Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[draugril]

Also you're wrong cataclysm was only originally hated due to dungeon difficulty which really wasn't that bad especially if me and my bf who are true casuals could get through it.

Eh, to be fair, people reacted poorly to both things. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Osmeric]

Eh, to be fair, people reacted poorly to both things. They're not mutually exclusive.

It's not just that people didn't like the dungeon difficulty. What was particularly off putting was the perception of what the devs were saying. Basically, "yes, we know some of you like easier content. You can all go fuck yourselves."

Any time the devs appear to be favoring their own selfish conceits over what a group of customers want, they're going to get this reaction.

[Teriz]

It's not just that people didn't like the dungeon difficulty. What was particularly off putting was the perception of what the devs were saying. Basically, "yes, we know some of you like easier content. You can all go fuck yourselves."

Any time the devs appear to be favoring their own selfish conceits over what a group of customers want, they're going to get this reaction.

Eh, people complained about the revamped zones and the disjointed new zones too. Part of the push for Classic was that many players wanted a return to the old world quests that were lost in Cataclysm.

[Lahis]

OVoid Elves aren't even the most popular AR, Zandalari Trolls are.

In absolute or relative numbers? Because if you are counting in absolute numbers, then of course Alliance races will lose to Horde. That's just faction un-balance.

[Teriz]

In absolute or relative numbers? Because if you are counting in absolute numbers, then of course Alliance races will lose to Horde. That's just faction un-balance.

There's only more Horde players than Alliance because of Blood Elves. That has nothing to do with Z Trolls vs Void Elves. Z Trolls are more popular than Void Elves because of their Druid forms, their ability to be Paladins, and the fact that their Hunters can tame dinos from the start.

[Varodoc]

Only about 40% of players are Void Elves, Blood Elves, and Humans. Night Elves are more popular than humans, and Void Elves aren't even the most popular AR, Zandalari Trolls are. Considering that over 60% of players are NOT playing Humans or Elves, wouldn't it be smarter for Blizzard to cater to the majority of players instead of the minority? Especially given that we just spent multiple expansions dealing with an Undead Elf?



I never said that Cataclysm was hated. I said that players weren't overly impressed with the entire world getting a revamp. Thus having half a continent getting a revamp as a major expansion feature would simply not be considered anything spectacular. In fact, a revamped Lordaeron as an expansion feature would be viewed as LAZY by most players.

Again, Cataclysm had an entire world revamped AND it included 7 new zones along with 2 new zones for the new Goblin and Worgen race. Yet people still don't view Cataclysm as a great expansion.

I concede my point, clearly you have inside sources and contacts to have such precise and thorough numbers.

[Gloriandus]

Maybe post-WoD Yrel has been a dreadlord in disguise in order to amass an army for their use and the Scarlets will indeed return, in the WoW trope of manipulated dupes

[Vakir]

Nah Calia as a light infused Undead is fantastic, there's so much potential there and maybe also an avenue to finally adding Undead Paladins.

The issue is more the perception that she's being groomed for a leadership role despite having no common ground with the plight of the Forsaken. Even without that she kind of strikes me as a creator's pet that's going to hijack any developments with them.

I meant her appearance anyway. It's a decent base.

[Makorus]

Yeah...Shadowlands announcement trailer was NOT very HYPE at all (IMO). I remember being confused with it, too.

The Legion announcement trailer is still the most hype imo. Might be because it was the only one I actually saw live in person, but the music was great.

Seeing glimpses of Ashbringer before they actually reveal Artifact weapons was such an amazing move. I remember watching it and was like "Wait, is that the Ashbringer? Nice easter egg haha". And then Order halls. And then the big moment of announcing DHs. Ending with a reference to WC3.

It was really good.

[Izalla]

Usually when Blizz talks about the mistakes of the Cata revamp they reference the fact that the majority of the revamp was for the 1-60 experience and it took a lot of resources away from the max level experience. It's not that people who did level through those zones weren't impressed or happy with the revamp as a whole (though obviously losing the old world didn't feel good and some zone changes were not appreciated, plenty of others were praised at the time and still to this day). The issue was that not everyone cared about leveling a new character and for people who only carried on at max level, a lot of the new stuff was wasted on them. It was a lot of work that only a fraction of the playerbase engaged in at the time.

So the main difference this time would be they would make any revamp include max level content. Will people be annoyed or disappointed by revisiting a new story in an old, updated zone? Perhaps. I'm sure some will. But I expect the amount of people who appreciate seeing an up to date version of Lordaeron that is caught up visually/graphically as well as narratively (for max level and otherwise) would outweigh the people willing to full on quit over such a thing. At this point lots of people are craving Azeroth and grounded stories in the world they love, and that doesn't mean the hottest new recently discovered landmass or planet. So yeah, people will hate it, but people always hate whatever they do and they can't please everyone so it's fine to please a different crowd now after all the cosmic stuff.

[Soulwind]

Maybe post-WoD Yrel has been a dreadlord in disguise in order to amass an army for their use and the Scarlets will indeed return, in the WoW trope of manipulated dupes

Maybe the player was a dreadlord all along.

[Factcheckerr]

If we think that BFA set up both Shadowlands and 10.0, I think it's important to note that BFA set up two light villains: the returning Scarlet Brotherhood and Yrel and her Lightbound. Xalatath came back and is out there but we are currently sitting on more named light antagonists than we are Void or Dragon (three of them, if you count the implication that Lohtraxion is probably evil as well). The Scarlets and Yrel are also tied directly to Warcraft races (Forsaken/Human and Draenei respectively) in a way that Xalatath isn't, and we probably wouldn't get another Void heavy expansion so shortly after BFA.

Dragon Isles are possible still with the Lordaeron focus (maybe the capitals will not be on the islands but will be Lordaeron cities) but its very interesting that we are hyperfocused on the EK now. You would think Night Elves would get something but its looking like that may not happen for a bit unless we are getting a surprise full revamp.

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.

[Makorus]

If we think that BFA set up both Shadowlands and 10.0, I think it's important to note that BFA set up two light villains: the returning Scarlet Brotherhood and Yrel and her Lightbound. Xalatath came back and is out there but we are currently sitting on more named light antagonists than we are Void or Dragon (three of them, if you count the implication that Lohtraxion is probably evil as well). The Scarlets and Yrel are also tied directly to Warcraft races (Forsaken/Human and Draenei respectively) in a way that Xalatath isn't, and we probably wouldn't get another Void heavy expansion so shortly after BFA.

Dragon Isles are possible still with the Lordaeron focus (maybe the capitals will not be on the islands but will be Lordaeron cities) but its very interesting that we are hyperfocused on the EK now. You would think Night Elves would get something but its looking like that may not happen for a bit unless we are getting a surprise full revamp.

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.

One random snippet does not mean that the Scarlet Brotherhood is set up as a villain lmao.

People put too much faith in that pamphlet.

[Varodoc]

Also: we should be getting the Void Elf Heritage update as they have unused weapons from Legion/BFA. That's another EK race.

They are entitled to this, but Blizzard doesn't care about them.

What they do care about is a comic-relief race like the Dark Irons that only 30 people play.

[Factcheckerr]

One random snippet does not mean that the Scarlet Brotherhood is set up as a villain lmao.

People put too much faith in that pamphlet.

Random? It was put purposefully into the end of the expansion to foreshadow a future expansion. BFA sets a LOT of stuff on Azeroth that isn't cancelled just because Shadowlands happened.

Dragon Isles get one mention: Scarlets get three(?). Far more concrete foreshadowing (this group is coming back) than the crazy fish Tauren and Kul Tirans/Zandalari in Legion pointing to BFA.

[Teriz]

Usually when Blizz talks about the mistakes of the Cata revamp they reference the fact that the majority of the revamp was for the 1-60 experience and it took a lot of resources away from the max level experience. It's not that people who did level through those zoned weren't impressed or happy with the revamp as a whole (though obviously losing the old world didn't feel good and some zone changes were not appreciated, plenty of others were praised at the time and still to this day). The issue was that not everyone cared about leveling a new character and for people who only carried on at max level, a lot of the new stuff wasted them. It was a lot of work that only a fraction of the playerbase engaged in at the time.

So the main difference this time would be they would make any revamp include max level content. Will people be annoyed or disappointed by revisiting a new story in an old, updated zone? Perhaps. I'm sure some will. But I expect the amount of people who appreciate seeing an up to date version of Lordaeron that is caught up visually/graphically as well as narratively (for max level and otherwise) would outweigh the people willing to full on quit over such a thing. At this point lots of people are craving Azeroth and grounded stories in the world they love, and that doesn't mean the hottest new recently discovered landmass or planet. So yeah, people will hate it, but people always hate whatever they do and they can't please everyone so it's fine to please a different crowd now after all the cosmic stuff.

Okay, let's go with this for a moment; The new expansion location is Lordaeron, possibly the entirety of the Northern half of the Eastern Kingdoms;

What is the goal/point of this expansion? Are we moving the Forsaken out of Trisfall Glades? Are we restoring Lordaeron to becoming a Human kingdom again? Are we fighting the Scourge? What are we doing exactly? Blizzard said we're done with faction conflicts, so us removing the Forsaken seems unlikely. Are we seriously going to push the Scarlet Crusade as an antagonistic force that can fight off the Horde AND the Alliance?

Also, modern WoW expansions don't stay in one location. Where else are we going? We can't mope around Lordareon for an entire expansion.

Finally, and most importantly, if I'm an Orc/Troll/Tauren/Goblin Horde player, or an NE/Draenei/Gnome/Dwarf/Worgen Alliance player, why would/should this interest me?

[Factcheckerr]

They are entitled to this, but Blizzard doesn't care about them.

What they do care about is a comic-relief race like the Dark Irons that only 30 people play.

They added in the weapons and mount because no work was required, the items only exist. WoW races are not a meritocracy that get more shit based on how many people play them: Humans and Belfs have got fuck all for a long time.

The Velf weapons also exist so they will be added in.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, let's go with this for a moment; The new expansion location is Lordaeron, possibly the entirety of the Northern half of the Eastern Kingdoms;

What is the goal/point of this expansion? Are we moving the Forsaken out of Trisfall Glades? Are we restoring Lordaeron to becoming a Human kingdom again? Are we fighting the Scourge? What are we doing exactly? Blizzard said we're done with faction conflicts, so us removing the Forsaken seems unlikely. Are we seriously going to push the Scarlet Crusade as an antagonistic force that can fight off the Horde AND the Alliance?

Also, modern WoW expansions don't stay in one location. Where else are we going? We can't mope around Lordareon for an entire expansion.

Finally, and most importantly, if I'm an Orc/Troll/Tauren/Goblin Horde player, why would/should this interest me?

Scarlets + MU Army of Light + AU Lightbound. Danuser was on record saying Yrel would play a part in the future, and then you have the potential of exploring "Lightlands" and whatever creatures come from there to mess with Azeroth.

[Vakir]

I mean Sylvanas lead them with no real connection to them aside from also being undead just like Calia.

Sylvanas still suffered and lacked a will of her own until the Throne was cracked. She still had to contend with being a tool against her own people and lacking her autonomy. The Forsaken died to the Scourge just like she did and pre-Cata were also tools before finding free will.

Calia was completely safe away from Lordaeron while everything happened. From the time she was killed to her revival was extremely brief and the circumstances of her revival are entirely different and it is presented as far less of a "curse" or "torment."

They are thematically far removed from one another. The idea of it is patronizing. Like a trust fund baby teaching the poor unwashed masses how to live.

[Varodoc]

They added in the weapons and mount because no work was required, the items only exist. WoW races are not a meritocracy that get more shit based on how many people play them: Humans and Belfs have got fuck all for a long time.

The Velf weapons also exist so they will be added in.

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

[Khaza-R]

Nope, that is exactly how it works, and that's why Humans and Blood elves get lore developments every expansion. That is also how other (more) popular games work, see for example how in LoL only the most popular champions get the legendary and ultimate skins.

That the Void elves haven't got anything new in so long is simply because Blizzard hates them...

LoL's model is a terrible example to raise considering their new champions diversity has gone to shit in the past few years and its plagued with same-face