Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

We're not talking about Patch content. We're talking about the Jailer & Sylvanas' story arc: The content of the book the writer started over 2 years ago.

I mean, I, the only person who evidently matters here, am indeed talking about patch content. I'm talking about what they themselves said about 9.1...which is patch content. The fact that nothing about the story itself was finalized in regards to the finale cinematic of Sanctum of Domination at that time indicates that nothing else was either. Which means it was a conscious decision by the current writers to take that story direction. The Sylvanas book being written in 2020 doesn't mean that the entire manuscript or individual story details in the last chunk were finalized, especially since so much of it is contingent on flashbacks from far before SL or adaptations of actual game events that Golden can write without that knowledge.

On the topic of Sanctum and its finale:

We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update. But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.

When they say "this year," this was in 2021.

It's possible Ion, the one delivering the quote, is wrong, but he also said 9.1 is the first time that development was done entirely from home, and in June 2020 development was still underway on launch content.

The simple fact is that there's clear signs of pivoting and they're at best just as bad and in some ways worse.

If Afrasiabi planned the entire story from 2020 (lol) and laid it out and they changed nothing, they're all hacks.

If they planned some of this on the fly to undo the damage from BFA and turning her into a villain caricature, but still bungled it this hard, they're all hacks.

If Afrasiabi planned to have her become a villain caricature but also made this story that suspiciously seems like a redemption arc that Danuser would write...well, he seems to have fucking Dissociative Identity Disorder then, but needless to say that he and the current team remain hacks.

There is no reality or theoretical situation here where the current people still employed leave without the presence of SOME egg on their face.

[Revamp Man]

Do you think Afrasiasbi was planning on being fired for sexual harassment?

This is the first point in history WoW only has one game director. Ion. Traditionally one of the Game Directors takes charge of the story but they've all vanished suddenly after this scandal. Danuser didn't get promoted, yet he's suddenly in charge of the story? For all these reasons its very clear this was Afrasiasbi's baby. Especially since based on Danuser's comments he's looking forward to wiping the slate clean & starting fresh with a new story next expansion. Much like how a new showrunner on a TV show doesn't want to continue the previous' writers story threads.
We're not talking about Patch content. We're talking about the Jailer & Sylvanas' story arc: The content of the book the writer started over 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure she's got to know the plan.

so you want us to believe that overnight they kicked cosby jr and redid the story team structure

and again im not singling danuser out because they all suck

[Sharby]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.



Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

[delphiskye]

Hey been on ptr last night is this new in silermoon? the blood elf priest mind controlling the two trying to warn that the city is in danger and Magisters are bad guys to the crowd. After he mcs them they start saying magic's great

[Holdodlig]

Hey been on ptr last night is this new in silermoon? the blood elf priest mind controlling the two trying to warn that the city is in danger and Magisters are bad guys to the crowd. After he mcs them they start saying magic's great

Been here since BC. Back then, Belves were shown as totalitarian who enslaves by any mean necessary their opponent. You can also find gnomes in a tailoring shop's cave.

[Syegfryed]

Tbh it was missing a class. That would have probably been enough to please most people.

just like WoD missed the train to give us ogres and another race for the alliance, shadowlands also failed in giving us necromancers

fucking missed opportunities both expansions, both ruined and cut short, both dimensional travel bs

- - - Updated - - -

Good news: The people who wrote this story were all fired for sexual harassment.

Everyone's pinning this on Danuser but he was only in charge of worldbuilding until 7 months into Shadowlands when Afrasiabi was fired, as in, after the plot is already set in stone, assuming the voice actors take on what happened is to be trusted.

are going to keep spreading this falsehood? afrasiabi was no longer in control of the story after BfA lauched, Danuser was in charge of shadowlands, he change this awful story and give us more sylvanas than any living being can swallow.

[ExiHext]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.



Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

I guess they will only work in SL content...as far as I remember Door of Shadows is used for some puzzles in Revendreth (might misremember) and the kyrian steward is used in at least one dungeon to get a buff. Don't know about the other covenants. They will likely not be usable in other content for the reasons you mentioned.

[Lahis]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.

Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

We are not keeping any of them.

And Soulshapes aren't that much work. Just take a random animal model and apply the transparent ghost effect on them.

[Kiria]

The attempts to make Sylvanas seem less like a genocidal maniac and more like some tragic victim just come off as weak and pathetic. I actually prefer the genocidal maniac.

Her character needs to be put on ice for a long time.

I'm glad her story has been fleshed out more and I would be perfectly happy to see her attend more future expansions.

[Sondrelk]

We are not keeping any of them.

And Soulshapes aren't that much work. Just take a random animal model and apply the transparent ghost effect on them.

The soulshapes are unique in how much effort you put into gathering all of them though. Seems like a waste to relegate all that effort to the bin.

The actual movement speed buff might be on the chopping block, but I would be quite annoyed if we don't at least get a toy that can be used in rested areas to show off your soulshapes.

[Lahis]

The soulshapes are unique in how much effort you put into gathering all of them though. Seems like a waste to relegate all that effort to the bin.

The actual movement speed buff might be on the chopping block, but I would be quite annoyed if we don't at least get a toy that can be used in rested areas to show off your soulshapes.

Collecting Essences was also pain in the ass, but we won't ever be seeing them again, despite the max rank even having unique spell effects.

[Cosmic Janitor]

That is, a very future expansion. 15.0. Or.. better 20.0. When she is done farming souls in the maw for redemption. Danuser calls it "Punishment". The devs called it "fun gameplay". Seems Danuser was right.

I can't help but smile at all the (unintended) meta commentary in SL's story..

[Fahrad Wagner]

I can't help but smile at all the (unintended) meta commentary in SL's story..

It really says a lot doesn't it? So much dissonance within that team... it's crazy. I really feel sometimes they forget this is supposed to be a game.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It really says a lot doesn't it? So much dissonance within that team... it's crazy. I really feel sometimes they forget this is supposed to be a game.

To be fair, half the stuff you see from the regular dev team is just ass-covering and PR nonsense anyway. Even then they themselves admitted rather early (still too late) that the maw wasn't very fun and the idea of going for something oppressive as a gameplay choice didn't work out, even if it makes sense from a narrative PoV. I think the biggest dissonance here is mostly with the type of player that WoW has acquired and the established meta gameplay that permeates the endgame structure of WoW. There is also something to be said about the narrative tools in WoW simply not being developed enough to make a hell level/dream/episode work. This can work in a game like Max Payne, Farcry 3/4, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice or Catherine, not in a game like WoW where you are always on the clock and the moment you load in you stand there in your pink slutmog cleaving worldbosses in twain ticking your daily grind boxes.

Edit: Btw, I finally listend to the Kadghar sound file and I already dread where this shit is going. Either he will be yet again another fucking dreadlord, which was grating in Korthia and has since exponentially become more aggravating, or they plan to kill him off to replace him with their new rubbish characters that no one cares about, even if they have to force a complete 180 on his established personality.

The Sylvanas punishment was something I and others (you are welcome Blizzard) predicted/proposed long before and it was the only way to salvage this without killing her off or handwaving her crimes. Therefore I'm not surprised they went with that. That they drag this out until the 9.2.5 patch though...

[Iain]

Cool. My overall point is that people pining for a revamp seem to forget that Cataclysm also had 7 new zones, and 2 new zones for the two new races. In other words, if we do get a revamp, we’re still getting a new continent/landmass.

Personally, I’m Team Steamscale; The Undermine/Dragon Isle expansion.

Maybe I’ll make a fancy signature tag like everyone else…..

I'd be disappointed if the Undermine didn't end up being an expansion's capital, instance and battleground all in one at some point.

[Lahis]

Edit: Btw, I finally listend to the Kadghar sound file and I already dread where this shit is going. Either he will be yet again another fucking dreadlord, which was grating in Korthia and has since exponentially become more aggravating, or they plan to kill him off to replace him with their new rubbish characters that no one cares about, even if they have to force a complete 180 on his established personality.

Time to bring back Me'dan!

[Catastrophy349]

To be fair, half the stuff you see from the regular dev team is just ass-covering and PR nonsense anyway. Even then they themselves admitted rather early (still too late) that the maw wasn't very fun and the idea of going for something oppressive as a gameplay choice didn't work out, even if it makes sense from a narrative PoV. I think the biggest dissonance here is mostly with the type of player that WoW has acquired and the established meta gameplay that permeates the endgame structure of WoW. There is also something to be said about the narrative tools in WoW simply not being developed enough to make a hell level/dream/episode work. This can work in a game like Max Payne, Farcry 3/4, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice or Catherine, not in a game like WoW where you are always on the clock and the moment you load in you stand there in your pink slutmog cleaving worldbosses in twain ticking your daily grind boxes.

Edit: Btw, I finally listend to the Kadghar sound file and I already dread where this shit is going. Either he will be yet again another fucking dreadlord, which was grating in Korthia and has since exponentially become more aggravating, or they plan to kill him off to replace him with their new rubbish characters that no one cares about, even if they have to force a complete 180 on his established personality.

The Sylvanas punishment was something I and others (you are welcome Blizzard) predicted/proposed long before and it was the only way to salvage this without killing her off or handwaving her crimes. Therefore I'm not surprised they went with that. That they drag this out until the 9.2.5 patch though...

What are they dragging out until the 9.2.5 patch? Sylvanas' judgement is coming on Tuesday, March 29, 2022. I imagine you are referring to Khadgar.

[Teriz]

Here are the plot points of 10.0.

Gallywix uses the tech he gets from Tazavesh after his deal with the brokers as a means to get a pardon of his war crimes so that mother can use it to find the dragon isles with the help of the Tinkers Union. This is how we get tinkers.

That actually makes sense. We did see Gallywix negotiating with the Brokers in 9.1, so that is a plausible scenario.

I do think overall that Undermine is used is some capacity to locate the Dragon Isles. My guess would be that the isles are in some sort of time bubble and without the help of the Bronze Dragonflight or Kirin Tor, Wrathion goes to Undermine to get assistance from the Tinker's Union (perhaps Hobart Gapplehammer).

Within that premise, I can see Gallywix becoming a major antagonist. I still think Gallywix attacking Stormwind in a huge Godzilla-sized mech is still on the table. I don't see him as the final boss, but I do think he's going to be the final boss of a raid.

I also think we should finally see Gnomeregan retaken by the Gnomes and be a zone that players can actually visit like Ironforge or Stormwind. I would also connect Gnomeregan with Stormwind, Ironforge, Shadowforge, and Mechagon via a tram system. Undermine should connect to Gadgetzhan, Booty Bay, Rachet, a rebuilt Bilgewater Port (obviously), Plunder Isle, Orgrimmar, and maybe even Gnomeregan. And yeah, with Gadgetzhan's proximity to the Caverns of Time and it being a major Goblin land holding, I can see that location be a major part of the expansion as well. However, you're going to have to make it Hearthstone-sized;



And btw, if anything thinks that WoW doesn't incorporate stuff from Hearthstone, Blizzard incorporated Sir Finley Mrgglton and gave Hobart Grapplehammer his HS appearance.

Beyond the Goblin/Gnome stuff, I do agree that Void Dragons will be another antagonistic force, and I believe that they will be looking for the Dragon Isles as well, or have already found them. I don't agree that it would be Sinestra he leads them though, I believe it will either be a descendant of Vexonia, or Xal'natath.

They're going to need something major related to or on the Dragon Isles to have everyone chasing after it like this. You know, the standard Macguffin that gets the plot going. Overall, I do think that such an expansion would be a nice change of pace from Shadowlands.

Back on EK. Anduin has returned but isn't fit to rule as per his trauma. Turqlyon keep the thrown for now, yet he is pressured by the nobles to take back lorederon.

Calia and the forsaken rebuild lorederon. This will be the faction conflict. Turalyon pressured by the storm wind nobles to expand. Now that sylv is gone. Scarlet crusade joins in an uneasy alliance.

Now this is the part I don't agree with. I do think the Scarlet Brotherhood will attack the new Undead under Callia, but I also believe that Turalyon will help defend them because Callia is Lightforged. I do agree with you that Anduin will be sidelined as he cares for his mental health after the events in Shadowlands. I also think that Gilneas will be returned to the Worgen, and we'll actually be able to venture there. Places like Southshore, Stratholme, Andorhol, and the Western/Eastern Plaguelands should be fully restored at this point.

#Team Steamscale.

[Catastrophy349]

That actually makes sense. We did see Gallywix negotiating with the Brokers in 9.1, so that is a plausible scenario.

I do think overall that Undermine is used is some capacity to locate the Dragon Isles. My guess would be that the isles are in some sort of time bubble and without the help of the Bronze Dragonflight or Kirin Tor, Wrathion goes to Undermine to get assistance from the Tinker's Union (perhaps Hobart Gapplehammer).

Within that premise, I can see Gallywix becoming a major antagonist. I still think Gallywix attacking Stormwind in a huge Godzilla-sized mech is still on the table. I don't see him as the final boss, but I do think he's going to be the final boss of a raid.

I also think we should finally see Gnomeregan retaken by the Gnomes and be a zone that players can actually visit like Ironforge or Stormwind. I would also connect Gnomeregan with Stormwind, Ironforge, Shadowforge, and Mechagon via a tram system. Undermine should connect to Gadgetzhan, Booty Bay, Rachet, a rebuilt Bilgewater Port (obviously), Plunder Isle, Orgrimmar, and maybe even Gnomeregan. And yeah, with Gadgetzhan's proximity to the Caverns of Time and it being a major Goblin land holding, I can see that location be a major part of the expansion as well. However, you're going to have to make it Hearthstone-sized;



And btw, if anything thinks that WoW doesn't incorporate stuff from Hearthstone, Blizzard incorporated Sir Finley Mrgglton and gave Hobart Grapplehammer his HS appearance.

Beyond the Goblin/Gnome stuff, I do agree that Void Dragons will be another antagonistic force, and I believe that they will be looking for the Dragon Isles as well, or have already found them. I don't agree that it would be Sinestra he leads them though, I believe it will either be a descendant of Vexonia, or Xal'natath.

They're going to need something major related to or on the Dragon Isles to have everyone chasing after it like this. You know, the standard Macguffin that gets the plot going. Overall, I do think that such an expansion would be a nice change of pace from Shadowlands.



Now this is the part I don't agree with. I do think the Scarlet Brotherhood will attack the new Undead under Callia, but I also believe that Turalyon will help defend them because Callia is Lightbound. I do agree with you that Anduin will be sidelined as he cares for his mental health after the events in Shadowlands. I also think that Gilneas will be returned to the Worgen, and we'll actually be able to venture there. Places like Southshore, Stratholme, Andorhol, and the Western/Eastern Plaguelands should be fully restored at this point.

#Team Steamscale.

Credit where credit is due. You are committed to the very end!

[Teriz]

I'd be disappointed if the Undermine didn't end up being an expansion's capital, instance and battleground all in one at some point.

I agree. Undermine is the last potential continent remaining from Vanilla and the RPG.

Credit where credit is due. You are committed to the very end!

Meh, I'm just going by what the evidence points towards, and what I'd like to see based on that evidence. I could be spectacularly wrong, and that's okay.