Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

4-5 aesthetics is typical for an expansion. Everything being a variation of Nerubian Kingdom would be too much too.

As I said before, I've envisioned a pretty good map for one before—it essentially would consist of a Scourge- or Old God-heavy Naz'Anak-esque zone (especially now that we know how deep the Forge of Souls stretches), the outskirts of a sub-Ulduar complex that would be revealed to be Uldorus (possibly the same location as the former depending on the scale of it, since Naz'Anak looks exactly like what I'd expect the outskirts of the World-Soul containment facility to look like), a sprawling Nerubian city resembling what Azjol-Nerub should've been, a Drustvar-esque dark forest around the roots of Vordrassil where the Nightmare started and blends into reality (making the zone go increasingly corrupted and surreal as you got closer, looking more and more like the Nightmare in Legion), a massive Troll catacomb or city stretching beneath Zul'Drak (finally leading us to the end of the Snake tail and bringing back another cut element from WotLK, which was the Zul'Drak raid that was cut just like Naz'Anak was) and possibly a more pristine and colorful forest fed by currents seeping from Lake Winterspring and which pours water into the lower zones. One thing I always also pictured that would be interesting is that the zones are on different vertical levels, with a pristine forest zone at the top and Naz'Anak or Azjol-Nerub at the lowest altitude.

The Nerubians would be the primary colonies, but there could also be a Troll presence, a Nightmare presence, a Scourge presence, a Titan presence etc. and a variety of pretty and exotic-yet-grounded zones.

[therumblings]

An Undermine expansion with Tinkers would be really nice if they tried to play the Tinkers and Goblins really seriously and not so much comedy side relief.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

So yeah, it's pretty much a question of in-game scale too, Zandalar being a perfect example of that.

Fair enough—I did misremember the scale of Kul Tiras on the Chronicles map (although I did recall it was significantly smaller than it is in-game) so I thought it was still more significantly upped. Nevertheless, it still shows that you can do jsut about anything with a zone that appeared to be small and fully-understood.

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An Undermine expansion with Tinkers would be really nice if they tried to play the Tinkers and Goblins really seriously and not so much comedy side relief.

That's what I'm thinking—Gaia's Lament-esque, heavily play up the industrial and depraved side of Goblins and their greed, etc. I'd prefer a Nerubian one for a full expansion, though.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Fair enough—I did misremember the scale of Kul Tiras on the Chronicles map (although I did recall it was significantly smaller than it is in-game) so I thought it was still more significantly upped. Nevertheless, it still shows that you can do jsut about anything with a zone that appeared to be small and fully-understood.

Pretty much!

[therumblings]

Fair enough—I did misremember the scale of Kul Tiras on the Chronicles map (although I did recall it was significantly smaller than it is in-game) so I thought it was still more significantly upped. Nevertheless, it still shows that you can do jsut about anything with a zone that appeared to be small and fully-understood.

Kul Tiras is honestly one of the best continents in game, what was thought to be just a boring seafaring human island got turned into 4 zones with deep interesting lore, it'd be pretty great if they did that for something like Kezan or Tel'Abim for example.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Maybe we'll even get some mecha goblins lol. Or maybe not. I think Blizzard wants the gnomes to mainly have the mecha cyberpunk theme going for them since they used to all be mechagnomes. And honestly I find the concept of mechagnomes badass but in game it just didn't play out that well imo. Goblins could definitely get a grittier side of WoW lore most people wouldn't expect since they are mostly just green gnome comedy relief right now.

I'd say I prefer Goblins as the industrial side than the mechanical side, for sure—I think they're a more down-to-earth kind of industry, though I think the bulk of that credit really goes more to the Dark Iron, who are the most truly industrial race, I think, alongside the Mag'har. The Goblins are plenty capable of carrying their own themes, I'm sure, going off of the MOTHERLODE!!! alone.

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Kul Tiras is honestly one of the best continents in game, what was thought to be just a boring seafaring human island got turned into 4 zones with deep interesting lore, it'd be pretty great if they did that for something like Kezan or Tel'Abim for example.

I admit this is somewhat selling me on the idea, though I still remain far more of a Nerubian guy–perhaps with the Undermine and its surrounding area only being one zone, or the area around the Undermine mostly being the zone we're trying to dig into for a final patch mini-continent like Argus (or a .2 patch, if we'll take the Nazjatar approach—Nazjatar was too small for me, though). The surface, conversely, could bring us to neighboring islands or a tropical environment we only saw in Zuldazar and the Lost Isles and not really anywhere else. Then again, the recent volcanic explosion would still make it pretty difficult to make anything on the surface of Kezan, so the underground and neighboring islands may be a necessity.

[therumblings]

Any underground zones would be good, it's one concept they haven't really explored unless you count those Nerubian dungeons or Deepholm.

[Teriz]

Because a city sized version of the Dalaran sewers isn't appealing.

People were/are asking for the game to go back to being grounded Azeroth, but I reckon not many wish that to mean the literal underground of the planet, unless of course it's the Nerubian empire, and even then, a continent sized version of Azjol-Nerub would get annoying fast.

You don't think Blizzard artists could create a wide variety of Goblin-themed and general underground zones? I think you are underestimating their talents.

In addition, the lore states that there are portions of Undermine that are glassed areas where you can see the ocean around you. So I doubt you get an entire landmass that resembles Dalaran sewers.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

In addition, the lore states that there are portions of Undermine that are glassed areas where you can see the ocean around you. So I doubt you get an entire landmass that resembles Dalaran sewers.

This brings to mind the Deeprun Tram.

[therumblings]

You don't think Blizzard artists could create a wide variety of Goblin-themed and general underground zones? I think you are underestimating their talents.

In addition, the lore states that there are portions of Undermine that are glassed areas where you can see the ocean around you. So I doubt you get an entire landmass that resembles Dalaran sewers.

Just thinking about that sounds so cool, I wanted a fully realized Kezan for years but not necessarily for 10.0, but my mind is starting to change now. Hopefully Tinkers as well lol, it's been a long time coming.

[Teriz]

For Undermine I was more thinking along the lines of Shipwreck Cove.

I could definitely see portions of Undermine looking like that as well.

[therumblings]

I'm stilling thinking it's Dragon Isles but I did just gain more hype for Kezan stuff.

[Teriz]

If Undermine give us a Kobolds and Catacombs, old-school RPG style expansion then I am completely and 100% for it.

Yeah, anyone who thinks Blizzard artists can't come up with great concepts for underground areas really should check out the art from that expansion.

I'm stilling thinking it's Dragon Isles but I did just gain more hype for Kezan stuff.

I believe it'll be a combination of both concepts; Dragon Isles and Undermine due to the subtle connections between Goblins and Dragons.

[Grimbold21]

You don't think Blizzard artists could create a wide variety of Goblin-themed and general underground zones? I think you are underestimating their talents.

In addition, the lore states that there are portions of Undermine that are glassed areas where you can see the ocean around you. So I doubt you get an entire landmass that resembles Dalaran sewers.

The game already offers a panoply of Goblin themed areas to make your judgements from. As I've already stated before, I don't find their aesthetic appealing. Quite the contrary, actually.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Just thinking about that sounds so cool, I wanted a fully realized Kezan for years but not necessarily for 10.0, but my mind is starting to change now. Hopefully Tinkers as well lol, it's been a long time coming.

I'm thinking more "Mechanic" than "Tinker", since Tinkers in their traditional incarnation would be too hard to take seriously—this would also expand it to Dwarves, Dark Iron and Mag'har. They could inherit abilities but be more industrial than just robots and rockets and whathaveyou (whilst maintaining those things in spades).

[ercarp]

Out of all the leaks I've seen so far I am hoping for a revamped Lordaeron, it's been on my wishlist ever since Vanilla WoW. Dragon Isle's is fine I guess but the human buildings they've scaled up over the last few years, which is yet to be implemented gives me a sliver of hope that we're gonna see a Lordaeron revamp (and hopefully more of Azeroth).

Sadly, I don't feel like "revamped <anything>" has any sort of pull outside of the most hardcore Warcraft fans. Your expansion isn't going to make any headlines if the new area is "an old zone, but updated to look better".

[Teriz]

The game already offers a panoply of Goblin themed areas to make your judgements from. As I've already stated before, I don't find their aesthetic appealing. Quite the contrary, actually.

Well sure, but a Goblin-themed area would be different from a Goblin-themed continent. Blizzard artists would know innately that they would have to vary up the landmass to keep player interest. They would do that by pulling from several sources. Under no circumstances would they put out a new landmass with multiple zones that have similar appearances and themes throughout. Further, Goblins are unpredictable, inventive, and incredibly greedy. From those racial cues you can really pull out a lot of different ideas for zones.

[AngerFork]

I'm thinking more "Mechanic" than "Tinker", since Tinkers in their traditional incarnation would be too hard to take seriously—this would also expand it to Dwarves, Dark Iron and Mag'har. They could inherit abilities but be more industrial than just robots and rockets and whathaveyou.

I'd think it would go the other way, though it would still be expanded to most races. Tinker as the class name, Mechanic as one of the specs. Marketing wise, more people know of Tinkers as a fantasy trope whereas a name like Mechanic tends to be tied more into parts of a raid fight ("This is the fire mechanic, stay out of the circles.") Plus, they've been known as Tinkers since back in WC3.

[bagina]

I think this needs to be said, even with "cosmic" stuff it all boils down to doing menial tasks for lowly NPCs like collecting slimes. It was no different in Shadowlands. Blizzard shouldn't do cosmic stuff because they never actually reach the "cosmic" part, the scope is always so small. They always turn it into circus with the trite shit that just trivializes the supposed "cosmic" threats.

[Teriz]

This brings to mind the Deeprun Tram.

Yes. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the concept for Deeprun Tram came from Undermine's description in the RPG.