Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Grimbold21]

People saying Undermine "can't be an expansion" because "it would all just be underground and one aesthetic" are hilarious to me. Remember Northrend? Back before Wrath was launched, people said there was NO WAY that Northrend alone could be an expansion. "It's all just ice and snow! Blizzard would never make an expansion that's all just one thing!"

And then Northrend had more areas and more biomes than just "snowy" or "icy". Y'all need to have some god damn imagination, I swear.

Do you reckon that the existence of Sholozar Basin undermines the Northrend's description being a cold, snowy and icy continent?

And if you want to criticize posters for lacking imagination, point it towards those who shut down other class ideas other than the ones they suggest because "reasons".

[therumblings]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...pdates/1206968

Something new got posted but the link doesn't work, I doubt it's anything that important though.

Found a working link,https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...opment-updates Seems like it's just a recap of everything we knew already plus the Zul'Aman stuff for Classic.

[Fahrad Wagner]

People saying Undermine "can't be an expansion" because "it would all just be underground and one aesthetic" are hilarious to me. Remember Northrend? Back before Wrath was launched, people said there was NO WAY that Northrend alone could be an expansion. "It's all just ice and snow! Blizzard would never make an expansion that's all just one thing!"

And then Northrend had more areas and more biomes than just "snowy" or "icy". Y'all need to have some god damn imagination, I swear.

Exactly, it's not about the core idea or lore bit, it's about what you make out of it. Outland was just a devastated wasteland before TBC, Northrend was just a frozen wasteland before WotLK, Pandaria was nothing before MoP, the Broken Isles were a bunch of Elven ruins before Legion, Kul'Tiras and Zandalar were thought of as less diverse before BfA, and finally the Shadowlands were globally thought of as some kind or dark forest/realm à-la-Maw before Shadowlands... it's all about how you build an expansion around an idea, a theme, or a place. And how you diversify and make it work from there.

An Undermine expansion could easily feature 1. a tech-city zone 2. an industrial outskirt 3. a lava-core of Azeroth zone 4. a crystal cavern 5. tropical beaches on the surface, etc. If they want to diversify it and make it work, they will: Legion and BfA proved that (I'm speaking of zones only here, not gameplay mechanics).

So that being said... Dragon Isles could support an expansion. Lordaeron could support an expansion. Undermine could support an expansion. Unexplored South Seas islands could support an expansion. Other side of Azeroth could support an expansion. K'aresh could support an expansion. Nathreza could support an expansion.
Anduin's closet could support an exp-... well you get the gist.

[TomatoBisque]

I remember, "Oh don't worry, we listened and we won't have Artifact/Azerite Power this time!"

Then came Anima Power.

ah yes, the anima grind

you sure did get a lot of player power related to getting all that anima

like buying transmog and mounts

[AngerFork]

I'd love Undermine as a zone or even a hub city, but count me as one of those that don't see a lot of potential for it to be a full expansion. Part of the issue I see right now is weather. There's something great about going to a new expansion & seeing all the skyboxes & zone designs we have as well as the random weather effects in the zone. The soul storms of Maldraxxus for instance really bring a truly new life to that zone. But something like a full expansion of Undermine would by design be underground & encircled the dirt of Azeroth. While you could perhaps do something akin to FF14's Labyrinthos for a zone or two, it would likely feel a bit forced after that. Not to mention that with one of the main complaints about Shadowlands zones being that they don't feel like Warcraft areas, you'd likely find a similar complaint once we've spent 4-6 zones in various styles of caves.

But it could work as a zone or two sprinkled in with some other above ground zones. Or a hub city, it would be amazing as the main hub city for a revamp expansion. Imagine taking goblin mine carts to go to various zones that have been upgraded, similar to how SW/Org had the portals in Cata. I'd argue that would feel a lot more like part of the world & less like shoehorned in than the portals did back in Cata.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Do you reckon that the existence of Sholozar Basin undermines the Northrend's description being a cold, snowy and icy continent?

And if you want to criticize posters for lacking imagination, point it towards those who shut down other class ideas other than the ones they suggest because "reasons".

Not to go against you Grimbold, I often agree with you on this thread, but Northrend was described in a much less diverse way before WotLK than what we actually got in WotLK. Or at least that's my opinion, maybe I'm wrong about it and my brain made that up (if that is the case, and Northrend was described further before WotLK, please correct me people, and I'm not saying this in a passive agressive way )

[Khaza-R]

Found a working link,https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...opment-updates Seems like it's just a recap of everything we knew already plus the Zul'Aman stuff for Classic.

Looks like its just a recap of all the recent announcements

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...opment-updates

[therumblings]

Yep, not expecting anything new until the expansion announcement, I don't think we'll even get much next reset either, since most of the Sylvanas book has been leaked and the epilogue dialogue as well.

[Lady Atia]

Yep, not expecting anything new until the expansion announcement, I don't think we'll even get much next reset either, since most of the Sylvanas book has been leaked and the epilogue dialogue as well.

Well there are always weekly 9.2.5. builds to hold us over 'till the announcement.

[Grimbold21]

Not to go against you Grimbold, I often agree with you on this thread, but Northrend was descriped in a much less diverse way before WotLK than what we got in WotLK. Or at least that's my opinion, maybe I'm wrong about it and my brain made that up (if that is the case, and Northrend was described further before WotLK, please correct me people, and I'm not saying this in a passive agressive way )

I'm not saying otherwise. The poster I quoted said that, like you just mentioned, that what we thought of Northrend prior to Wotlk, was that it was pretty much the frozen north.
And I countered, to some extent, that the existence of Sholozar basin - which arguably is the only zone that doesnt fit - doesn't undermine the blanket description that people made/make of Northrend. It was still a cold, snowy frozen place.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Well there are always weekly 9.2.5. builds to hold us over 'till the announcement.

My thoughts as well, it's all pass by quite fast!

[therumblings]

Well there are always weekly 9.2.5. builds to hold us over 'till the announcement.

True! I hope we can find more hints and stuff, I miss the Iron Horde texture and Kultiras_quest type of stuff.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Undermine + Nerubians + Titanic Earthen Civilization + Furbolg Barrow Dens = an Underground expansion that has it all.

I honestly think that would have too much variety, and possibly too little aesthetic variety if done wrong, so I would honestly prefer if they just focused on Nerubians instead since it gives us the most of an underground expansion without any hurdles and with plenty of unexplored, interesting lore. One thing I'd like to do is delve into the root of the Emerald Nightmare by exploring the roots of Vordrassil.

[Dioporco]

People saying Undermine "can't be an expansion" because "it would all just be underground and one aesthetic" are hilarious to me. Remember Northrend? Back before Wrath was launched, people said there was NO WAY that Northrend alone could be an expansion. "It's all just ice and snow! Blizzard would never make an expansion that's all just one thing!"

And then Northrend had more areas and more biomes than just "snowy" or "icy". Y'all need to have some god damn imagination, I swear.

Northrend is a region-continent and nobody ever said that


Undermine is just saying Stormwind

[therumblings]

My thoughts as well, it's all pass by quite fast!

And also having fun wasting time pushing the page count up

[Fahrad Wagner]

I'm not saying otherwise. The poster I quoted said that, like you just mentioned, that what we thought of Northrend prior to Wotlk, was that it was pretty much the frozen north.
And I countered, to some extent, that the existence of Sholozar basin - which arguably is the only zone that doesnt fit - doesn't undermine the blanket description that people made/make of Northrend. It was still a cold, snowy frozen place.

OK, on that we agree! My quote was misplaced, I was more arguing in favour of Undermine being a candidate to support a whole expansion. I hope that makes sense, my covid-foggy brain is not working very well today hehe

[therumblings]

Undermine would be cool, I hope they include the Motherlode and the Goblin starting area into the zone if they actually ever did that.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Well, to be fair, I don't much enjoy the gloomy industrial revolution like setting of the Goblins.

I do think that, played semi-seriously and with enough creativity, that would actually make for a very fun setting for a few zones. The Iron Horde did it fine, and I did like the industrial elements of Draenor a bit. I do think it's one that Blizzard hasn't explored too significantly, which makes it an interesting start.

[Fahrad Wagner]

And also having fun wasting time pushing the page count up

That's right m'favourite dwarfffffff! And time to ORNATE the hype train. Tchooootchoooo!

[therumblings]

I do think that, played semi-seriously and with enough creativity, that would actually make for a very fun setting for a few zones. The Iron Horde did it fine, and I did like the industrial elements of Draenor a bit. I do think it's one that Blizzard hasn't explored too significantly, which makes it an interesting start.

I think Goblins could be serious, even if they just pulled a Mechagon 2 but with Goblins I'd honestly be fine with it. With Goblins and Gnomes you'd basically have to push their silliness far enough to reach into badass territory for them to be taken seriously I think. Mechagnomes didn't land for me, but they aren't horrible. I think a Goblin continent could be badass and change the general view on them.