Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

Here's the thing - the boring medieval baseline? It's the glue that holds everything together and makes the franchise, pardon he pun, fantastic. The spaceships and steampunk and cosmic stuff works best when it is contrasted with the mundane baseline. When that stuff becomes the baseline... it's boring. The contrast is what makes it fun and appealing.

Which is why I'm more inclined to believe that an Undermine/Dragon Isles expansion is next. It simply makes more sense on multiple levels.

[SunspotAnims]

And if players were to finally reject these meagre offerings and demand more before opening up their wallets... that would be the only thing that actually kills WoW. They're infinitely more likely to just shut it down than reinvest any significant resources into it.

I find this assertion particularly hard to believe primarily due to the upcoming Microsoft acquisition. Maybe this would be plausible in the event of ActiBlizz making this decision on its own, but that is soon to be no longer possible.

I sincerely believe Microsoft wouldn't have spent the ridiculous amount of money that they did on these IPs if they weren't intent on investing heavily in making them popular. Sure, that means they'd invest in more than just Warcraft, or even more than just WoW under the Warcraft IP, but I think "investment" in Warcraft is going to be more likely than you think over the next several years.

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I hope for C, as with most people probably. Something that could make the revamp easier for quests and assets is to merge zones into blocks. So 2+ zones become 1. Instead of Eastern and Western plaguelands merge it into Plaguelands (or whatever name), have another zone be the Blackrock mountain block, Stranglethorn cape, Barrens once again (build bridges over the ravine), Nighelf Homeland block (Ashenvale and Darkshore, maybe Felwood), pull a cool desert/nature plot by uniting Feralas and Desolace, Quelthalas (unite the 2 zones), Lordaeron block, Dwarven Block (Dun Morog, Loch Modan) and of course more.

There is no reason to have all these zones, they were added like so in vanilla for different leveling paths and options, but I think it would be much better to just combine some of them. Put them on a new map and have the old world accessed through chromie or a portal.
Also bring in all the new races and allied races and NPC factions into zones where it makes sense, quality assets you can use to push the story into different directions. And I assume by this point at least Pandaren would've crossed to the continents.

Even more ideal would be if we got an update to everything cata and before, including Outland and Northrend.

I hadn't thought about the "merging zones" thing until folks started bringing it up recently but it does make a lot of since for a possible revamp. Critically, the old world is hampered by blobby mountains separating basically every zone. This was done in the past because the devs couldn't think of a better way to have every zone be visually distinct without mixing poorly with their neighboring zones. This mostly hasn't been the case anymore for years because the environment artists got smarter about how biomes naturally blend into each other. If they were looking at ways to bring old zones more up-to-date then merging similar-looking zones, flattening out some of those mountains that separate them, and building more transitional sub-biomes in their place would be a very logical way to do it. It'd also have the added benefit of making the playable space larger, since a lot of those mountains were effectively unplayable areas anyway.

[Triceron]

Mop still had more subs than the alter expansions, wow had a time that it ha to drop, it could not sustain itself rly, yeah the theme isn't popular with edgy people, but that is not a msitake by itself and that is what im talking about

It's a mistake in that it was a risk that didn't have a significant payoff for all the effort that went into it. It wasn't a mistake of being terrible or mediocre, it's a mistake of being picking a theme that had mixed reception and was generally poorly received by the market they tailored it for.

I have doubts they would want to make this mistake again with doubling down on some Goblin and Gnome expansion, especially when they can simply introduce them as a supporting subtheme just as Mechagon came and went. Even Undermine can be introduced without being a 'Goblin expansion', simply by being a questing hub or a large neutral city, like a new Dalaran. The focus of the expansion's overall theme can easily be on the big new threat, whether it's more Old God shenanigans or the return of Azshara or whatever.

they did stories with goblins and gnomes, they sure can do with pandarens, it doesn't need to be an entire patch about then, theye ven tocuhed on pandren stuff with monk class hall shenanigans.

Problem is a neutrla race ina faction where they kill each other is DOA.

That's the problem isn't it? They didn't even continue the Aysa-Ji stories at all. They just dropped it entirely. Hard. These characters have become absolutely insignificant even though they're our Pandaren connections to each faction.

Their story is DOA because Blizzard doesn't want to draw attention to them at all. Being a neutral faction has nothing to do with it since they already introduced them as rivalling tribes. They even wrote in a falling out between the two characters. But they ended up having the two characters show empathy for each other, and that's pretty much where the entire Pandaren story starts and ends. Otherwise the NPCs just appear at certain major events without contributing any significant story. They're just there for the sake of it, which is pretty much all the reason we have for why Pandaren are even playable right now. The sake of it.

[Nyel]

What? The Shadowlands, Kul Tiras, and Zandalar were absolutely features in their respective expansions. As was Draenor, Pandaria, and Northrend. They were features because they were new places that we had never seen before. We've already seen Lordaeron many times over. Turning the grass from brown to green and adding new quests isn't going to keep people's interest, as Cataclysm proved.

Sorry, I really don’t follow your logic here. New zones are not features. They’re new content. And a revamped Lordaeron would be exactly that. I mean you even listed Draenor which is just Outland B.C. - they could do the same to Lordaeron, it could be completely altered after the Scourge has been purged and cities and places rebuilt etc.

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Honestly, if gnomes get fucked over AGAIN when there's a world revamp, I'll snap.

I know this sounds harsh, but nobody cares about Gnomes. Or Goblins.

It’s not my opinion. I think both races should have their own stories expanded. But the overall playerbase just actively dislikes them, Gnomes more than Goblins even. Just look at the Mechagnomes disaster as AR. A gigantic flop.

[Grimbold21]

Sorry, I really don’t follow your logic here. New zones are not features. They’re new content. And a revamped Lordaeron would be exactly that. I mean you even listed Draenor which is just Outland B.C. - they could do the same to Lordaeron, it could be completely altered after the Scourge has been purged and cities and places rebuilt etc.

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I know this sounds harsh, but nobody cares about Gnomes. Or Goblins.

It’s not my opinion. I think both races should have their own stories expanded. But the overall playerbase just actively dislikes them, Gnomes more than Goblins even. Just look at the Mechagnomes disaster as AR. A gigantic flop.

Gnomes are the only race towards which genocide is acceptable.

Blizzard should combine cross-faction with Warmode just so Horde can kill gnomes while having their cross-faction enabled

This reminds me that, if there are two players of the same faction with warmode on, and one of them has cross-faction on, the player who doesn't have it enabled should be able to attack the one who has it on.

[Kiria]

Gnomes are the only race towards which genocide is acceptable.

Blizzard should combine cross-faction with Warmode just so Horde can kill gnomes while having their cross-faction enabled

This reminds me that, if there are two players of the same faction with warmode on, and one of them has cross-faction on, the player who doesn't have it enabled should be able to attack the one who has it on.

Genocide to gnomes and goblins is perfectly acceptable some of my fave quests involves mass murder of both them races.

[Shadochi]

Genocide to gnomes and goblins is perfectly acceptable some of my fave quests involves mass murder of both them races.

I miss the WQ un Zuldazar where you are the giant lava elemental on a beach, going over goblins

[Kiria]

I miss the WQ un Zuldazar where you are the giant lava elemental on a beach, going over goblins

Yeeeesssssss and the one in cataclysm were you mass murderer gnomes... So much fun.

[Dracullus]

I mean isn't Lordaeron like... massive? Western + Easter Plaguelands, Tirisfal, Silverpine Forest and if they add the Blood Elf zones (which would make a lot of sense) it's already a pretty impressive area that might be covered, isn't it? They could add Gilneas et voila, massive "continent".

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Map-Comparison

EK is big, but not that big. BfA is not there, can't find thread with it, but it was around 15M^2 put together. It's enough for expanded/reimagined northern part of EK+Blood Elf areas.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So after all that datamining where we all at today? Personally, more I think on it the more I feel I'm right back where I akways end up.

Old World Revamp (mostly just HD graphics and scrubbing out dead faction leaders except the obvious NElves and Undead)
The plot is just Blizzard Steals Shadowbringers (I briefly waffled on that but the Scarlet Crusade/Prince brought me back to it)
I can't tell you where the new zones will be but it won't be phased lordaeron.

[Teriz]

So after all that datamining where we all at today? Personally, more I think on it the more I feel I'm right back where I akways end up.

Old World Revamp (mostly just HD graphics and scrubbing out dead faction leaders except the obvious NElves and Undead)
The plot is just Blizzard Steals Shadowbringers (I briefly waffled on that but the Scarlet Crusade/Prince brought me back to it)
I can't tell you where the new zones will be but it won't be phased lordaeron.

We can simply use the "Save the Date" map that Blizzard released with the April 19th announcement:



I'm going to assume that the next new landmass will be in one of those circled areas, with the area between Kalimdor, Maelstrom, and Pandaria being the most likely location due to land distribution.

[The Stormbringer]

I'm hoping that's just a tease of what's to come in 10.0, rather than a one off thing.

The Dream™ would be that yes, this is a preview of what's to come for the expansion. Racial events that'll be happening for not one or two people, but everyone. Little quest chains scattered across the world, letting us know what's going on with people today, giving us thematic and fun rewards along with the experience. The best way to do that would involve zone revamps, or at least zone updates if not full graphical and quest revamps.

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We can simply use the "Save the Date" map that Blizzard released with the April 19th announcement:



I'm going to assume that the next new landmass will be in one of those circled areas, with the area between Kalimdor, Maelstrom, and Pandaria being the most likely location due to land distribution.

Personally I'm kind of torn with all these landmasses popping up where before it was just empty water. It makes it feel like we're extremely unaware of what's out there, despite the fact that a lot of these places have existed for a very long time, and consequentially should have been on maps before now.

That's kind of why I like how FF14 does their world map. There's just a mass of clouds obscuring all the areas that haven't been explored, and then the clouds disappear when new areas are discovered. At least, I think that's how they do it.

[AngerFork]

So after all that datamining where we all at today? Personally, more I think on it the more I feel I'm right back where I akways end up.

Old World Revamp (mostly just HD graphics and scrubbing out dead faction leaders except the obvious NElves and Undead)
The plot is just Blizzard Steals Shadowbringers (I briefly waffled on that but the Scarlet Crusade/Prince brought me back to it)
I can't tell you where the new zones will be but it won't be phased lordaeron.

- Still very much on the World Revamp for 11.0 rather than 10.0 train after that, especially with the minor shifts in the SW & Org map. No reason to do that if you are just going to replace those maps in a few months. We might get a few changes, especially around leadership.

- Related to those new areas, I'm very much stumped as to what could go in those new spots, especially in SW. Doesn't look like a great spot for a new class representative, and most new races would likely be centered more around the embassies.

- I'm a bit less on the Dragon Isles train, given the seeming lack of dragon lore and/or assistance in the quests we've seen.

- Starting to think the Lightforged Undead option may be more of a likely scenario with the encrypted Tirisfal map. As it's unlikely that it was encrypted simply for a week to hide the results of Epilogue: Judgement, I feel that the encryption must be to hide something from 10.0 which could well point to an Allied Race. Either way, I think the Light is going to be a major part of 10.0, whatever it is.

- The Khadgar/Jaina dialogue worries me, kind of wondering if he may die soon.

[Teriz]

Sorry, I really don’t follow your logic here. New zones are not features. They’re new content. And a revamped Lordaeron would be exactly that. I mean you even listed Draenor which is just Outland B.C. - they could do the same to Lordaeron, it could be completely altered after the Scourge has been purged and cities and places rebuilt etc.

That's a really terrible comparison. Draenor was COMPLETELY different than Outland. Shadowmoon Valley for example was a literal hellscape in TBC, but was a lush moonlit forestland in WoD. They're not going to completely remake Lodraeon on that level. Hell, they're not even going to move the Undead out of Trisfall or give Lordaeron back to the Alliance.

I know this sounds harsh, but nobody cares about Gnomes. Or Goblins.

It’s not my opinion. I think both races should have their own stories expanded. But the overall playerbase just actively dislikes them, Gnomes more than Goblins even. Just look at the Mechagnomes disaster as AR. A gigantic flop.

That's quite the take when Mechagon is brought into the equation, which was generally well-received by the playerbase. Some even preferring it to Nazajatar and Azshara content.

That said, Mechagnomes are an AR disaster because like Goblins and Gnomes, there's no class that really fits them. Kind of bizarre to have a race of cyborgs and they can only roll medieval RPG classes.

[Kiria]

That's a really terrible comparison. Draenor was COMPLETELY different than Outland. Shadowmoon Valley for example was a literal hellscape in TBC, but was a lush moonlit forestland in WoD. They're not going to completely remake Lodraeon on that level. Hell, they're not even going to move the Undead out of Trisfall or give Lordaeron back to the Alliance.




That's quite the take when Mechagon is brought into the equation, which was generally well-received by the playerbase. Some even preferring it to Nazajatar and Azshara content.

That said, Mechagnomes are an AR disaster because like Goblins and Gnomes, there's no class that really fits them. Kind of bizarre to have a race of cyborgs and they can only roll medieval RPG classes.

Gnomes and goblins are not popular enough to warrant their own class,it would be an extremely huge risk for devs to take a chance on them, they need to impress people not give them a class for extremely underplayed races that have proven not to be popular.

They'd be better of designing blademaster for orcs and moon priestesses for nelves.

[Teriz]

Gnomes and goblins are not popular enough to warrant their own class,it would be an extremely huge risk for devs to take a chance on them, they need to impress people not give them a class for extremely underplayed races that have proven not to be popular.

It's doubtful that Blizzard would base future class popularity on current race populations. Your argument here is that the only people interested in the class are currently playing Goblin and Gnome characters. That makes little sense. In reality, future players of the class would also be people currently playing other classes (especially the G&G Hunter players) and potential players currently not playing WoW, since the class would bring a new archetype into the game.

Anecdotal example; My current main is a Draenei Shaman.

[Kiria]

It's doubtful that Blizzard would base future class popularity on current race populations. Your argument here is that the only people interested in the class are currently playing Goblin and Gnome characters. That makes little sense. In reality, future players of the class would also be people currently playing other classes (especially the G&G Hunter players) and potential players currently not playing WoW, since the class would bring a new archetype into the game.

Anecdotal example; My current main is a Draenei Shaman.

You're grasping at straws because you have no proof these people exist, you only speak for yourself.

[Teriz]

You're grasping at straws because you have no proof these people exist, you only speak for yourself.

The multiple polls we have on this site where the Tinker either wins out, or is near the top of the poll is quite a bit of proof. If your argument was accurate, a class based on the least played races should be the least desired class concept.

Anyway, there's no need to get into a tit-for-tat over this. The concept's viability wasn't really the point of the conversation here.

[Kiria]

The multiple polls we have on this site where the Tinker either wins out, or is near the top of the poll is quite a bit of proof. If your argument was accurate, a class based on the least played races should be the least desired class concept.

In minority areas like fansites, it's false information and iirc Tinkers didn't win the last poll on this forum, again grasping at straws.

[Varx]

Gnomes and goblins are not popular enough to warrant their own class,it would be an extremely huge risk for devs to take a chance on them, they need to impress people not give them a class for extremely underplayed races that have proven not to be popular.

They'd be better of designing blademaster for orcs and moon priestesses for nelves.

Who cares if gnomes and gobs are underplayed.

Pandaren didn't even exist as playable races before they decided to make a class around their little bit of lore before mop.

But they figured a martial arts class would fit in wow and cover an archetype that wasnt covered yet.

Same with Tinkers, gnomes and and gobs don't need to be the only race that can be them. We already see how popular engineering is so playing a tech based class would be super popular.

The setting doesn't even need to be all gnomes and gobs either to introduce it anyway

I've already came up with a reasonable way a dragon isles expansion can have Tinkers too.

Imagine tinker orcs, forsaken, dwarves, draenie, belves, humans to name a few.

You SERIOUSLY think that shit wouldn't be popular?? Lol come on take off your bias glasses.