Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

Hugh? I'm talking about a completely revamped Lordaeron. That's not a feature, that's the setting, "continent" or whatever you might call it.

Well that's what I mean. Stuff like that isn't used as a new feature for an expansion, it just sort of happens within the expansion. Something like that being used as THE feature for a new expansion would seem extremely underwhelming. Again, look at Cataclysm; The entire planet was revamped, and people were still underwhelmed.

[Kiivar86]

Still a high probability, hence may be. Most specific details have been confirmed. If the leak is real, most things are subject to change: deleted, shifted, or moved forward.

Most? I look at the list of the leak and the only things I see "confirmed" are:

-Khadgar is back
-Winter Veil mount

That's it.

I feel like I'm missing something. What else in this "leak" is confirmed? I'm just not seeing it. Especially when the only two things I can even see as matching are damned easy guesses.

Yes, and? Again, the "leak" says reindeer mount, not sleigh. That's a pretty big thing to miss. Saying just "reindeer" implies you ride the reindeer, not the sleigh (and seeing as Winter Veil has the Holly item that lets you transform your mount into a reindeer which you ride, that's highly likely what the "leaker" was going with).

[Hitei]

Most? I look at the list of the leak and the only things I see "confirmed" are:

-Khadgar is back

This is already suspect since his dialogue makes it sound like he's about to die or retire.

[Nyel]

Well that's what I mean. Stuff like that isn't used as a new feature for an expansion, it just sort of happens within the expansion. Something like that being used as THE feature for a new expansion would seem extremely underwhelming. Again, look at Cataclysm; The entire planet was revamped, and people were still underwhelmed.

I don’t know why you call the zones where the expansion takes place in a feature. A revamped Lordaeron would be a consistent continent, so the Cataclysm problem wouldn’t apply here.

Cataclysm had other issues because it really lacked features - LFR came in 4.3 and was despised (although transmog was a hit), no new class, just revamped talent trees… it lacked substance.

Lordaeron just is the new place. Feature could still be new races, new class, completely revamped talents or whatever. I don’t see a nes continent as a feature, Shadowlands were not a feature nor where Kul Tiras and Zandalar.

[Teriz]

I don’t know why you call the zones where the expansion takes place in a feature. A revamped Lordaeron would be a consistent continent, so the Cataclysm problem wouldn’t apply here.

Cataclysm had other issues because it really lacked features - LFR came in 4.3 and was despised (although transmog was a hit), no new class, just revamped talent trees… it lacked substance.

Lordaeron just is the new place. Feature could still be new races, new class, completely revamped talents or whatever. I don’t see a nes continent as a feature, Shadowlands were not a feature nor where Kul Tiras and Zandalar.

What? The Shadowlands, Kul Tiras, and Zandalar were absolutely features in their respective expansions. As was Draenor, Pandaria, and Northrend. They were features because they were new places that we had never seen before. We've already seen Lordaeron many times over. Turning the grass from brown to green and adding new quests isn't going to keep people's interest, as Cataclysm proved.

[Varodoc]

Warcraft III and Arthas are, respectively, the most beloved entry and character of the franchise, so if anything it makes sense to make a Lordaeron-based expansion solely for the nostalgia baiting.

Regardless, the expansion will likely still be Dragon Isles, but certain Lordaeron zones will be updated. Like how zones of the old world were updated in BfA.

But what people here are not talking about, strangely and confusingly, is that Humans, Void elves, and Blood elves are by far the most played races in the game. So it just makes sense to devote extra care and attention to their homelands, which by the way are found in the "Lordaeron" subcontinent of the "Eastern Kingdoms" continent.

[Teriz]

But what people here are not talking about, strangely and confusingly, is that Humans, Void elves, and Blood elves are by far the most played races in the game. So it just makes sense to devote extra care and attention to their homelands, which by the way are found in the "Lordaeron" subcontinent of the "Eastern Kingdoms" continent.

Only about 40% of players are Void Elves, Blood Elves, and Humans. Night Elves are more popular than humans, and Void Elves aren't even the most popular AR, Zandalari Trolls are. Considering that over 60% of players are NOT playing Humans or Elves, wouldn't it be smarter for Blizzard to cater to the majority of players instead of the minority? Especially given that we just spent multiple expansions dealing with an Undead Elf?

Also you're wrong cataclysm was only originally hated due to dungeon difficulty which really wasn't that bad especially if me and my bf who are true casuals could get through it.

I never said that Cataclysm was hated. I said that players weren't overly impressed with the entire world getting a revamp. Thus having half a continent getting a revamp as a major expansion feature would simply not be considered anything spectacular. In fact, a revamped Lordaeron as an expansion feature would be viewed as LAZY by most players.

Again, Cataclysm had an entire world revamped AND it included 7 new zones along with 2 new zones for the new Goblin and Worgen race. Yet people still don't view Cataclysm as a great expansion.

[Kiria]

What? The Shadowlands, Kul Tiras, and Zandalar were absolutely features in their respective expansions. As was Draenor, Pandaria, and Northrend. They were features because they were new places that we had never seen before. We've already seen Lordaeron many times over. Turning the grass from brown to green and adding new quests isn't going to keep people's interest, as Cataclysm proved.

Also you're wrong cataclysm was only originally hated due to dungeon difficulty which really wasn't that bad especially if me and my bf who are true casuals could get through it.

[draugril]

Also you're wrong cataclysm was only originally hated due to dungeon difficulty which really wasn't that bad especially if me and my bf who are true casuals could get through it.

Eh, to be fair, people reacted poorly to both things. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Osmeric]

Eh, to be fair, people reacted poorly to both things. They're not mutually exclusive.

It's not just that people didn't like the dungeon difficulty. What was particularly off putting was the perception of what the devs were saying. Basically, "yes, we know some of you like easier content. You can all go fuck yourselves."

Any time the devs appear to be favoring their own selfish conceits over what a group of customers want, they're going to get this reaction.

[Teriz]

It's not just that people didn't like the dungeon difficulty. What was particularly off putting was the perception of what the devs were saying. Basically, "yes, we know some of you like easier content. You can all go fuck yourselves."

Any time the devs appear to be favoring their own selfish conceits over what a group of customers want, they're going to get this reaction.

Eh, people complained about the revamped zones and the disjointed new zones too. Part of the push for Classic was that many players wanted a return to the old world quests that were lost in Cataclysm.

[Lahis]

OVoid Elves aren't even the most popular AR, Zandalari Trolls are.

In absolute or relative numbers? Because if you are counting in absolute numbers, then of course Alliance races will lose to Horde. That's just faction un-balance.

[Teriz]

In absolute or relative numbers? Because if you are counting in absolute numbers, then of course Alliance races will lose to Horde. That's just faction un-balance.

There's only more Horde players than Alliance because of Blood Elves. That has nothing to do with Z Trolls vs Void Elves. Z Trolls are more popular than Void Elves because of their Druid forms, their ability to be Paladins, and the fact that their Hunters can tame dinos from the start.

[Varodoc]

Only about 40% of players are Void Elves, Blood Elves, and Humans. Night Elves are more popular than humans, and Void Elves aren't even the most popular AR, Zandalari Trolls are. Considering that over 60% of players are NOT playing Humans or Elves, wouldn't it be smarter for Blizzard to cater to the majority of players instead of the minority? Especially given that we just spent multiple expansions dealing with an Undead Elf?



I never said that Cataclysm was hated. I said that players weren't overly impressed with the entire world getting a revamp. Thus having half a continent getting a revamp as a major expansion feature would simply not be considered anything spectacular. In fact, a revamped Lordaeron as an expansion feature would be viewed as LAZY by most players.

Again, Cataclysm had an entire world revamped AND it included 7 new zones along with 2 new zones for the new Goblin and Worgen race. Yet people still don't view Cataclysm as a great expansion.

I concede my point, clearly you have inside sources and contacts to have such precise and thorough numbers.

[Gloriandus]

Maybe post-WoD Yrel has been a dreadlord in disguise in order to amass an army for their use and the Scarlets will indeed return, in the WoW trope of manipulated dupes

[Vakir]

Nah Calia as a light infused Undead is fantastic, there's so much potential there and maybe also an avenue to finally adding Undead Paladins.

The issue is more the perception that she's being groomed for a leadership role despite having no common ground with the plight of the Forsaken. Even without that she kind of strikes me as a creator's pet that's going to hijack any developments with them.

I meant her appearance anyway. It's a decent base.

[Makorus]

Yeah...Shadowlands announcement trailer was NOT very HYPE at all (IMO). I remember being confused with it, too.

The Legion announcement trailer is still the most hype imo. Might be because it was the only one I actually saw live in person, but the music was great.

Seeing glimpses of Ashbringer before they actually reveal Artifact weapons was such an amazing move. I remember watching it and was like "Wait, is that the Ashbringer? Nice easter egg haha". And then Order halls. And then the big moment of announcing DHs. Ending with a reference to WC3.

It was really good.

[Izalla]

Usually when Blizz talks about the mistakes of the Cata revamp they reference the fact that the majority of the revamp was for the 1-60 experience and it took a lot of resources away from the max level experience. It's not that people who did level through those zones weren't impressed or happy with the revamp as a whole (though obviously losing the old world didn't feel good and some zone changes were not appreciated, plenty of others were praised at the time and still to this day). The issue was that not everyone cared about leveling a new character and for people who only carried on at max level, a lot of the new stuff was wasted on them. It was a lot of work that only a fraction of the playerbase engaged in at the time.

So the main difference this time would be they would make any revamp include max level content. Will people be annoyed or disappointed by revisiting a new story in an old, updated zone? Perhaps. I'm sure some will. But I expect the amount of people who appreciate seeing an up to date version of Lordaeron that is caught up visually/graphically as well as narratively (for max level and otherwise) would outweigh the people willing to full on quit over such a thing. At this point lots of people are craving Azeroth and grounded stories in the world they love, and that doesn't mean the hottest new recently discovered landmass or planet. So yeah, people will hate it, but people always hate whatever they do and they can't please everyone so it's fine to please a different crowd now after all the cosmic stuff.

[Soulwind]

Maybe post-WoD Yrel has been a dreadlord in disguise in order to amass an army for their use and the Scarlets will indeed return, in the WoW trope of manipulated dupes

Maybe the player was a dreadlord all along.

[Factcheckerr]

If we think that BFA set up both Shadowlands and 10.0, I think it's important to note that BFA set up two light villains: the returning Scarlet Brotherhood and Yrel and her Lightbound. Xalatath came back and is out there but we are currently sitting on more named light antagonists than we are Void or Dragon (three of them, if you count the implication that Lohtraxion is probably evil as well). The Scarlets and Yrel are also tied directly to Warcraft races (Forsaken/Human and Draenei respectively) in a way that Xalatath isn't, and we probably wouldn't get another Void heavy expansion so shortly after BFA.

Dragon Isles are possible still with the Lordaeron focus (maybe the capitals will not be on the islands but will be Lordaeron cities) but its very interesting that we are hyperfocused on the EK now. You would think Night Elves would get something but its looking like that may not happen for a bit unless we are getting a surprise full revamp.

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.