered an unpopular race and constantly considered the lowest picked of all races. That doesn't really change with a new class, as we've seen Pandarens with their own Monk class still gets overshadowed by Human and Blood Elf Monk picks instead.

    If they do Tinkers, then it's gonna be very likely they'll keep it fairly broad and applicable to many races like Engineering already is.

  17. #30297
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    The "old gang" were the ones to establish gnomes and goblins as comic relief races in the first place...
    like pandarens, and they still made an expansion out of it anyway

  18. #30298
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    like pandarens, and they still made an expansion out of it anyway
    Yeah but they also learned their lesson and won't repeat that 'mistake' twice.

    Look at all the Pandaren lore we've gotten since MoP.

  19. #30299
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Without hard, direct data to interpret, discussion on the topic is pointless. Everyone has their own goalposts, their own definitions, their own tolerances and preferences. If the merits or issues of the game aren't self-evident to someone, nothing that a random forum user posts is going to change anyone's mind.
    Sure, but if someone complain about titanforging we can discuss pros and cons. Same with AP or any system/design. But currently it's either "game is broken" or "systems bad" after devs fulfilled like 80% of wishlist from end of BfA (and in 9.1.5 wishlist from launch). And when I see same stupid argument twice or more, always turns out it's 1:1 from some Asmon stream.

  20. #30300
    Immortal Shadochi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Gotcha, just making sure, since I was the most recent talk about the theme and not liking it.

    I'm more than willing to give it a shot. Maybe this'll be the time it clicks for me. If it happens to be the theme, anyway.
    To be honest, there aren't that many huge themes like the Legion left that arent a specific theme that could on its own work to be the only main one of an expansion (note: that is already familiar to us and not something new). There are of course broad themes (Like Draenor or Shadowlands) which aren't focused around just one faction. Then finally there are the smaller themes that would get bunched together for an expansion (Old Gods + Elements + Dragons = Cata)

    IMO both Dragons and G&G fall into the last category (and tbh cosmic forces should be there even if they can be broad, but SL showed us that maybe they shouldn't be the carry) where the expansion theme is made out of multiple smaller themes.
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