Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

As I said, compared to recent first patches it takes a while. But for the wait between for instance 8.2 and 8.3 this is about right, not that I think it should take this long, but it isn't an obscene amount of time.

Also MoP was clearly an outlier. That expansion had its entire run from launch to final patch in less than a year.

Ahh found the youtube comment where I did a fresh take on patches. That was two days ago. And yeah I was wrong about Legion.

Ahemm:

Well we are 189 into 9.0 so saying it is the longest patch wait is a bit of an understatement.
In Vanilla we were at 1.4.2 and about a week from 1.5
In TBC we were at 2.1.3
In Wrath we were at 3.1.2
In Cata we were at 4.1a and exactly two weeks from 4.2
For MoP we were a month into 5.2 and a little less than two months from 5.3
WoD had us a month from 6.2
Legion at this point was three weeks from 7.2
And lastly BfA released 8.1.5 with the mini raid and two allied races a week prior.

If the release is at least a month from now .2 patches won't be outliers anymore.

[Raetary]

Meh, the Tyrande aftermath is just a cutscene...

My fault for expecting anything better i guess.

[Revamp Man]

Ahh found the youtube comment where I did a fresh take on patches. That was two days ago. And yeah I was wrong about Legion.

Ahemm:



If the release is at least a month from now .2 patches won't be outliers anymore.

3 weeks to 9.1
2 weeks after launch raid will hit

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People playing PTR, correct me if I'm wrong.

So 9.1 campaign will be weekly and connected to Renown like 9.0 one.
Raid likely will release on or around week 3.

So.. does later campaign chapters acknowledge events of raid or ignore them?

Any story connected to the raid assume at worst the lfr timelin Also the story isn’t really designed to be gated since it has a very linear finish

[Nyel]

Meh the Tyrande aftermath is just a cutscene...

My fault for expecting anything better i guess.

Lol thank god it wasn't more, she might have tripped and died.

[TheFirstOnes]

Meh, the Tyrande aftermath is just a cutscene...

My fault for expecting anything better i guess.

There is gonna be more after this.

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Cause lots of stuff from the actual quests afterward wouldn’t make sense. Like what Elune said to Tyrande, Elunes apparently voice, and the Tear of Elune

[Sondrelk]

Seems like flying is given to players right after the first covenant quest at Renown level 44, so second week at the latest.

I guess my amazing bag of Twigin Treats got at least a couple good months of being useful.

Maybe one day flying will be designed in such a way as to not completely undermine all other movement options. I mean honestly, covenant specific teleports are only the tiniest bit more useful than flying, and that is only in a single zone.

Why can't we at least try and petition Blizzard to at least change the mechanics of flying to not be so incredibly boring. When I think fun flying I think Minecraft and the Elytra, not noclip.

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3 weeks to 9.1
2 weeks after launch raid will hit

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Any story connected to the raid assume at worst the lfr timelin Also the story isn’t really designed to be gated since it has a very linear finish

The questlines aren't really designed with LFR in mind anymore. They mostly just give you the quest to kill the final raid boss and assume you will have completed it by the next week.

[Kiivar86]

Why can't we at least try and petition Blizzard to at least change the mechanics of flying to not be so incredibly boring. When I think fun flying I think Minecraft and the Elytra, not noclip.

Can you explain how that works? I haven't played Minecraft in probably 8 years.

[Sondrelk]

Can you explain how that works? I haven't played Minecraft in probably 8 years.

It has momentum, meaning you gain speed as you go down and lose speed going up or level. (Like how real gliding would work)
It used to have no means of gaining momentum other than gravity, but they did eventually add the ability to use craftable fireworks as booster rockets.

So essentially, in Minecraft you have two types of flying. One that requires skill and resources for the actual game, and a completely consequence free noclip version for Creative. In WoW we only have the noclip version, and that is for the actual game with actual mechanics.

[Kiivar86]

Gotcha.

Could work though there should still be a way to hover in place, I feel.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It has momentum, meaning you gain speed as you go down and lose speed going up or level. (Like how real gliding would work)
It used to have no means of gaining momentum other than gravity, but they did eventually add the ability to use craftable fireworks as booster rockets.

So essentially, in Minecraft you have two types of flying. One that requires skill and resources for the actual game, and a completely consequence free noclip version for Creative. In WoW we only have the noclip version, and that is for the actual game with actual mechanics.

Well, that's nonsense, though. Why would they need that for a game that isn't focused very much on locomotion? This is a game far more focused on combat and social mechanics than movement, which here is little more than a means of reaching the destination of where the actual gameplay is. All this would become is a total inconvenience for everyone, since no-one really plays World of Warcraft for its riveting movement mechanics.

[Sondrelk]

Well, that's nonsense, though. Why would they need that for a game that isn't focused very much on locomotion? This is a game far more focused on combat and social mechanics than movement, which here is little more than a means of reaching the destination of where the actual gameplay is. All this would become is a total inconvenience for everyone, since no-one really plays World of Warcraft for its riveting movement mechanics.

Because the content is on the ground, and as it stands flying over combat, obstacles and even enviromental puzzles is a no-brainer unless you are going out of your way to make the game harder on yourself.
Imagine for instance if you had the ability ot turn on godmode, where enemies couldnt hurt you, and you instakilled any enemy you met in outdoor content, even elites, rares and world bosses. THen imagine that this mode had no downsides and was in fact just given to you at some point. Then imagine that players threatened to quit the game if they couldnt be allowed to go around in current content idly ignoring what should be essential parts of the game.

Besides, flying is also not fun as a mechanic. There is no inherent gameplay to it that players can really learn and exploit for a deeper gameplay experience. At best you have things like flying between things.
I had this discussion with someone on a different thread. That flying in WoW is easier and has less inherent downsides than even games like Just Cause. And the entire point of that game is giving players as many tools of destruction as possible. And even that game recognized that you need some mechanics to flight to make utlizing it more fun.

And of course these two issues are linked. You can't really design the game world around flying because all flying is in WoW is the ability ot ignore gravity when not in combat. If it required some level of skill, or could not be used with great accuracy then you could have gameplay around it, instead of now when flying is the point where gameplay simply stops.

[Dracullus]

We have first blue post to prepare people for 9.1. This and mediocre hype for TBC makes June date almost certain.

[Sondrelk]

Gotcha.

Could work though there should still be a way to hover in place, I feel.

The big question is why do you need to hover. Why can't you jsut land instead? At a stretch you could say it gives the player what is essentially a pause function in the game, but the game isnt really frnatic enough that one couldnt simply find a place with no hostile mobs and stay still on the gorund while you refill your glass of water or answer the door or whatever.

The core issue with flying is that it doesnt give any gameplay, instead it removes it. Being restricted to the ground gives organic gameplay moments simply from trying to get past obstacles, whereas the flying we have now doesnt have anything like that.
It is quite telling when the coolest trick the game can offer from flying is the the button that allows you to fly upside down. It doesnt do anything or require skill, it just looks kinda neat for those who are not aware it could be done.

[Lady Atia]

Because the content is on the ground, and as it stands flying over combat, obstacles and even enviromental puzzles is a no-brainer unless you are going out of your way to make the game harder on yourself.
Imagine for instance if you had the ability ot turn on godmode, where enemies couldnt hurt you, and you instakilled any enemy you met in outdoor content, even elites, rares and world bosses. THen imagine that this mode had no downsides and was in fact just given to you at some point. Then imagine that players threatened to quit the game if they couldnt be allowed to go around in current content idly ignoring what should be essential parts of the game.

Besides, flying is also not fun as a mechanic. There is no inherent gameplay to it that players can really learn and exploit for a deeper gameplay experience. At best you have things like flying between things.
I had this discussion with someone on a different thread. That flying in WoW is easier and has less inherent downsides than even games like Just Cause. And the entire point of that game is giving players as many tools of destruction as possible. And even that game recognized that you need some mechanics to flight to make utlizing it more fun.

And of course these two issues are linked. You can't really design the game world around flying because all flying is in WoW is the ability ot ignore gravity when not in combat. If it required some level of skill, or could not be used with great accuracy then you could have gameplay around it, instead of now when flying is the point where gameplay simply stops.

No thanks. I rather take the current flying than some boring gliding "that requires skill". Besides that, it's already far too late for that - it would have worked with TBC release, not with 10.0 ...

[Sondrelk]

No thanks. I rather take the current flying than some boring gliding "that requires skill". Besides that, it's already far too late for that - it would have worked with TBC release, not with 10.0 ...

It's never too late to fix your mistakes. That is why we now have world quests that make use of more of a zone and rares and puzzles that give actual fun rewards instead of the travesty of an overworld we had in WoD.

Like many issues in the game this is one where Blizzard just needs to rip the bandaid off. Stop with the half-measures and actually commit to making the unpopular choice for the betterment of the game as a whole.

[huth]

Because the content is on the ground, and as it stands flying over combat, obstacles and even enviromental puzzles is a no-brainer unless you are going out of your way to make the game harder on yourself.

All the more reason not to invest huge amounts of resources into a mode of movement the game isn't focusing on. Your argument works better for removing it entirely than reworking it.

[Sondrelk]

All the more reason not to invest huge amounts of resources into a mode of movement the game isn't focusing on. Your argument works better for removing it entirely than reworking it.

The only reason I am more for heavily reworking it is because having so many flying mounts be made obsolete in a way would be a shame.

Besides, content designed around flying could work and is an intriguing concept for future zones, it just wouldnt work with the current version of flying at all.

[Lady Atia]

It's never too late to fix your mistakes. That is why we now have world quests that make use of more of a zone and rares and puzzles that give actual fun rewards instead of the travesty of an overworld we had in WoD.

Like many issues in the game this is one where Blizzard just needs to rip the bandaid off. Stop with the half-measures and actually commit to making the unpopular choice for the betterment of the game as a whole.

But it wouldn't be better for the game, it would make it way worse. If I want to play jump and run and glide games, I can play something else, thanks.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Because the content is on the ground, and as it stands flying over combat, obstacles and even enviromental puzzles is a no-brainer unless you are going out of your way to make the game harder on yourself.
Imagine for instance if you had the ability ot turn on godmode, where enemies couldnt hurt you, and you instakilled any enemy you met in outdoor content, even elites, rares and world bosses. THen imagine that this mode had no downsides and was in fact just given to you at some point. Then imagine that players threatened to quit the game if they couldnt be allowed to go around in current content idly ignoring what should be essential parts of the game.

Besides, flying is also not fun as a mechanic. There is no inherent gameplay to it that players can really learn and exploit for a deeper gameplay experience. At best you have things like flying between things.
I had this discussion with someone on a different thread. That flying in WoW is easier and has less inherent downsides than even games like Just Cause. And the entire point of that game is giving players as many tools of destruction as possible. And even that game recognized that you need some mechanics to flight to make utlizing it more fun.

And of course these two issues are linked. You can't really design the game world around flying because all flying is in WoW is the ability ot ignore gravity when not in combat. If it required some level of skill, or could not be used with great accuracy then you could have gameplay around it, instead of now when flying is the point where gameplay simply stops.

But this makes no sense at all because that's not the intention to begin with. You're essentially asking that they create an entirely new mechanic that has nothing to do with what WoW is, the gameplay that people enjoy, or anything to do with the general way the game is played. WoW has never been particularly movement-focused, it has a very specific way of being played, and has a set of certain mechanics that make it enjoyable. I see no way that an overhaul of flying could be even remotely entertaining.

[Sondrelk]

But it wouldn't be better for the game, it would make it way worse. If I want to play jump and run and glide games, I can play something else, thanks.

So if a mechanic in the game is actuvely detrimental to another part then that is just fine?

I know that is is quite in fashion ot hate on outdoor content in WoW, but some players like it and want it to succeed, and in that regard letting players that don't care and want to skip it and treat the game like a lobby game doesnt really seem like the best idea.

Overworld content has a perfectly solid base trifecta of walking, ground mount and flight paths for movement. And flying is one that takes the benefits of all three with no real downside.
It's absurd, no other part of the game would let such blatant disregard for gameplay balancing fly. Which is what makes the fact that flying is so aggressively boring as a mechanic doubly baffling. If it at least took a minimum level of skill and not just aiming at your destination and hitting autorun that would be one thing, but it really isnt.
Flying as it works on the game currently is essentially Blizzard capitulating and sacrificing the overworld they created to players that proudly admit to not caring for it, like proudly declaring your intent of pleasing everyone by throwing a lamborghini in a trash compactor to appease cyclists.

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But this makes no sense at all because that's not the intention to begin with. You're essentially asking that they create an entirely new mechanic that has nothing to do with what WoW is, the gameplay that people enjoy, or anything to do with the general way the game is played. WoW has never been particularly movement-focused, it has a very specific way of being played, and has a set of certain mechanics that make it enjoyable. I see no way that an overhaul of flying could be even remotely entertaining.

What gameplay? The ability to move unhindered from Point A to point B in a striahgt line. Or the gameplay that requires players to have some level of mechanics awareness and offers various means of traversing the landscape, because flying only appeases one.

And WoW used to be intensely movement focused. Back in Vanilla the lack of a flying mount meant that the game asking you to travel somewhere required knowledge of game mechanics on at least a rudimentry level, enough so to know how to either run around or through trash packs, as well as how to move across zones.
This is a style of gameplay that only really returned once Flying stopped being given to players at the very start of an expansion, and I know several that adore how this actually gave Blizzard space to design new and more fun movement options like Aviana's feather in WoD and Emerald Wings in Legion.

There is no gameplay to flying. It simply gives the player the ability to skip all the small component bits that make a game world feel more alive.

The only people that honestly want flying are those that either confess to not wanting to play the World of Warcraft, or want the game to be a lobby game for raids of PvP. I have yet to meet someone who wants overworld content and actually thinks flying improves or adds anything to it at all.