Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Kiivar86]

Well in Alpha/Beta Undermine was planned as a continent Southeast of Kalimdor. Kezan is an island, but Undermine is beneath it. The RPG also seems to suggest that Undermine is pretty huge. It being beneath the surface would allow Blizzard to stretch the limits of its size, since it can be placed beneath other landmasses.

Tel'abim on the other hand is an island.

It is though from what I'm looking at on wowpedia an island of similar size to Kezan itself at least.

WoW: Secrets of the Yellow Fruit
WoW: Age of Potassium
WoW: Exports of Tel'abim
WoW: Wrath of the Bananas

WoW: A-peel of Tel'Abim

[Teriz]

It is though from what I'm looking at on wowpedia an island of similar size to Kezan itself at least.

That's based on the RPG. In WoW it was planned to be a continent. It even says so in the Wowpedia article (Notes and Trivia);

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

BTW, the "save the date" map has plenty of space Southeast of Kalimdor;

[Graden]

I think these stats are a bit up to date;

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

Worgen rank 16....I knew that they are not really popular but they're still lower than I expected.

[Teriz]

Undermine would be boring.

Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

[AngerFork]

I think these stats are a bit up to date;

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

Thanks, this is definitely good to see. I'd been looking for something a bit more updated like this, but google kept giving me old stats that hadn't been updated since before COVID.

There's a lot to see in looking at this. The disparate numbers between Alliance & Horde really show here, as do the racial imbalances. This definitely doesn't disqualify what I said about Draenei as they are still the 4th most popular Alliance race, falling behind Void Elves (another traditionally pretty race). They are low overall, but you also have to remember that 7 of the bottom 8 races displayed here are Alliance races while 7 of the top 10 are Horde.

Okay, but then why are Nightborne so low population wise? I'm sure they have great looking transmogs.

It's hard to care about a transmog when the race doesn't line up to any available classes in the first place. Before a player even gets to transmog, they have to get some level of immersivity from the race/class they're playing.

Let's say you're playing a Goblin or Gnome in even the starter zone (Exile's Reach), and you see Draenei healing, Night Elves being Druids, Orcs being warriors, Pandaren being Monks, Dwarves being Hunters, etc. Then you run into the Goblin and Gnome NPCs, and they're using tech gadgets and doing cool stuff like building a flying machine, and using a ray gun to shrink/enlarge/explode a boar. Loving this, you run back to the character select screen to find a class that is doing what you saw those NPCs doing, and you simply won't find it. In disappointment, you roll a different race that better matches what you see the NPCs doing.

That's the problem.

But Nightborne do line up well with available classes, especially Mages. Their entire society for a while was built around Mana & the Nightwell, they were addicted to it until saved by the Arcandor. There are also plenty of examples where you have perfect racial fits for classes, yet the numbers are still low. Paladins & Lightforged Draenei, Warlocks & Dark Iron Dwarves, Highmountain Tauren & Shamans come to mind. Conversely, it's not like there's a great fit for the Vulpera & they are in the top 10 over the Pandaren who have a perfect class fit with Monks.

Immersivity is important, but that IMO is entirely why Nightborne is so low. The faces were so far off and weird looking from the Nightborne we knew that it was distracting & held back many potential Nightborne players. Had they shipped with proper faces, I have to wonder if we'd have more people playing them.

I don't disagree that Gnomes/Goblins don't have a great class fit, nor that adding the Tinker would do anything but increase their overall numbers. I'd likely go Mechagnome for mine. Moreso just that there's more to the story than just that IMO.

[Grimbold21]

Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

Because a city sized version of the Dalaran sewers isn't appealing.

People were/are asking for the game to go back to being grounded Azeroth, but I reckon not many wish that to mean the literal underground of the planet, unless of course it's the Nerubian empire, and even then, a continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

[Polybius]

Preorders have been a blight on the gaming industry. Preordering means telling the developers that you don't require them to meet any standard, as your money is already theirs.

A gaming audience that holds off on preordering will raise the bar and make gaming much more competitive by rewarding the games that actually deliver on launch.

I hope people remember this come April 19, no matter how good the presentation is.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

(A) continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

I disagree. With sufficient variety and a high enough ceiling, I could see Azjol-Nerub keeping me hooked for a year. It would have to be very creative and thorough, though.

[therumblings]

I hope people remember this come April 19, no matter how good the presentation is.

People always say they wont pre-order then they go ahead and pre-order, it's a lost cause at this point and people have been talking about this for years now.

[Varx]

Undermine would be boring.

A large underground goblin metropolis is boring to you? There's so much you can do with that. Imagine a large section that's an aquatic dome, streets winding around the city.

Like there is so much you can do...

Christ no wonder you constantly denounce tinkers.

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Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

Wait until they see it in-game, they eat their words.

[Grimbold21]

I disagree. With sufficient variety and a high enough ceiling, I could see Azjol-Nerub keeping me hooked for a year. It would have to be very creative and thorough, though.

Depends.

Would you say Deepholm was good enough?

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A large underground goblin metropolis is boring to you? There's so much you can do with that. Imagine a large section that's an aquatic dome, streets winding around the city.

Like there is so much you can do...

Christ no wonder you constantly denounce tinkers.

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Wait until they see it in-game, they eat their words.

A continental version of the Motherload with a touch of Dalaran sewers and Bilgewater in the mix? Yeah, that'd be annoying within a week. Then again, I have to be fair. It would go along with Blizzard's political tendencies to use Undermine to expose the dangers of unchecked capitalism, pollution, greed and whatever else.

[The Stormbringer]

I fully expect there to be something they claim is totally not borrowed power but functionally might as well be despite their assurances.

I remember, "Oh don't worry, we listened and we won't have Artifact/Azerite Power this time!"

Then came Anima Power.

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If they were to add player housing, it would be great to do it with a world revamp and then have an area or few in most zones where the player can build their phased house. We all know that WoW housing if implemented will be instanced or phased.

But I still prefer the idea of a guild Hall over player housing

Especially since you could create a guild and then be the only member, thus making it your "house".

[Calfredd]

A large underground goblin metropolis is boring to you? There's so much you can do with that. Imagine a large section that's an aquatic dome, streets winding around the city.

Like there is so much you can do...

Christ no wonder you constantly denounce tinkers.

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Wait until they see it in-game, they eat their words.

That a lot of arrogance for someone who kept saying that tinkers were coming "next expansion" for the last few expansions. Even Teriz shut up for a while when they announced Demon Hunters despite his assurance that they would never be added.

[Iain]

Because a city sized version of the Dalaran sewers isn't appealing.

People were/are asking for the game to go back to being grounded Azeroth, but I reckon not many wish that to mean the literal underground of the planet, unless of course it's the Nerubian empire, and even then, a continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

For Undermine I was more thinking along the lines of Shipwreck Cove.

[AngerFork]

People always say they wont pre-order then they go ahead and pre-order, it's a lost cause at this point and people have been talking about this for years now.

Exactly. Pre-orders are here to stay for better or worse, it's increasingly rare for a game not to get significant pre-orders even when most of the gaming community tends to hate pre-orders on principle. It's especially prevalent with something like WoW where that bonus isn't just the money for the expansion, but a likely expectation of at least one month of purchased sub time as well.

I do still think the pre-order numbers will be a bit down for 10.0 unless Blizz gives some sort of interesting carrot for pre-orders, at least something more interesting than Allied Race DKs. But there will still be a lot of pre-orders based more on hope than on current content.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Depends.

Would you say Deepholm was good enough?

It couldn't carry an expansion, but that also isn't the only thing you can do underground. There's far more in the way of zones than "empty cave".

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A continental version of the Motherload with a touch of Dalaran sewers and Bilgewater in the mix? Yeah, that'd be annoying within a week. Then again, I have to be fair. It would go along with Blizzard's political tendencies to use Undermine to expose the dangers of unchecked capitalism, pollution, greed and whatever else.

Why would a large, highly exploitative corporation focus on that if they just got done with an expansion in the wake of sexual harassment lawsuits where the primary, underlying message is "victims should not seek justice"?

[Varx]

That a lot of arrogance for someone who kept saying that tinkers were coming "next expansion" for the last few expansions. Even Teriz shut up for a while when they announced Demon Hunters despite his assurance that they would never be added.

I never said tinkers we're coming with 100% certainty before SL. Who are you talking about...

If anything I was sure we would have gotten DRs in SL or even necros, as redundant as they are to DKs.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Lately I've been imagining a Green-Flight/Emerald Dream zone that would be like a Wailing Caverns/Maraudon on the scale of Deepholm. Huge open ceilings with glittering life magics, glowmosses and such.

Since Val'sharah is a near mirror of the Dream in terms of overworld forest, a subterranean paradise like that could be really neat to explore next. Thinking like the druid's Barrow Dens even, in terms of lore/theme- not the cramped tunnels lol

[Kiria]

A large underground goblin metropolis is boring to you? There's so much you can do with that. Imagine a large section that's an aquatic dome, streets winding around the city.

Like there is so much you can do...

Christ no wonder you constantly denounce tinkers.

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Wait until they see it in-game, they eat their words.

Yes boring I don't find anything gnome or gobbo related interesting at all and I won't eat my words because I simply won't buy into it..

Give me more elven architecture and lore and I'll eat that up.

[Grimbold21]

It couldn't carry an expansion, but that also isn't the only thing you can do underground. There's far more in the way of zones than "empty cave".

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Why would a large, highly exploitative corporation focus on that if they just got done with an expansion in the wake of sexual harassment lawsuits where the primary, underlying message is "victims should not seek justice"?

For the same reason that any other exploitative corporation does it. To score points and perpetuate the unspoken agreement that the vast majority of consumers abide by, that is to say, the consumers know the company is hypocritical but can't help but to continue to consume its products.

As for the matter of "underground", I reserve a healthy dose of skepticism regarding player reception of such type of content. I'd personally expect it to be received somewhat close to the level that an underwater zone would be.

Then again, personally speaking, if you gave me an expansion with a heavy dwarven theme, i'd be all up for it. Litter the continent with Ironforges and Grim Batols and I'm down.