Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Pheraz]

Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending

[Vakir]

Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending

Judgment is on the PTR? Meaning the Epilogue? Since when?

[KainneAbsolute]

In WoWhead, you can find spoilers for judgment. I agreed with the ending.

[Vakir]

Ah, cool. Now just have her gone for a long enough time for it to feel like actual penance, which this seems to imply it will be so. Also, maybe do a bit more after the soul retrieval rather than stand with the bland gang. Maybe do some rebuilding efforts. Maybe get around to contributing to some reforms--ahahah who am I kidding she's gonna be doing kickflips and badass trick shots the moment we get another second with her.

[Vakir]

Pretty sure that was just the Maw and has been retconned to be so. This is just a "break the glass" status which sounds about right if we're counting her with the likes of Illidan. Their crimes are different with weird fluctuations in intensity but they're both aimed down the middle as "asshole anti-heroes" at this point.

That said, you'd have to be a total idiot, a truly incompetent writer, to just try and drudge her out almost immediately after talking it up as a significant penance---oh no we're doomed.

[Ersula]

You know that black oblivion they've referenced over the years? The nothingness of the abyss which both she and Arthas caught a glimpse of upon death, in pre-Shadowlands lore? The eternal state of suffering and nothingness she spent a decade trying to elude and find a fix for before Shadowlands retconned her lore?

That's what she deserves.

But what would be the point of that? Creating exponential suffering? The entire theme of the story goes against that. Restorative Justice over Punitive Justice. Wanting to create suffering in response to suffering is exactly what led Sylvanas down this road in the first place.

The souls she sent to the maw do not care at all that she suffers. That doesn't help them. What does help them is getting them out of the maw. (And hope no one brings up that being in the shadowlands is functionally the same as being alive now.)

The funny bit is Tyrande going "Sorry I killed your Boyfriend, you can have my bird"

[Rhlor]

As someone with a few UD alts, I think the biggest drawback to playing them is their models, honestly. Even with bones hidden, their stance just makes most armor and animations look janky and unnatural. I know that's part of the zombie vibe that many people like, but if I could get the Forsaken vibe/culture/history with another option for a model (be it undead elves or humans a la Nathanos) I'd be elated. No reason not to, honestly, since Forsaken were brought into undeath with various levels of decay; no reason they all need to be hunched, crooked-looking zombies. Besides, I'm always on the side of giving *more* customization options rather than fewer.

I also think there's precedent for non-hunter classes among undead elves; we do see some dark rangers walking around dual-wielding daggers and shortswords. This could be representative of rogue or warrior-esque fighting styles among them.

derek look cool

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending

It does feel like what everyone expected, anyway, so I'm not sure what's particularly new about it. It is nice that she at least makes herself culpable instead of resolving to go there on her own, and it does make her redemption seem a little bit more genuine, but the whole arc is still as messy as ever and I'm not sure how compatible this whole things is with her character, even with a new perspective on things.

I think the issue with Sylvanas is that her BfA incarnation was more evil than she usually was and this was met by a complete 180 instead of a return to form, making her too sympathetic (and not in a very good way, since most people will only cringe at her self-pitying soliloquies).

[Prenderghast]

derek look cool

Derek do look cool. I think that Derek and Nathanos (perhaps Calia to a lesser extent, since she's Naaru-raised) are all good examples of a variety of alternate-model options for Forsaken. They were all raised into undeath in different circumstances and look significantly different, but have one important feature in common - straight backs, haha. Honestly, whether it's undead elves (dark rangers), undead skin tones on a regular human model (Nathanos/Derek), or a hunch toggle on existing Forsaken models - it would just make my day to play a Forsaken that isn't a shambling mess.

Who knows, maybe the encrypted Tirisfal map is a heritage-related scenario for Undead that unlocks an alternate model or customization option, much like the Night Warrior quest chain for night elves. A guy can dream.

[Vakir]

Yeah - Derek, Nate, and Calia-if-she-wasn't-Light-bullshit are good Forsaken option ideas. Undead Elves sound fine but they should be on Nelves/Belves as options, not Forsaken. Kinda kills the flavor of them. Can even give them a DK voice modification and select undead starting pets if you prefer.

[ChairmanKaga]

I'm aware of that, but a sleigh mount with reindeer is not a reindeer mount. "The boss drops the updated Reindeer mount." Wouldn't he say sleigh instead? .

rein·​deer | \ ˈrān-ˌdir \ plural reindeer.

[Throren]

Considering there are probably untold billions of souls in the Maw, since its been around for untold eons and houses souls from every planet in the universe, Sylvanas punishment may as well be an eternity life sentence. She'll be there for centuries at least, and even then, they didn't say she was allowed to leave once she found them all. She may be forced to stay, alone, for all time.

I personally would wish they just perma-offed her but this is as close to that as Blizz will probably ever give us so I'll take it

[Villager720]

Considering there are probably untold billions of souls in the Maw, since its been around for untold eons and houses souls from every planet in the universe, Sylvanas punishment may as well be an eternity life sentence. She'll be there for centuries at least, and even then, they didn't say she was allowed to leave once she found them all. She may be forced to stay, alone, for all time.

I personally would wish they just perma-offed her but this is as close to that as Blizz will probably ever give us so I'll take it

I agree with tasking Sylvanas to do this as judgement, but sending only her to fix this seems shitty to the souls trapped in the Maw.
I know this will lengthen how long she's there as she has to get them all, but if I was one of them, I'd want all the Covenants joining in to save our souls.

Speaking of - what were the Covenants doing during the Maw assaults?

[KainneAbsolute]

Remember that the disruption of arbiter shifted the souls of the multiverse. Considering it is a big number, Sylvana's work can take forever.

[Chickat]

Its the best ending we could hope for tbh. She will come back for the final arc of Warcraft im betting. She will [articipate in the battle of all forces against` the mysterious thing Zovaal was afraid of.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember that the disruption of arbiter shifted the souls of the multiverse. Considering it is a big number, Sylvana's work can take forever.

Hopefully, for her sake, the cap before turn-in is higher than 20. We will see her again, but hopefully not for at least 5 or 6 years.

[Luck4]

Our favorite mage makes a return in 9.2.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNuYRyRzgw

Jaina new guardian in 10.0?

This kinda throws off the possibility of a time skip, since Khadgar just arrived in Shadowlands after all the events, and based on their conversation doesn't seem like much time has passed in Azeroth.

Kinda sad, world revamps/soft reboot seems more and more unlikely.

[Ferlion12]

Its the best ending we could hope for tbh. She will come back for the final arc of Warcraft im betting. She will [articipate in the battle of all forces against` the mysterious thing Zovaal was afraid of.

- - - Updated - - -



Hopefully, for her sake, the cap before turn-in is higher than 20. We will see her again, but hopefully not for at least 5 or 6 years.

There is an overlooked thing here.

The Maw was only sealed because of the Jailer. Who is now dead. So things can return from the Maw. So the Kyrian not doing this doesn't make sense and Sylvanas is just helping. Slowly.

[ChairmanKaga]

There is an overlooked thing here.

The Maw was only sealed because of the Jailer. Who is now dead. So things can return from the Maw. So the Kyrian not doing this doesn't make sense and Sylvanas is just helping. Slowly.

Why is there even a Maw? Going forward without a jailed previous Arbiter what function does it serve?

[Hitei]

You know that black oblivion they've referenced over the years? The nothingness of the abyss which both she and Arthas caught a glimpse of upon death, in pre-Shadowlands lore? The eternal state of suffering and nothingness she spent a decade trying to elude and find a fix for before Shadowlands retconned her lore?

That's what she deserves.

That ...that's the Maw.

[Ferlion12]

Why is there even a Maw? Going forward without a jailed previous Arbiter what function does it serve?

Doesn't really serve one, does it.

In fact, every bit of this judgement falls apart if you look at it.

Up to and including Revendreth specifically existing for people like Sylvanas.

The punishment, and ultimate test to see the Arbiter could make the Shadowlands function...should have just been to ask Thrall to remember his promise.