1. #30781
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferlion12 View Post
    There is an overlooked thing here.

    The Maw was only sealed because of the Jailer. Who is now dead. So things can return from the Maw. So the Kyrian not doing this doesn't make sense and Sylvanas is just helping. Slowly.
    Why is there even a Maw? Going forward without a jailed previous Arbiter what function does it serve?

  2. #30782
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    You know that black oblivion they've referenced over the years? The nothingness of the abyss which both she and Arthas caught a glimpse of upon death, in pre-Shadowlands lore? The eternal state of suffering and nothingness she spent a decade trying to elude and find a fix for before Shadowlands retconned her lore?

    That's what she deserves.
    That ...that's the Maw.

  3. #30783
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Why is there even a Maw? Going forward without a jailed previous Arbiter what function does it serve?
    Doesn't really serve one, does it.

    In fact, every bit of this judgement falls apart if you look at it.

    Up to and including Revendreth specifically existing for people like Sylvanas.

    The punishment, and ultimate test to see the Arbiter could make the Shadowlands function...should have just been to ask Thrall to remember his promise.

  4. #30784
    So, Sylvanas banished to the Maw, new Tirisfal Glades mini-map - is there something else I missed?
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  5. #30785
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    So, Sylvanas banished to the Maw, new Tirisfal Glades mini-map - is there something else I missed?
    If 10.0 is about Sylvanas again, I'm out, no joke

  6. #30786
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    Why is there even a Maw? Going forward without a jailed previous Arbiter what function does it serve?
    Pelagos doesn't like that the Maw exists, but there's no actual consensus to destroy the Maw and he doesn't have the ability to do it either. We know from ZM that the Arbiter didn't actually create afterlives because that was inherently part of his powerset but basically sent a request to have one built in Zereth Mortis to then be activated in the rest of SL. So it's the same as it was before, containing and permanently punishing the worst of the worst. The only difference is instead of the Bald Man doing it it's his torture robots running on auto-pilot.

    Past that, ending is as predicted and basically the best that can be done with this shitshow. The only in-story detail is whether she's trapped until she frees everyone she's responsible for throwing in there or everyone who's there at all and also if she has to also free the guys that say, the Accuser drops in since she backs up sending people to turbo hell. The only out of story detail that matters and matters exponentially is if Blizzard actually stick to it and Sylvanas doesn't appear in 10.0.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-03-23 at 05:59 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  7. #30787
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    If 10.0 is about Sylvanas again, I'm out, no joke
    Don't know why you'd come to this conclusion. I rather think the new map indicates that she's not coming back (for now) and instead something else happens to the Forsaken.
    _____

    Oh I forgot Khadgar returning. Seems quite weird, but I'm interested to see what this means for the next expansion.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  8. #30788
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    Well, now yes. But in the past the Maw didn't exist. "Oblivion" was described as just that. Not even an afterlife. Not even he'll. Just eradication of the soul. That's what Sylvanas was so afraid of all these years and why she did all the things she did in Legion etc. Now they've retconned that.
    It wasn't actually described as "oblivion" though, like at all. It was just a place so suffocatingly dark that she couldn't see or speak. It was a place of torment, full of others suffering and things she couldn't see clawing at her, and cold and confusing, and where time seemed to cease existing and be replaced but endless pain. It was an overwhelming of the senses, oblivion is a complete lack of stimulus.

    Which is exactly what the maw is. For gameplay purposes we see through the endless smoke and fog and have a walkable landmass. But for people actually stuck there (see: Jaina and the others at the start) it's just a hellish, confusing place of endless torment at the hands of horrifying shades. Even in the original description, it isn't actually nothing but total blackness, Sylvanas is just isolated and unable to see through the darkness. When the Val'kyr go to her, they push back the darkness around her and she's able to act as normal again.

    I think people forget, because it's a video game so it's easy to dissociate from the zone and just view anywhere as another video game level--but being the Maw isn't just hanging around. It's an inherently unpleasant experience. Even putting aside the active torture, which Sylvanas won't be subject to, it's a hellish place where time seems to stretch on forever, you are stuck in perpetual darkness where the landscape itself is shrouded by dark fog that seems to push in on you, even without the Jailer's forces, you're stalked by twisted shades and wraiths trying to attack you, the spirits that haven't been twisted are constantly crying out in suffering and torment, there's not even a sliver of good or joy or relief.

    There is a reason that prison guards have a suicide rate like 10 times higher than the normal population. Even if you're not a prisoner, spending the entire work day surrounded by suffering and hopelessness wears at you. Spending every second of your forseeable future in a prison, but a horror prison full of death ghosts where the environment itself closes in on you and days seem like decades or centuries isn't particularly getting off lightly just because it isn't tubro torture for the rest of eternity.

  9. #30789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    It's the same armor the Blood Knights were wearing during the Arathi Warfront. But I'm hoping this is some kind of Undead Elf allied race precursor.

    https://twitter.com/Portergauge/stat...53140395696128

    Oh and Liadrin adopted the girl the Bronze Dragonflight prophesized would destroy the timeline, that's.... that... Was every leak right? Are we getting everything everyone asked for?
    Nah it looks like a recolor of the paladin tier set from mythic antorus at least the head and belt i've seen.

  10. #30790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    This kinda throws off the possibility of a time skip, since Khadgar just arrived in Shadowlands after all the events, and based on their conversation doesn't seem like much time has passed in Azeroth.

    Kinda sad, world revamps/soft reboot seems more and more unlikely.
    It has literally nothing to do with world revamp, don't even throw off possibility of time skip.

    World revamp could happen without time skip. And time skip doesn't require time disruption in SL, it could be just natural since we have dealt with every pending threat.

  11. #30791
    Yeah I don't think a timeskip is even needed for a world revamp, so much time has passed since cata anyway so updating the old world just to where it is now lorewise would be enough.

  12. #30792
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Our favorite mage makes a return in 9.2.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNuYRyRzgw

    Jaina new guardian in 10.0?
    It's a bit odd that Jaina calls Khadgar an "old friend". They probably only met for the first time during TBC/WotLK. And during MoP and WoD they weren't on good terms.

  13. #30793
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    As much as I would love full EK/Kalimdor revamp and fresh start, "Lordaeron" expac is brilliant idea. It wouldn't take enourmous resources (still I would expect world bigger than SL, something more similar to BfA) and very likely expand original zones. Southern EK and Kalimdor could have separate expansions.

  14. #30794
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    It's a bit odd that Jaina calls Khadgar an "old friend". They probably only met for the first time during TBC/WotLK. And during MoP and WoD they weren't on good terms.
    Nothing new. It's how Thrall acts totally shocked and horrified about Anduin despite having spoken to him one (1) time in a side book. Or Bob willing to put his people on the line to save Baine with whom he'd never swapped a single line of dialogue. All of the Bland Gang are just appendages of a single overmind and so know each other instinctively.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  15. #30795
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    I don't know but this antorus Pala set is a bit weird choice for the blood elf blood Pala thing. It's a cool set (that's why I'm using it as my night warrior set on my ne warrior ... See Sig) but they could have gone further and create a new set. Maybe it comes with blood elf weapons though
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  16. #30796
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    As much as I would love full EK/Kalimdor revamp and fresh start, "Lordaeron" expac is brilliant idea. It wouldn't take enourmous resources (still I would expect world bigger than SL, something more similar to BfA) and very likely expand original zones. Southern EK and Kalimdor could have separate expansions.
    I mean isn't Lordaeron like... massive? Western + Easter Plaguelands, Tirisfal, Silverpine Forest and if they add the Blood Elf zones (which would make a lot of sense) it's already a pretty impressive area that might be covered, isn't it? They could add Gilneas et voila, massive "continent".
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  17. #30797
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    I’m very happy to see Sylvanas gone from the game for the foreseeable future. Obviously they’ll bring her back at some point, but it’s not going to be for a very long time.

  18. #30798
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Yeah I don't think a timeskip is even needed for a world revamp, so much time has passed since cata anyway so updating the old world just to where it is now lorewise would be enough.
    The problem though is the new books about Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms perpetuating the status quo, Shadowlands "chaotic time" was our only hope to explain a revamp/soft reboot IMO.

  19. #30799
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Our favorite mage makes a return in 9.2.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNuYRyRzgw

    Jaina new guardian in 10.0?
    Why is he talking like he's 100 years old? "Forgive the musings of an old man" etc, and his new voice. He's only 50-ish.

  20. #30800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I mean isn't Lordaeron like... massive? Western + Easter Plaguelands, Tirisfal, Silverpine Forest and if they add the Blood Elf zones (which would make a lot of sense) it's already a pretty impressive area that might be covered, isn't it? They could add Gilneas et voila, massive "continent".
    I’m not seeing how that would be a major expansion feature though. Stuff like that sort of just comes with new expansions.

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