1. #30761
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    yes it was a good expansion, and no mistakes were made.
    It was a good expansion, but plenty of mistakes were made. MoP was the first big sign of massive sub drop off, and its content didn't help retaining it. It was also a huge mis-step in not being able to capture the attention of the Chinese audience as much as they anticipated. They were pitting themselves up against other established Chinese MMO's that were starting to flourish, like Silk Road Online, Age of Wushu, Heroes of the Three Kingdoms, etc. Incomparison, MoP was a western cartoon parody of Chinese culture, and the Kung Fu Panda criticisms were fairly apt. Just look at how the Monkey King is an over-the-top exaggerated cartoon Monkey.

    I loved what they did with MoP, and as an ethnic Chinese person, I had no problem with the themes they used for Pandaren and Pandaria. But it's pretty damn clear that it's not for everyone, and there was massive criticism surrounding its theme and playable Pandaren that continues on today. Not sure if you remembered, but people were clamoring on WoD 'saving WoW' by returning to its roots. You can probably find videos today on how much people hated MoP when it was still out, even though the content was actually really good. Hell, even the announce trailer for MoP had high amount of dislikes at the time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyeZ8khSEC0

    Just check some of the comments. Plenty of dislikes, and only people realizing it was a good expansion years after it was already finished. Plenty of comments talking about Pandaren being overly criticized.


    And even today, there's never been a race that was so hotly debated as Pandaren when they were introduced.

    It does, as we can see, horde and alliance pandarens are completely neglected since MOP, hell, they did not even got lore in the expansion they were introduced, there is a hell of difference form the groups that joined the factions, that caem from the turtle, compared to the pandaren in the mainland, neutral races just don't work with how the game is designed.
    They did this because of all the controversies surrounding Pandaren in general. It's not even worth it for them to make new Pandaren lore when they could just continue the story without Pandaren mattering at all, as they've done for the past decade. They've been swept under the rug with very little attention brought to them, and remain as one of the black sheep races that rarely ever get a spotlight shone on them.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-03-23 at 02:18 AM.

  2. #30762
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    It's obvious that mount will have reindeer not reins floating in empty space.

    I'm aware of that, but a sleigh mount with reindeer is not a reindeer mount. "The boss drops the updated Reindeer mount." Wouldn't he say sleigh instead? That's a big thing to exclude.

    I don't see why some are going "EoA may be legit" when it got one and a half things right, both of which are easier things to guess at anyway. Khadgar will return? Oh that's out of left field for sure! And an updated holiday gets a mount? That's Nostradamus right there!

    Maybe if we see weird activity around Dire Maul, NPCs matching new class combos, larger updates to the cities. But this? This is nothing indicative.

  3. #30763
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I'm aware of that, but a sleigh mount with reindeer is not a reindeer mount. "The boss drops the updated Reindeer mount." Wouldn't he say sleigh instead? That's a big thing to exclude.

    I don't see why some are going "EoA may be legit" when it got one and a half things right, both of which are easier things to guess at anyway. Khadgar will return? Oh that's out of left field for sure! And an updated holiday gets a mount? That's Nostradamus right there!

    Maybe if we see weird activity around Dire Maul, NPCs matching new class combos, larger updates to the cities. But this? This is nothing indicative.
    Still a high probability, hence may be. Most specific details have been confirmed. If the leak is real, most things are subject to change: deleted, shifted, or moved forward.

  4. #30764
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  5. #30765
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending
    Judgment is on the PTR? Meaning the Epilogue? Since when?

  6. #30766
    In WoWhead, you can find spoilers for judgment. I agreed with the ending.

  7. #30767
    Ah, cool. Now just have her gone for a long enough time for it to feel like actual penance, which this seems to imply it will be so. Also, maybe do a bit more after the soul retrieval rather than stand with the bland gang. Maybe do some rebuilding efforts. Maybe get around to contributing to some reforms--ahahah who am I kidding she's gonna be doing kickflips and badass trick shots the moment we get another second with her.

  8. #30768
    Pretty sure that was just the Maw and has been retconned to be so. This is just a "break the glass" status which sounds about right if we're counting her with the likes of Illidan. Their crimes are different with weird fluctuations in intensity but they're both aimed down the middle as "asshole anti-heroes" at this point.

    That said, you'd have to be a total idiot, a truly incompetent writer, to just try and drudge her out almost immediately after talking it up as a significant penance---oh no we're doomed.

  9. #30769
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    You know that black oblivion they've referenced over the years? The nothingness of the abyss which both she and Arthas caught a glimpse of upon death, in pre-Shadowlands lore? The eternal state of suffering and nothingness she spent a decade trying to elude and find a fix for before Shadowlands retconned her lore?

    That's what she deserves.
    But what would be the point of that? Creating exponential suffering? The entire theme of the story goes against that. Restorative Justice over Punitive Justice. Wanting to create suffering in response to suffering is exactly what led Sylvanas down this road in the first place.

    The souls she sent to the maw do not care at all that she suffers. That doesn't help them. What does help them is getting them out of the maw. (And hope no one brings up that being in the shadowlands is functionally the same as being alive now.)

    The funny bit is Tyrande going "Sorry I killed your Boyfriend, you can have my bird"
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-03-23 at 03:48 AM.

  10. #30770
    Quote Originally Posted by Prenderghast View Post
    As someone with a few UD alts, I think the biggest drawback to playing them is their models, honestly. Even with bones hidden, their stance just makes most armor and animations look janky and unnatural. I know that's part of the zombie vibe that many people like, but if I could get the Forsaken vibe/culture/history with another option for a model (be it undead elves or humans a la Nathanos) I'd be elated. No reason not to, honestly, since Forsaken were brought into undeath with various levels of decay; no reason they all need to be hunched, crooked-looking zombies. Besides, I'm always on the side of giving *more* customization options rather than fewer.

    I also think there's precedent for non-hunter classes among undead elves; we do see some dark rangers walking around dual-wielding daggers and shortswords. This could be representative of rogue or warrior-esque fighting styles among them.
    derek look cool


  11. #30771
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    Judgment is kind of satisfying. I have some strange feeling that it was planned differently but this is probably bs in my head. Good ending
    It does feel like what everyone expected, anyway, so I'm not sure what's particularly new about it. It is nice that she at least makes herself culpable instead of resolving to go there on her own, and it does make her redemption seem a little bit more genuine, but the whole arc is still as messy as ever and I'm not sure how compatible this whole things is with her character, even with a new perspective on things.

    I think the issue with Sylvanas is that her BfA incarnation was more evil than she usually was and this was met by a complete 180 instead of a return to form, making her too sympathetic (and not in a very good way, since most people will only cringe at her self-pitying soliloquies).

  12. #30772
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    derek look cool
    Derek do look cool. I think that Derek and Nathanos (perhaps Calia to a lesser extent, since she's Naaru-raised) are all good examples of a variety of alternate-model options for Forsaken. They were all raised into undeath in different circumstances and look significantly different, but have one important feature in common - straight backs, haha. Honestly, whether it's undead elves (dark rangers), undead skin tones on a regular human model (Nathanos/Derek), or a hunch toggle on existing Forsaken models - it would just make my day to play a Forsaken that isn't a shambling mess.

    Who knows, maybe the encrypted Tirisfal map is a heritage-related scenario for Undead that unlocks an alternate model or customization option, much like the Night Warrior quest chain for night elves. A guy can dream.

  13. #30773
    Yeah - Derek, Nate, and Calia-if-she-wasn't-Light-bullshit are good Forsaken option ideas. Undead Elves sound fine but they should be on Nelves/Belves as options, not Forsaken. Kinda kills the flavor of them. Can even give them a DK voice modification and select undead starting pets if you prefer.

  14. #30774
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    I'm aware of that, but a sleigh mount with reindeer is not a reindeer mount. "The boss drops the updated Reindeer mount." Wouldn't he say sleigh instead? .
    rein·​deer | \ ˈrān-ˌdir \ plural reindeer.

  15. #30775
    Considering there are probably untold billions of souls in the Maw, since its been around for untold eons and houses souls from every planet in the universe, Sylvanas punishment may as well be an eternity life sentence. She'll be there for centuries at least, and even then, they didn't say she was allowed to leave once she found them all. She may be forced to stay, alone, for all time.

    I personally would wish they just perma-offed her but this is as close to that as Blizz will probably ever give us so I'll take it

  16. #30776
    Quote Originally Posted by Throren View Post
    Considering there are probably untold billions of souls in the Maw, since its been around for untold eons and houses souls from every planet in the universe, Sylvanas punishment may as well be an eternity life sentence. She'll be there for centuries at least, and even then, they didn't say she was allowed to leave once she found them all. She may be forced to stay, alone, for all time.

    I personally would wish they just perma-offed her but this is as close to that as Blizz will probably ever give us so I'll take it
    I agree with tasking Sylvanas to do this as judgement, but sending only her to fix this seems shitty to the souls trapped in the Maw.
    I know this will lengthen how long she's there as she has to get them all, but if I was one of them, I'd want all the Covenants joining in to save our souls.

    Speaking of - what were the Covenants doing during the Maw assaults?

  17. #30777
    Remember that the disruption of arbiter shifted the souls of the multiverse. Considering it is a big number, Sylvana's work can take forever.

  18. #30778
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    Its the best ending we could hope for tbh. She will come back for the final arc of Warcraft im betting. She will [articipate in the battle of all forces against` the mysterious thing Zovaal was afraid of.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KainneAbsolute View Post
    Remember that the disruption of arbiter shifted the souls of the multiverse. Considering it is a big number, Sylvana's work can take forever.
    Hopefully, for her sake, the cap before turn-in is higher than 20. We will see her again, but hopefully not for at least 5 or 6 years.

  19. #30779
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Our favorite mage makes a return in 9.2.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNuYRyRzgw

    Jaina new guardian in 10.0?
    This kinda throws off the possibility of a time skip, since Khadgar just arrived in Shadowlands after all the events, and based on their conversation doesn't seem like much time has passed in Azeroth.

    Kinda sad, world revamps/soft reboot seems more and more unlikely.

  20. #30780
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Its the best ending we could hope for tbh. She will come back for the final arc of Warcraft im betting. She will [articipate in the battle of all forces against` the mysterious thing Zovaal was afraid of.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hopefully, for her sake, the cap before turn-in is higher than 20. We will see her again, but hopefully not for at least 5 or 6 years.
    There is an overlooked thing here.

    The Maw was only sealed because of the Jailer. Who is now dead. So things can return from the Maw. So the Kyrian not doing this doesn't make sense and Sylvanas is just helping. Slowly.

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