Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makorus]

If we think that BFA set up both Shadowlands and 10.0, I think it's important to note that BFA set up two light villains: the returning Scarlet Brotherhood and Yrel and her Lightbound. Xalatath came back and is out there but we are currently sitting on more named light antagonists than we are Void or Dragon (three of them, if you count the implication that Lohtraxion is probably evil as well). The Scarlets and Yrel are also tied directly to Warcraft races (Forsaken/Human and Draenei respectively) in a way that Xalatath isn't, and we probably wouldn't get another Void heavy expansion so shortly after BFA.

Dragon Isles are possible still with the Lordaeron focus (maybe the capitals will not be on the islands but will be Lordaeron cities) but its very interesting that we are hyperfocused on the EK now. You would think Night Elves would get something but its looking like that may not happen for a bit unless we are getting a surprise full revamp.

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.

One random snippet does not mean that the Scarlet Brotherhood is set up as a villain lmao.

People put too much faith in that pamphlet.

[Varodoc]

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.

They are entitled to this, but Blizzard doesn't care about them.

What they do care about is a comic-relief race like the Dark Irons that only 30 people play.

[Factcheckerr]

One random snippet does not mean that the Scarlet Brotherhood is set up as a villain lmao.

People put too much faith in that pamphlet.

Random? It was put purposefully into the end of the expansion to foreshadow a future expansion. BFA sets a LOT of stuff on Azeroth that isn't cancelled just because Shadowlands happened.

Dragon Isles get one mention: Scarlets get three(?). Far more concrete foreshadowing (this group is coming back) than the crazy fish Tauren and Kul Tirans/Zandalari in Legion pointing to BFA.

[Teriz]

Usually when Blizz talks about the mistakes of the Cata revamp they reference the fact that the majority of the revamp was for the 1-60 experience and it took a lot of resources away from the max level experience. It's not that people who did level through those zoned weren't impressed or happy with the revamp as a whole (though obviously losing the old world didn't feel good and some zone changes were not appreciated, plenty of others were praised at the time and still to this day). The issue was that not everyone cared about leveling a new character and for people who only carried on at max level, a lot of the new stuff wasted them. It was a lot of work that only a fraction of the playerbase engaged in at the time.

So the main difference this time would be they would make any revamp include max level content. Will people be annoyed or disappointed by revisiting a new story in an old, updated zone? Perhaps. I'm sure some will. But I expect the amount of people who appreciate seeing an up to date version of Lordaeron that is caught up visually/graphically as well as narratively (for max level and otherwise) would outweigh the people willing to full on quit over such a thing. At this point lots of people are craving Azeroth and grounded stories in the world they love, and that doesn't mean the hottest new recently discovered landmass or planet. So yeah, people will hate it, but people always hate whatever they do and they can't please everyone so it's fine to please a different crowd now after all the cosmic stuff.

Okay, let's go with this for a moment; The new expansion location is Lordaeron, possibly the entirety of the Northern half of the Eastern Kingdoms;

What is the goal/point of this expansion? Are we moving the Forsaken out of Trisfall Glades? Are we restoring Lordaeron to becoming a Human kingdom again? Are we fighting the Scourge? What are we doing exactly? Blizzard said we're done with faction conflicts, so us removing the Forsaken seems unlikely. Are we seriously going to push the Scarlet Crusade as an antagonistic force that can fight off the Horde AND the Alliance?

Also, modern WoW expansions don't stay in one location. Where else are we going? We can't mope around Lordareon for an entire expansion.

Finally, and most importantly, if I'm an Orc/Troll/Tauren/Goblin Horde player, or an NE/Draenei/Gnome/Dwarf/Worgen Alliance player, why would/should this interest me?

[Factcheckerr]

They are entitled to this, but Blizzard doesn't care about them.

What they do care about is a comic-relief race like the Dark Irons that only 30 people play.

They added in the weapons and mount because no work was required, the items only exist. WoW races are not a meritocracy that get more shit based on how many people play them: Humans and Belfs have got fuck all for a long time.

The Velf weapons also exist so they will be added in.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, let's go with this for a moment; The new expansion location is Lordaeron, possibly the entirety of the Northern half of the Eastern Kingdoms;

What is the goal/point of this expansion? Are we moving the Forsaken out of Trisfall Glades? Are we restoring Lordaeron to becoming a Human kingdom again? Are we fighting the Scourge? What are we doing exactly? Blizzard said we're done with faction conflicts, so us removing the Forsaken seems unlikely. Are we seriously going to push the Scarlet Crusade as an antagonistic force that can fight off the Horde AND the Alliance?

Also, modern WoW expansions don't stay in one location. Where else are we going? We can't mope around Lordareon for an entire expansion.

Finally, and most importantly, if I'm an Orc/Troll/Tauren/Goblin Horde player, why would/should this interest me?

Scarlets + MU Army of Light + AU Lightbound. Danuser was on record saying Yrel would play a part in the future, and then you have the potential of exploring "Lightlands" and whatever creatures come from there to mess with Azeroth.

[Vakir]

I mean Sylvanas lead them with no real connection to them aside from also being undead just like Calia.

Sylvanas still suffered and lacked a will of her own until the Throne was cracked. She still had to contend with being a tool against her own people and lacking her autonomy. The Forsaken died to the Scourge just like she did and pre-Cata were also tools before finding free will.

Calia was completely safe away from Lordaeron while everything happened. From the time she was killed to her revival was extremely brief and the circumstances of her revival are entirely different and it is presented as far less of a "curse" or "torment."

They are thematically far removed from one another. The idea of it is patronizing. Like a trust fund baby teaching the poor unwashed masses how to live.

[Varodoc]

They added in the weapons and mount because no work was required, the items only exist. WoW races are not a meritocracy that get more shit based on how many people play them: Humans and Belfs have got fuck all for a long time.

The Velf weapons also exist so they will be added in.

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

[Khaza-R]

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

LoL's model is a terrible example to raise considering their new champions diversity has gone to shit in the past few years and its plagued with same-face

[Makorus]

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

It's because the player base hates them too, actually.

Everyone hates them. They are a boring variety of elves that adds nothing interesting. They are a retread of Blood Elves.

[Teriz]

Scarlets + MU Army of Light + AU Lightbound. Danuser was on record saying Yrel would play a part in the future, and then you have the potential of exploring "Lightlands" and whatever creatures come from there to mess with Azeroth.

Why would the Army of the Light want to attack the Alliance or the Horde? Their sole enemy is the cosmic void. Also, why would those forces even work together in the first place? The Scarlet Brotherhood would view Yrel as an alien threat just like anyone else would. Further, the Lightbound are not genocidal maniacs, they offer non-members the opportunity to convert. The Scarlets just slaughter the scourge and forsaken indiscriminately. Yrel's forces would not support that.

[Factcheckerr]

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

What single development has the human race seen since Cataclysm?

Anduin =/= humans. Belves have gotten more than them with Legion/BFA/SL advancing their story but there have been absolutely no developments to the Human story beyond the Wrynns since the heelturn of Benedictus... that humans don't even know about in-game.

[draugril]

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

If they "hated" them, they wouldn't exist...

[Vakir]

It's because the player base hates them too, actually.

Everyone hates them. They are a boring variety of elves that adds nothing interesting. They are a retread of Blood Elves.

This. Their popularity is due to their rig and allowing for the fantasy of playing store-brand High Elves.

[Teriz]

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

So long? They're only been a race for 2 expansions.

Gnomes haven't even moved back into their capital despite it being retaken back in WotLK.

[Lahis]

Why would the Army of the Light want to attack the Alliance or the Horde? Their sole enemy is the cosmic void. Also, why would those forces even work together in the first place? The Scarlet Brotherhood would view Yrel as an alien threat just like anyone else would. Further, the Lightbound are not genocidal maniacs, they offer non-members the opportunity to convert. The Scarlets just slaughter the scourge and forsaken indiscriminately. Yrel's forces would not support that.

Just like every other cosmic force, they want to claim Azeroth to turn her into a Light-Titan to conquer other forces and/or use Azerite to power whatever cosmic MacGuffin they are using to Lightforge all of reality.

Plus Azeroth's denizens are diverse and chaotic. They don't adhere to Light's One True Truth -worldview.

[Makorus]

So long? They're only been a race for 2 expansions.

Gnomes haven't even moved back into their capital despite it being retaken back in WotLK.

Honestly, if gnomes get fucked over AGAIN when there's a world revamp, I'll snap.

[Factcheckerr]

Why would the Army of the Light want to attack the Alliance or the Horde? Their sole enemy is the cosmic void. Also, why would those forces even work together in the first place? The Scarlet Brotherhood would view Yrel as an alien threat just like anyone else would. Further, the Lightbound are not genocidal maniacs, they offer non-members the opportunity to convert. The Scarlets just slaughter the scourge and forsaken indiscriminately. Yrel's forces would not support that.

New plot developments. Xe'ra corruption. We already know that the Scarlets have reformed in a "different way" with Calia's child being a prominent figure and/or captive, so clearly something is different about them. They will try to wipe out Calia and the Undead again but surely they would have something more to them.

Army of Light goes with Turalyon, so if Turalyon sides with Xe'ra/Bad Light over Alliance and Horde they go with him. Except for Fareeya(?) who will be "one of the good ones" to show not all of them agree with that idea and so LFD's can still be a playable race.

Yrel's Lightbound has that converting aspect to them so she could be a somewhat more sympathetic force than Scarlets (easy) and Turalyon (if he goes cuckoo).

These three forces being different doesn't go against them working together. If anything it just proves that the Light could make for an interesting antagonist as there are three very distinct groups with different ideologies and functions for us to fight, and one of them (Scarlets) even has a distinct aesthetic that separates it from the other two.

[Varodoc]

What single development has the human race seen since Cataclysm?

Anduin =/= humans. Belves have gotten more than them with Legion/BFA/SL advancing their story but there have been absolutely no developments to the Human story beyond the Wrynns since the heelturn of Benedictus... that humans don't even know about in-game.

Kul Tiras as main continent of BfA and Stromgarde as one of the two Warfronts (major expansion feature) never happened?

[Pheraz]

Since the lore team loves marvel so much... Maybe they do a "civil war" xpac before the next big boom xpac ?

[The Stormbringer]

I get that Sylvanas is in full self pity mode, but holy crap Anduin is right there with her. He was a literal prince of the most affluent kingdom in the alliance compare that to miss rape allegory 2002.

A prince with no parents that became a King at the age of ten. Truly, he lived a life we all would want. /s