Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Syegfryed]

Spoiler alert!!!!

User Kazzus at Reddit got an early copy of Sylvanas https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor..._sylvanas_ama/

- The jailer showed Sylvanas afterlives where families were separated from their beloved ones because they didn't deserve the same afterlife.
- Sylvanas remembered her little brother when she saw Anduin. Little lion is reminiscent of Little sun.
- Nerzhul tried to dominate Arthas but Arthas won.
- The Jailer predicted some events to convince Sylvanas that he was on the winning side. Once Sargeras's sword landed on Silithus, Sylvanas joined the Jailer team.
- The Helya and Eyir deal was getting souls from the Hall of Valors and empower the Jailer.
- When Saurfang asked for the duel, Nathanos suggested Sylvanas to run and forget this crazy Jailer plan.

Imagine something needed to wait 5+ years to be know, in a shit throwaway book. miraculous.

But it is what i expected at about the rest, awful tentative to fix a mess, croocked and conflicted story.

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If this ends up being the thing that caused her shift and not the potential of endless torment, my sides will be sent to the Maw.

What did you expect? they need to make her feel story, and the reads feel sorry about her, so they can say she was a "compelling and nuanced character", despite throwing this shit up for the first time ever.

she knew goddamn right, all the time, she was not going to be with her family, she was going to the maw, and her goal was not to die, committing genocide, countless of pain to feed souls to the same doomed place she was going to go, just that she can be with her family? is she mental now? fucking Danuser

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So when Sylvanas said "the deal is struck" after Edge of Night.....what she actually meant was "The deal is (not) struck" at least until she sees that everything the Jailer prophesized comes true

...which is coincidently the same way N'zoth convinces people to join him. Whispers.

Though the idea that the Jailer could be sure Sargeras would lose & also stab the planet is..... pretty ridiculous.

first retcon of the book? yep

[KainneAbsolute]

Just remember I didn't read the book, I am just paraphrasing the Reddit thread. Feel free to check for more details

Kazzus: " I forget the order but the jist of it was the legion will come back, you will "step out of the shaodows and lead," a sword will pierce the heart of the world, you will hold the blood of the world and realize it's power, then she will shatter the roof of the world.

At the meeting in Dalaran before Legion she realizes the first has happened and she's on the lookout for the rest. She doesn't actually officially accept the Jailer's deal until after the sword hits Azeroth and she sees azerite."

[Gurahk]

They really hid 50% of the expansion in a fucking book released AFTER the expansion's story ended.
Lmao

[Vakir]

Yeah, those predictions are so wildly specific and would as an outsider be seen as external to the Jailer's actual control that it's absolutely hysterical she'd buy into it.

Can we shut up about justifying the current team by way of Afrasiabi being a despicable shithole and possibly a narrative saboteur? This is almost worse.

[guro-tchai]

she knew goddamn right, all the time, she was not going to be with her family, she was going to the maw, and her goal was not to die, committing genocide, countless of pain to feed souls to the same doomed place she was going to go, just that she can be with her family? is she mental now? fucking Danuser

eh, it's not just about her, it's about everyone. she was shown that everyone gets separated forever. and tbh her wanting to change it makes sense.
i remember encountering two npcs in Ardenweald - Ferryn, Delaryn's bf, who was killed by Saurfang in the pre-BfA story; and Heralath, who was killed in Razorfen Kraul back in Classic, and who asked to deliver his pendant to his wife in Darnassus. both of them in Ardenweald talk only about their loved ones. knowing that the first one was broken and turned into a dark ranger on Azeroth and the second might be in the Maw is sad, but the fact that they might never be reunited is even worse.
fun thing is, this Sylvanas won. family reunions probably weren't important to the arbiter #1 and were not taken into account by the arbiter #2. arbiter #3 is all about compassion, so problem solved.

[Ersula]

They really hid 50% of the expansion in a fucking book released AFTER the expansion's story ended.
Lmao

It does remind me of Doctor Who's worst major arc (6 of the new series) they gave the Eye-patch lady a really good motive & backstory in Time of the Doctor....2 years after her character died. It's a writing idea that works conceptually but isn't very enjoyable to watch.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They really hid 50% of the expansion in a fucking book released AFTER the expansion's story ended.
Lmao

Well technically it didn't end yet, they kinda half-assed it and only gave us 7 chapters when the story clearly needs another one (and 8 being the usual number). After that insane mid-expansion draught they actually didn't even manage to finish the terrible story.. instead they ended on the part about wholagos becoming arbiter.. /shrug

[Syegfryed]

[spoiler]eh, it's not just about her, it's about everyone. she was shown that everyone gets separated forever. and tbh her wanting to change it makes sense.

Sylvanas never gave two flying fucks about everyone else by herself. Other people situation means nothing to her.

i remember encountering two npcs in Ardenweald - Ferryn, Delaryn's bf, who was killed by Saurfang in the pre-BfA story; and Heralath, who was killed in Razorfen Kraul back in Classic, and who asked to deliver his pendant to his wife in Darnassus. both of them in Ardenweald talk only about their loved ones. knowing that the first one was broken and turned into a dark ranger on Azeroth and the second might be in the Maw is sad, but the fact that they might never be reunited is even worse.

It is even more bs to believe she care about this when she was the responsible for most of those families being separated, yet, she went for this route trying to change the very thing she is doing, dumb hoping the janitor would simple release the souls he was using as fuel

This is trash tier writing considering her character before shadowlands and past events, which is why bear the problem of all this, maybe if Legion and BfA didn't happened, and they didn't had butchered shadowlands from the start this storyline could have worked., this is as bas if they had mede her playing the 45d chess all along.

Instead of going full villain route, which would make much more sense with her and what she did so far, they attempt to give reasons, nuances of something who clearly wasn't there and no one will swallow willingly.

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Just remember I didn't read the book, I am just paraphrasing the Reddit thread. Feel free to check for more details

which ebars the questions, HOW THE FUCK the janitor would possible predict Sargeras was going to finger the planet with the sword? it was not even his goal, it was a last ditch effort after the mortals made the impossible and the titans trap him, LIKE how, does he also see the future? everyone does, and he could not predict he was going to lose in the end?

[TheFirstOnes]

I think y'all need a break from the Lightbound or anything Cosmic for the moment. Besides, we've got like 5 more Zereth's and Cosmic Planes to truly go through...

We're not done yet. Calm down my dudes. We also still gotta have our lil bully session with Sargeras as the victim

[guro-tchai]

Sylvanas never gave two flying fucks about everyone else by herself. Other people situation means nothing to her.
This is trash tier writing considering her character before shadowlands and past events, which is why bear the problem of all this, maybe if Legion and BfA didn't happened, and they didn't had butchered shadowlands from the start this storyline could have worked., this is as bas if they had mede her playing the 45d chess all along.
Instead of going full villain route, which would make much more sense with her and what she did so far, they attempt to give reasons, nuances of something who clearly wasn't there and no one will swallow willingly.

the writers say she was working for the common good, then she was working for the common good.
yes, they seemingly can't imagine a character that was scheming for their own interests and not for the universe at large. k, Denathrius/Azshara (but hey, give them some time!). you don't have to like it - i don't.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The whole seperation anxiety rings a bit hollow anyway. Let's be real here for a moment and look past the teen angst writing of eternal love, the overwhelming majority of people can barely even stay together with another person for 2 decades to raise kids these days, since the external social pressure is gone. Alot of people throughout history have managed to have multiple spouses because one part of the couple died and the other remarried or at least was in a relationship (insert Ned Flanders meme here).

Now add the fact that the mortal live is but a tiny flicker compared to the aeons you can reach in the shadowlands. Basing the sorting descison on the need of the individual soul seems to me just the utalitarian choice to prevent constant resorting based on the whims of the souls which would stack up more and more as time goes on. It's a logistical descison that just makes sense, as other stories have realized as well. In Supernatural heaven is(was?) just a greatest hits compilation playing in a blissful loop, because the alternative would have to be on the level of Dante Alighieri where all the good souls just get brainwashed to sing god's praises all the time (that is practically the troll afterlife).

Apropos troll afterlife, if a culture is strong enough or desperately needs it, it seems to me that it's possible to have a different type of afterlife in the system already. I mean even the fucking trolls of Azeroth managed, blame high elf culture being weak, not the system .

[Revamp Man]

Just remember I didn't read the book, I am just paraphrasing the Reddit thread. Feel free to check for more details

Kazzus: " I forget the order but the jist of it was the legion will come back, you will "step out of the shaodows and lead," a sword will pierce the heart of the world, you will hold the blood of the world and realize it's power, then she will shatter the roof of the world.

At the meeting in Dalaran before Legion she realizes the first has happened and she's on the lookout for the rest. She doesn't actually officially accept the Jailer's deal until after the sword hits Azeroth and she sees azerite."

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

oh god someone mentioned doctor Who and it reminds me of when River realized it was the first time the doctor met her so she was prepared to die...but without any meaning later on.

i am so ready for the writing team to just cycle out

[Chickat]

There was no "fist pump" moment. New zones... new dungeons... new grinds... I kept waiting for that capstone announcement. It was so anticlimactic.

Tbh it was missing a class. That would have probably been enough to please most people.

[Ersula]

i am so ready for the writing team to just cycle out

Good news: The people who wrote this story were all fired for sexual harassment.

Everyone's pinning this on Danuser but he was only in charge of worldbuilding until 7 months into Shadowlands when Afrasiabi was fired, as in, after the plot is already set in stone, assuming the voice actors take on what happened is to be trusted.

[Vakir]

Good news: The people who wrote this story were all fired for sexual harassment.

Everyone's pinning this on Danuser but he was only in charge of worldbuilding until 7 months into Shadowlands when Afrasiabi was fired, as in, after the plot is already set in stone, assuming the voice actors take on what happened is to be trusted.

They've literally said in interviews that the exact lines and progression of events at the end of 9.1, let alone everything after, was decided over the course of the pandemic.

This can't keep being an excuse. They're all hacks. But you know this. You're not being sincere.

[Revamp Man]

Good news: The people who wrote this story were all fired for sexual harassment.

Everyone's pinning this on Danuser but he was only in charge of worldbuilding until 7 months into Shadowlands when Afrasiabi was fired, as in, after the plot is already set in stone, assuming the voice actors take on what happened is to be trusted.

so your saying hes the reason we get "i did it for the greater good" which is a big fuck you and turn around in her character
or do you really believe that they werent transitioning to allow steve to be in charge??

also i didnt say it was Danuser that i wanted out because its all of the writers and the system team members that cried when players pointed out their system sucked and the ones who said "the restrictions helped you experience shadowlands"

[Varx]

Here are the plot points of 10.0.

Gallywix uses the tech he gets from Tazavesh after his deal with the brokers as a means to get a pardon of his war crimes so that mother can use it to find the dragon isles with the help of the Tinkers Union. This is how we get tinkers.

The void will attack the dragon isles, lead by sinestra. The dragon isles are the origin of life on azeroth.

Gallywix will be a boss down the exp cycle after exploiting the isles.

Back on EK. Anduin has returned but isn't fit to rule as per his trauma. Turqlyon keep the thrown for now, yet he is pressured by the nobles to take back lorederon.

Calia and the forsaken rebuild lorederon. This will be the faction conflict. Turalyon pressured by the storm wind nobles to expand. Now that sylv is gone. Scarlet crusade joins in an uneasy alliance.

So there you go...

Dragons, tinkers, Gallywix, calia vs turalyonn, void vs life.

[Vakir]

Afrasiabi was fired in June 2020. Well enough into development, but not 7 months after Shadowlands launched, and certainly not enough to have had a direct impact on poor writing choices they themselves made on the fly.

You also can't say someone is a toxic saboteur trying to destroy a character out of spite towards Kosack's Garrosh writing, which is the narrative posed by those same VAs, while also saying they're responsible for writing that consistently rewards and softens that same character. It's incompatible.

Delusions are delusions.

EDIT: I hope Tinkers happen so I never need to see threadshitting about them ever again.

[Ersula]

Afrasiabi was fired in June 2020. Well enough into development, but not 7 months after Shadowlands launched

I didn't say 7 months after shadowlands launched: I said 7 months into Shadowlands development, aka June 2020. They've said repeatedly they start work on the next expansion the day the previous expansion is released. 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 etc is the result of two years of work.

They've literally said in interviews that the exact lines and progression of events at the end of 9.1, let alone everything after, was decided over the course of the pandemic.

This can't keep being an excuse. They're all hacks. But you know this. You're not being sincere.

You're not being sincere. The cinematics take 6+ months plus. Zereth Mortis could have been created wholesale during 9.1, but the outline of the plot, the order of events is way more particular and would have been set in stone when Golden started the Sylvanas book back in 2020. Notice how everyone in the voice acting says the "Sepulcher" a term first introduced in 9.1 but nothing specific about Zareth Mortis.

[Sugani]

Here are the plot points of 10.0.

Gallywix uses the tech he gets from Tazavesh after his deal with the brokers as a means to get a pardon of his war crimes so that mother can use it to find the dragon isles with the help of the Tinkers Union. This is how we get tinkers.

The void will attack the dragon isles, lead by sinestra. The dragon isles are the origin of life on azeroth.

Gallywix will be a boss down the exp cycle after exploiting the isles.

Back on EK. Anduin has returned but isn't fit to rule as per his trauma. Turqlyon keep the thrown for now, yet he is pressured by the nobles to take back lorederon.

Calia and the forsaken rebuild lorederon. This will be the faction conflict. Turalyon pressured by the storm wind nobles to expand. Now that sylv is gone. Scarlet crusade joins in an uneasy alliance.

So there you go...

Dragons, tinkers, Gallywix, calia vs turalyonn, void vs life.

This all sounds absolutely awful.