Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

And even in a best case scenario where Torghast was widely beloved and universally praised... they'd still toss it out at the end of the expansion. Maybe they'd bring it back for Timewalking or whatever during a content lull, but it remains that their original intent is that it is a Shadowlands-specific feature with no bearing on future content. It isn't something that comes with us an evolves in the same way as classes or talents or professions or dungeon/raid modes.

But that's also the case with Island Expeditions, Warfronts and Visions and even worse with MoP/WoD CM Dungeons and Legion Artifacts as that content literally is no longer available. Btw I agree that we need more evergreen content with some expansion exclusive content sprinkled on top. Player Housing f.e. would be perfect for 10.0.

[Izalla]

You wanna go off of data alone? Look at how many people are engineers. How many people make tinker based xmogs.

How popular techy fantasy is in general.

Like dude you seriously think people aren't gonna line up to make a belf tinker?

People making Rick cosplay Tinkers with belf blue hair.

You are completely out of touch with what can and can't be a success just because the two quintessential tinker races are underplayed.

MAYBE, they're underplayed BECAUSE there isn't a tinker option. You ever think about that?

Of course you didnt since you just blindly hate on Tinkers.

Just gonna throw out here that the only reason I haven't made a mecha gnome yet is because I can't be a tinker yet and my intended second goblin alt is also waiting in the wings to be rolled as a tinker the moment they are available.

[Dioporco]

Imagine if 10.0 is full of borrowed powers, hope players will strongly react this time

in 2022 wow isnt longer the only choice, so there are plenty of games better on that aspect, and people will migrate there

[Varx]

Just gonna throw out here that the only reason I haven't made a mecha gnome yet is because I can't be a tinker yet and my intended second goblin alt is also waiting in the wings to be rolled as a tinker the moment they are available.

*Steve carrel table hand smack* thank you.

[Shadochi]

And even in a best case scenario where Torghast was widely beloved and universally praised... they'd still toss it out at the end of the expansion. Maybe they'd bring it back for Timewalking or whatever during a content lull, but it remains that their original intent is that it is a Shadowlands-specific feature with no bearing on future content. It isn't something that comes with us an evolves in the same way as classes or talents or professions or dungeon/raid modes.

And what expansion content was relevant after the next expansion in that form? Dungeons only became "relevant" because of the timewalking system.

Once for example Cata hit nothing from Wrath was relevant.

Thing is with a system like Torghast is that we did get this version in Shadowlands, in BfA it was another system that evolved into Torghast. In 10.0 it will evolve even further. Of course Torghast won't be relevant for years to come, its an expansion feature (still they could add a challenge modified harder version where we are scaled down, like magetower).
But saying Torghast is a waste because it won't be relevant in 10.0 doesn't make sense, it served the purpose it was created for. And in 10.0 we will most likely see another version of this system thats been evolving for some time. I hope more dynamic in building the rooms and area

[Teriz]

Just gonna throw out here that the only reason I haven't made a mecha gnome yet is because I can't be a tinker yet and my intended second goblin alt is also waiting in the wings to be rolled as a tinker the moment they are available.

I have long believed that part of the reason the Goblin and Gnome population is so low is because of a lack of applicable class options.

Frankly, it can explain the relatively low Nightborne population numbers as well. Nightborne have been shown to utilize an arcane style of technology that simply can’t be emulated in the class lineup.

Draenei as whole also have low numbers and I believe it’s for similar reasons. However, Paladin and (alliance) Shaman access helps their numbers a bit.

I do believe that a future tech class should have an Artificer (magitech) component.

[draugril]

But that's also the case with Island Expeditions, Warfronts and Visions and even worse with MoP/WoD CM Dungeons and Legion Artifacts as that content literally is no longer available. Btw I agree that we need more evergreen content with some expansion exclusive content sprinkled on top. Player Housing f.e. would be perfect for 10.0.

Yes, that is absolutely the case. And clearly problematic, as we can agree. My original point was that I am looking for this new, novel evergreen content when I watch an expansion announcement. I don't want to be excited for patch X.0 - I want to be excited for World of WarCraft as a whole, now and in the future.

[Shadochi]

Imagine if 10.0 is full of borrowed powers, hope players will strongly react this time

And what WoW expansion didn't have borrowed power? Tier sets and legendaries are also borrowed power. Everything that increases power but is irrelevant by the max level of next expansion is borrowed power.

I think it would be better to call it pseudo-talent grind system borrowed power. But either way IMO the covenants and conduits are out of the Legion (artifacts, netherlight crucible), BfA (Azerite traits and powers) and SL systems the least influential. However I would like them to take a step back and make it:

- Like covenants - multiple different themed "factions" with upgrades and upgradable gear, cosmetics
- Only power is for outdoor content, doesn't work in raid, dungeon, pvp. (And maybe perhaps it works in the expansion system like Torghast/Visions).
- Make the outdoor gear higher base item level (either through upgrades or whatever way to increase ilvl, completing each of the new covenants increases max ilvl by X) capping at like equivalent to HC raid BUT in non outdoor content it gets scaled down to like LFR-Normal quality
- Keep borrowed power in Legendaries, Tier Sets, special equipment effects,.... (maybe a new class of consumables)

[draugril]

And what expansion content was relevant after the next expansion in that form? Dungeons only became "relevant" because of the timewalking system.

In that form? Nothing. Which is my point. Even if Torghast or whatever system designed with the same philosophy is the best content I've ever engaged with in WoW, it's not something that excites me. Because it'll be gone with the next X.0 patch. Features that excite me are those permanent additions. Classes. Races. Professions. Dungeon "modes" (like flex raids and Mythic+ and even the whole normal/heroic/mythic or 10/25 divisions). I'm an old man. Two years is so short.

[Shadochi]

If they were to add player housing, it would be great to do it with a world revamp and then have an area or few in most zones where the player can build their phased house. We all know that WoW housing if implemented will be instanced or phased.

But I still prefer the idea of a guild Hall over player housing

[draugril]

And what WoW expansion didn't have borrowed power? Tier sets and legendaries are also borrowed power. Everything that increases power but is irrelevant by the max level of next expansion is borrowed power.

Lumping in itemization as a whole with the "borrowed power" concept is a completely disingenuous. Upgrading your gear is part and parcel to the RPG experience. And more relevantly, this isn't what people are talking about when they use the term. You are redefining and generalizing the term to the point of uselessness to discredit people using the term for a specific critique.

[Shadochi]

In that form? Nothing. Which is my point. Even if Torghast or whatever system designed with the same philosophy is the best content I've ever engaged with in WoW, it's not something that excites me. Because it'll be gone with the next X.0 patch. Features that excite me are those permanent additions. Classes. Races. Professions. Dungeon "modes" (like flex raids and Mythic+ and even the whole normal/heroic/mythic or 10/25 divisions). I'm an old man. Two years is so short.

Ah my bad then. I misunderstood what you were talking about. I guess its a matter of perspective for that. I was excited for Torghast and still enjoy it, however I can see now how someone would not be as excited knowing it would be there for only 2 years.

[Lahis]

Gotta share this video.

https://youtu.be/g8zst3r2cIc

Basically, watching this gives me goosebumps about the potential for a revamp.

Sure this style is more painterly than WoW, but it's not that far off from what the updated WSG assets look like.

I so, so badly want to run around in traditional Azeroth landscapes and see them with new eyes. It's so damn immersive.

That's... soundtrack with an image?

[draugril]

Ah my bad then. I misunderstood what you were talking about. I guess its a matter of perspective for that. I was excited for Torghast and still enjoy it, however I can see now how someone would not be as excited knowing it would be there for only 2 years.

Moreover, because Blizzard ties these features into player power, they aren't able to develop the concept fully. A rogue-like experience in WoW is for a niche audience. But when they tie in player power, it needs to be made relevant (and palatable) to everyone. So they kneecap their own design. They keep it more in line with the traditional experience. They lessen the time required. In short, they begin to develop for the players that don't enjoy the feature rather than those that do. It isn't able to realize its full conceptual potential because they design the content for people that do it solely out of obligation.

[Kiria]

I have long believed that part of the reason the Goblin and Gnome population is so low is because of a lack of applicable class options.

Frankly, it can explain the relatively low Nightborne population numbers as well. Nightborne have been shown to utilize an arcane style of technology that simply can’t be emulated in the class lineup.

Draenei as whole also have low numbers and I believe it’s for similar reasons. However, Paladin and (alliance) Shaman access helps their numbers a bit.

I do believe that a future tech class should have an Artificer (magitech) component.

No... Don't assume the narrative is because lack of class, the fact is armour that people earn looks horrendous on midget races hence their lack of popularity.

You can give poop new accessories but at the end of the day it's still poop.

[username993720]

Given the prominence of Sylvanas throughout that expansion, Dark Ranger would have made the most sense. Them not bringing out DRs, and giving Sylvanas' bow and quiver exclusively to Hunters was very surprising, and perhaps an indication of their general view of the class.

Or, perhaps, a logical drop to a very specific raid encounter.

I agree. Undermine is the last potential continent remaining from Vanilla and the RPG.

It isn't.

[Teriz]

No... Don't assume the narrative is because lack of class, the fact is armour that people earn looks horrendous on midget races hence their lack of popularity.

You can give poop new accessories but at the end of the day it's still poop.

Then why is the Nightborne population so low? It's only 0.1% higher than Goblins.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't.

Oh? What would be the other one?

[AngerFork]

I have long believed that part of the reason the Goblin and Gnome population is so low is because of a lack of applicable class options.

Frankly, it can explain the relatively low Nightborne population numbers as well. Nightborne have been shown to utilize an arcane style of technology that simply can’t be emulated in the class lineup.

Draenei as whole also have low numbers and I believe it’s for similar reasons. However, Paladin and (alliance) Shaman access helps their numbers a bit.

I do believe that a future tech class should have an Artificer (magitech) component.

Perhaps, though I'd argue it has to do more with people wanting the more traditionally pretty models for transmog & the like. People have a tendency to like to show off either their earned gear or their transmog designs & they don't show up nearly as well on the smaller Gnome/Goblin frames as they do on a Human or a Blood Elf. In this respect as well, Blizz really did the Mechagnomes no favors by blocking off slots from transmog.

I do have to disagree with your take that Draenei are low numbers. According to statista, they were the 3rd most popular Alliance race in December 2019 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/). Still not as popular as Humans & Night Elves, not even close...but popular enough.

If they were to add player housing, it would be great to do it with a world revamp and then have an area or few in most zones where the player can build their phased house. We all know that WoW housing if implemented will be instanced or phased.

But I still prefer the idea of a guild Hall over player housing

Definitely agree on how it would be set up. Doing it with a world revamp & having a dedicated area to an instance/phased house is probably the best way to introduce it to the world. Curious, why do you prefer guild halls to player housing? As someone who has had their fair share of guild issues over the years, I feel like guild halls would be a great way for me to never have a safe controllable living space.

[Raetary]

It's only 0.1% higher than Goblins.

Where exactly do you people get those numbers from?

[Kiivar86]

Don't know if it counts as a "continent" precisely (I wouldn't count Kezan as one either though), but Tel'abim.