Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Kiria]

I have long believed that part of the reason the Goblin and Gnome population is so low is because of a lack of applicable class options.

Frankly, it can explain the relatively low Nightborne population numbers as well. Nightborne have been shown to utilize an arcane style of technology that simply can’t be emulated in the class lineup.

Draenei as whole also have low numbers and I believe it’s for similar reasons. However, Paladin and (alliance) Shaman access helps their numbers a bit.

I do believe that a future tech class should have an Artificer (magitech) component.

No... Don't assume the narrative is because lack of class, the fact is armour that people earn looks horrendous on midget races hence their lack of popularity.

You can give poop new accessories but at the end of the day it's still poop.

[username993720]

Given the prominence of Sylvanas throughout that expansion, Dark Ranger would have made the most sense. Them not bringing out DRs, and giving Sylvanas' bow and quiver exclusively to Hunters was very surprising, and perhaps an indication of their general view of the class.

Or, perhaps, a logical drop to a very specific raid encounter.

I agree. Undermine is the last potential continent remaining from Vanilla and the RPG.

It isn't.

[Teriz]

No... Don't assume the narrative is because lack of class, the fact is armour that people earn looks horrendous on midget races hence their lack of popularity.

You can give poop new accessories but at the end of the day it's still poop.

Then why is the Nightborne population so low? It's only 0.1% higher than Goblins.

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It isn't.

Oh? What would be the other one?

[AngerFork]

I have long believed that part of the reason the Goblin and Gnome population is so low is because of a lack of applicable class options.

Frankly, it can explain the relatively low Nightborne population numbers as well. Nightborne have been shown to utilize an arcane style of technology that simply can’t be emulated in the class lineup.

Draenei as whole also have low numbers and I believe it’s for similar reasons. However, Paladin and (alliance) Shaman access helps their numbers a bit.

I do believe that a future tech class should have an Artificer (magitech) component.

Perhaps, though I'd argue it has to do more with people wanting the more traditionally pretty models for transmog & the like. People have a tendency to like to show off either their earned gear or their transmog designs & they don't show up nearly as well on the smaller Gnome/Goblin frames as they do on a Human or a Blood Elf. In this respect as well, Blizz really did the Mechagnomes no favors by blocking off slots from transmog.

I do have to disagree with your take that Draenei are low numbers. According to statista, they were the 3rd most popular Alliance race in December 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/). Still not as popular as Humans & Night Elves, not even close...but popular enough.

If they were to add player housing, it would be great to do it with a world revamp and then have an area or few in most zones where the player can build their phased house. We all know that WoW housing if implemented will be instanced or phased.

But I still prefer the idea of a guild Hall over player housing

Definitely agree on how it would be set up. Doing it with a world revamp & having a dedicated area to an instance/phased house is probably the best way to introduce it to the world. Curious, why do you prefer guild halls to player housing? As someone who has had their fair share of guild issues over the years, I feel like guild halls would be a great way for me to never have a safe controllable living space.

[Raetary]

It's only 0.1% higher than Goblins.

Where exactly do you people get those numbers from?

[Kiivar86]

Don't know if it counts as a "continent" precisely (I wouldn't count Kezan as one either though), but Tel'abim.

[Raetary]

Don't know if it counts as a "continent" precisely, but Tel'abim.

WoW: Secrets of the Yellow Fruit
WoW: Age of Potassium
WoW: Exports of Tel'abim
WoW: Wrath of the Bananas

[Teriz]

Don't know if it counts as a "continent" precisely (I wouldn't count Kezan as one either though), but Tel'abim.

Well in Alpha/Beta Undermine was planned as a continent Southeast of Kalimdor. Kezan is an island, but Undermine is beneath it. The RPG also seems to suggest that Undermine is pretty huge. It being beneath the surface would allow Blizzard to stretch the limits of its size, since it can be placed beneath other landmasses.

Tel'abim on the other hand is an island.

[Kiria]

Undermine would be boring.

[Teriz]

Perhaps, though I'd argue it has to do more with people wanting the more traditionally pretty models for transmog & the like. People have a tendency to like to show off either their earned gear or their transmog designs & they don't show up nearly as well on the smaller Gnome/Goblin frames as they do on a Human or a Blood Elf. In this respect as well, Blizz really did the Mechagnomes no favors by blocking off slots from transmog.

Okay, but then why are Nightborne so low population wise? I'm sure they have great looking transmogs.

It's hard to care about a transmog when the race doesn't line up to any available classes in the first place. Before a player even gets to transmog, they have to get some level of immersivity from the race/class they're playing.

Let's say you're playing a Goblin or Gnome in even the starter zone (Exile's Reach), and you see Draenei healing, Night Elves being Druids, Orcs being warriors, Pandaren being Monks, Dwarves being Hunters, etc. Then you run into the Goblin and Gnome NPCs, and they're using tech gadgets and doing cool stuff like building a flying machine, and using a ray gun to shrink/enlarge/explode a boar. Loving this, you run back to the character select screen to find a class that is doing what you saw those NPCs doing, and you simply won't find it. In disappointment, you roll a different race that better matches what you see the NPCs doing.

That's the problem.

I do have to disagree with your take that Draenei are low numbers. According to statista, they were the 3rd most popular Alliance race in December 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/). Still not as popular as Humans & Night Elves, not even close...but popular enough.

I think these stats are a bit up to date;

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

[Kiivar86]

Well in Alpha/Beta Undermine was planned as a continent Southeast of Kalimdor. Kezan is an island, but Undermine is beneath it. The RPG also seems to suggest that Undermine is pretty huge. It being beneath the surface would allow Blizzard to stretch the limits of its size, since it can be placed beneath other landmasses.

Tel'abim on the other hand is an island.

It is though from what I'm looking at on wowpedia an island of similar size to Kezan itself at least.

WoW: Secrets of the Yellow Fruit
WoW: Age of Potassium
WoW: Exports of Tel'abim
WoW: Wrath of the Bananas

WoW: A-peel of Tel'Abim

[Teriz]

It is though from what I'm looking at on wowpedia an island of similar size to Kezan itself at least.

That's based on the RPG. In WoW it was planned to be a continent. It even says so in the Wowpedia article (Notes and Trivia);

Note that the Undermine was already concepted in the early World of Warcraft beta not as a city on an island, but as a continent southeast of Kalimdor.

BTW, the "save the date" map has plenty of space Southeast of Kalimdor;

[Graden]

I think these stats are a bit up to date;

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

Worgen rank 16....I knew that they are not really popular but they're still lower than I expected.

[Teriz]

Undermine would be boring.

Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

[AngerFork]

I think these stats are a bit up to date;

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

Thanks, this is definitely good to see. I'd been looking for something a bit more updated like this, but google kept giving me old stats that hadn't been updated since before COVID.

There's a lot to see in looking at this. The disparate numbers between Alliance & Horde really show here, as do the racial imbalances. This definitely doesn't disqualify what I said about Draenei as they are still the 4th most popular Alliance race, falling behind Void Elves (another traditionally pretty race). They are low overall, but you also have to remember that 7 of the bottom 8 races displayed here are Alliance races while 7 of the top 10 are Horde.

Okay, but then why are Nightborne so low population wise? I'm sure they have great looking transmogs.

It's hard to care about a transmog when the race doesn't line up to any available classes in the first place. Before a player even gets to transmog, they have to get some level of immersivity from the race/class they're playing.

Let's say you're playing a Goblin or Gnome in even the starter zone (Exile's Reach), and you see Draenei healing, Night Elves being Druids, Orcs being warriors, Pandaren being Monks, Dwarves being Hunters, etc. Then you run into the Goblin and Gnome NPCs, and they're using tech gadgets and doing cool stuff like building a flying machine, and using a ray gun to shrink/enlarge/explode a boar. Loving this, you run back to the character select screen to find a class that is doing what you saw those NPCs doing, and you simply won't find it. In disappointment, you roll a different race that better matches what you see the NPCs doing.

That's the problem.

But Nightborne do line up well with available classes, especially Mages. Their entire society for a while was built around Mana & the Nightwell, they were addicted to it until saved by the Arcandor. There are also plenty of examples where you have perfect racial fits for classes, yet the numbers are still low. Paladins & Lightforged Draenei, Warlocks & Dark Iron Dwarves, Highmountain Tauren & Shamans come to mind. Conversely, it's not like there's a great fit for the Vulpera & they are in the top 10 over the Pandaren who have a perfect class fit with Monks.

Immersivity is important, but that IMO is entirely why Nightborne is so low. The faces were so far off and weird looking from the Nightborne we knew that it was distracting & held back many potential Nightborne players. Had they shipped with proper faces, I have to wonder if we'd have more people playing them.

I don't disagree that Gnomes/Goblins don't have a great class fit, nor that adding the Tinker would do anything but increase their overall numbers. I'd likely go Mechagnome for mine. Moreso just that there's more to the story than just that IMO.

[Grimbold21]

Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

Because a city sized version of the Dalaran sewers isn't appealing.

People were/are asking for the game to go back to being grounded Azeroth, but I reckon not many wish that to mean the literal underground of the planet, unless of course it's the Nerubian empire, and even then, a continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

[Polybius]

Preorders have been a blight on the gaming industry. Preordering means telling the developers that you don't require them to meet any standard, as your money is already theirs.

A gaming audience that holds off on preordering will raise the bar and make gaming much more competitive by rewarding the games that actually deliver on launch.

I hope people remember this come April 19, no matter how good the presentation is.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

(A) continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

I disagree. With sufficient variety and a high enough ceiling, I could see Azjol-Nerub keeping me hooked for a year. It would have to be very creative and thorough, though.

[therumblings]

I hope people remember this come April 19, no matter how good the presentation is.

People always say they wont pre-order then they go ahead and pre-order, it's a lost cause at this point and people have been talking about this for years now.

[Varx]

Undermine would be boring.

A large underground goblin metropolis is boring to you? There's so much you can do with that. Imagine a large section that's an aquatic dome, streets winding around the city.

Like there is so much you can do...

Christ no wonder you constantly denounce tinkers.

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Don't see how people find stuff like this boring, but to each their own.

Wait until they see it in-game, they eat their words.