Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Yeah, I dont actually think he does either, im just playing along, but you never know.

I'd say we should possibly drop it since it seems to be annoying him—that, and the joke will run itself into the ground after a while and just become annoying. I'd say we quit while it's still funny.

[Ansi]

Looks like the next Hearthstone expansion is based on the unannounced Warcraft expansion.

“second [expansion] one will be heavily influenced by something from World of Warcraft”

Source: https://techpulse.be/nieuws/336578/h...e-card-reveal/

[Chickat]

I just found out that 9.2.5 isn't Khadgar's first appearance in Shadowlands, he's been chillin in Oribos for a while
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=176333/a...raven#comments

Well thats.... Something I guess. I wonder if they initially had plans for him that got cut.

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Out of all the leaks I've seen so far I am hoping for a revamped Lordaeron, it's been on my wishlist ever since Vanilla WoW. Dragon Isle's is fine I guess but the human buildings they've scaled up over the last few years, which is yet to be implemented gives me a sliver of hope that we're gonna see a Lordaeron revamp (and hopefully more of Azeroth).

Yeah, It would be cool too.

I would rank the expansions in this order.

Dragon Isles with full World ravamp
Full world revamp, no new zones.
Loraeron revamp with no other zones revamped.
Dragon Isles
Undermine expansion.


I would be happy with any of those, but the top 3 would really get my juices flowing.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Looks like the next Hearthstone expansion is based on the unannounced Warcraft expansion.

“second [expansion] one will be heavily influenced by something from World of Warcraft”

Source: https://techpulse.be/nieuws/336578/h...e-card-reveal/

I think the wording suggests it's just Nazjatar that inspired it.

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Well thats.... Something I guess. I wonder if they initially had plans for him that got cut.

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Yeah, It would be cool too.

I would rank the expansions in this order.

Dragon Isles with full World ravamp
Full world revamp, no new zones.
Loraeron revamp with no other zones revamped.
Dragon Isles
Undermine expansion.

I agree! This is roughly my list, as well. I'd love to see a return to Classic's style.

[Marlamin]

I have to admit I'm not wholly aware about your overall motives for quitting datamining—I've not read the thread thoroughly enough, but I just do want to be sure I'm getting the right understanding of what your objections are.

It seems to be that it's the two things you mentioned here—that is the datamining of major story points and the subsequent harassment of writers that people decide to inexplicably do because they don't like a story, but I can't really find the whole context. In case I'm missing anything, could you summarize?

I should emphasize I'm not trying to be nosy or get any kind of talk, I'm just curious and feel a little out-of-the-loop.

While that particular reason is definitely a good indication of the community's toxicity, it isn't necessarily new. My reasons for getting out are based on my experience over the last ~13 years of doing this as well as a lot of self-reflection. While the increasingly negative attitude from the community towards singular devs as well as members of the community council (which I'm a part of) have sped up the timetable of me leaving, it's not by definition "the reason" as I've been planning on leaving since late 2020/early 2021.

It's hard to put into words without going into too much detail on a personal level and off-topic, but I feel like it's better for me personally to quit datamining (and by extension the maintenance of various public tools). The full list of exact reasons/motives/context I'll likely never talk about publicly as a lot of it is very personal, but know I've been thinking about this for years at this point.

[Revamp Man]

They're simply purchaseable but they're the Nightborne themed items people expected as heritage weapons for ages (sans the 2h sword, I suppose).

Ok so they aren’t heritage weapons like the ones from the leak

That’s like calling the warfront armor heritage armor

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Not to stir the pot, but we should seriously have an honest conversation about how Blizzard implements new classes. The fact that Blizzard has stayed strictly within WC3 boundaries for class implementation is something that should be noted. In addition, the lack of a Necromancer or Dark Ranger class in Shadowlands should also be taken into consideration. Those two class options were layups, with Sylvanas being focused on heavily (and the Forsaken getting focused on in 9.2.5) and they didn't happen. Frankly I don't believe that we have many class options. I firmly believe that Blizzard has 1 or 2 classes left, and that's it. If there's no class released in 10.0 (which is highly possible), that is 3 new classes in 20 years of the game's existence. That is a VERY low number considering other MMOs.

So let’s say they are using WC3 strictly
Now let’s also keep in mind SL could have the tbc treatment in terms of those classes
No dark ranger could be due to the fact the hero npc was a main antagonist or that it wouldn’t make sense for us to have a class based around the antagonist.
No necromancer could be due to the fact that the story revolves around us fixing death and earning our way into the good graces of the shadowlands. We have no mass necromancer force and we haven’t really had any semblance of one outside of bwonsamdi.

Both classes could be added later based on the theme of the future expansion like necromancer in the case of a scourge based expansion since the story leads to that being an issue on Azeroth much how tbc was skipped over for a different opportunity

I think this could also be used to explain tinkers in the future

Now while we look at this keeping in mind the SL development being behind let’s also keep it in mind that when we had a similar situation with WoD and SL is the first expansion in the almost 20 year life cycle of the game to break the new Class cycle.

The established new race cycle was also broken by WoD and they created a new and personally better way of doing some races via allied races

“WoW doesn’t need a new class there’s too many balance issues already” is what some say but can we stop thinking that a group of oranges gets spoiled if you add another??

We have no clue what class is coming. We have possible hints to everything be they solid or serious reaching
Dark ranger: the unique hunter gear and wailing arrow
Dragonsworn: black talon agents being placed through the story since WoD
Tinkers: island expedition team and a rise in tech use during BfA
Necromancer: we literally just checked out death realms and gained the support of the house of necromancers in SL

If people believe “class X won’t happen because of Y” then cool that’s always a possibility and it’s speculation but the moment it becomes “X won’t happen because Y and thus Z will definitely happen and if you disagree you are wrong” then that’s the point where the argument goes out the window and deserves mockery

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I can't believe I didn't find out about Gallywix in tazavesh until now, how hasn't it been talked about more, especially with lore YouTubers like bell and T&E who love to speculate.


This dude is so totally up to some shady shit. Imagine this motherfucker with Broker/First One's Tech.

I dunno if anyone remembers the Zanda and KT human sailors locked in battle in Azuna during Legion. One could argue it was an obvious hint to BFA.

Perhaps this is similar to an upcoming story involving this crazy sob in Undermine.

BTW, love the sig Teriz. Yoink.

You mean the infinite dragon fight?

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Well thats.... Something I guess. I wonder if they initially had plans for him that got cut.

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Yeah, It would be cool too.

I would rank the expansions in this order.

Dragon Isles with full World ravamp
Full world revamp, no new zones.
Loraeron revamp with no other zones revamped.
Dragon Isles
Undermine expansion.


I would be happy with any of those, but the top 3 would really get my juices flowing.

See I’m not sold on a full revamp but a few zones getting the zidormii treatment definitely

Over time I expect all of the zones but for now I see them doing minimal while taking advantage of the existing phasing mechanics to avoid outrage like Cata

[UndedoKoleda]

I decided to check on how the Race to World First is going, and apparently there was a break or something, so on the screen alongside a countdown timer there was the Jailer dancing and twerking... Does anyone know where does this animation come from? Is it in the game? Is it used for some already existing race, or was it custom made for him?

https://clips.twitch.tv/ClumsyMoistA...-uhk_6ZJbJBfql

This is the only video that I could find, it starts at around 00:00:08

[Revamp Man]

I just realised something.

Sylvanas Windrunner is over 2 800 years old.

Nearly all the major characters she's been interacting with in the story lately are like children to her.

The only Azerothians who were around longer than her in Shadowlands would be Tyrande, Shandris and Ysera. Basically the ones who ended up hunting her and judging her. That's pretty cool to consider.

But what's more, Sylvanas will probably still survive Anduin, Thrall, Jaina and all the rest. Looking for souls within the Maw, even if it takes her centuries to complete her mission, will at some point just feel like a small part of her life. A little footnote.

You just described immortality

That’s a better introduction to it than Highlander though

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I decided to check on how the Race to World First is going, and apparently there was a break or something, so on the screen alongside a countdown timer there was the Jailer dancing and twerking... Does anyone know where does this animation come from? Is it in the game? Is it used for some already existing race, or was it custom made for him?

https://clips.twitch.tv/ClumsyMoistA...-uhk_6ZJbJBfql

This is the only video that I could find, it starts at around 00:00:08

You can use the model viewer to have the model do most animations

[Lahis]

I decided to check on how the Race to World First is going, and apparently there was a break or something, so on the screen alongside a countdown timer there was the Jailer dancing and twerking... Does anyone know where does this animation come from? Is it in the game? Is it used for some already existing race, or was it custom made for him?

https://clips.twitch.tv/ClumsyMoistA...-uhk_6ZJbJBfql

This is the only video that I could find, it starts at around 00:00:08

The beauty of rigged 3D models: you can put just about any animation on them.

I have earlier seen that twerking animation on Thanos, but don't know what is the original source.

[Revamp Man]

So since the epilogue of Sylvanas in game is in the novel can we accept that the book was delayed for the patch and that means the patch was delayed??
Or are we still going to say that Shadowlands was planned to be a mess in terms of story??

[Lahis]

So since the epilogue of Sylvanas in game is in the novel can we accept that the book was delayed for the patch and that means the patch was delayed??
Or are we still going to say that Shadowlands was planned to be a mess in terms of story??

It has been clear for a long time that the book has been delayed for the patch.

[Sondrelk]

It's kind of weird how little emphasis Blizzard puts on immortality, except for when it comes to Illidan's story.

I mean really, the Blood Elves, Void Elves and Night Elves should have such a different view on everything from the other races.

Quel'thalas being on the Horde is also a bit weird imo. All the events of the Third War is just a tiny fraction of their history, and it would at the very least be interesting to hear some of them reflect on picking sides. I think it would make sense if the nation went neutral honestly, with Blood Elves and Void Elves being two splinter factions that join Horde or Alliance.

The Belves being Horde has not really made sense ever since the ending to TBC. MoP decided to point this out and then add the Dalaran incident to give them a reason to not at least go neutral. But other than that the only reason the Belves are still Horde is because you can't realistically remove Belves from the Horde while the game is still ongoing.

[Darkarath]

While that particular reason is definitely a good indication of the community's toxicity, it isn't necessarily new. My reasons for getting out are based on my experience over the last ~13 years of doing this as well as a lot of self-reflection. While the increasingly negative attitude from the community towards singular devs as well as members of the community council (which I'm a part of) have sped up the timetable of me leaving, it's not by definition "the reason" as I've been planning on leaving since late 2020/early 2021.

It's hard to put into words without going into too much detail on a personal level and off-topic, but I feel like it's better for me personally to quit datamining (and by extension the maintenance of various public tools). The full list of exact reasons/motives/context I'll likely never talk about publicly as a lot of it is very personal, but know I've been thinking about this for years at this point.

Thank you for everything that you have done! I have been following your dataminings for years now!

Hope that everything will be ok and that we can keep discussing WoW in these forums.

[Fahrad Wagner]

While that particular reason is definitely a good indication of the community's toxicity, it isn't necessarily new. My reasons for getting out are based on my experience over the last ~13 years of doing this as well as a lot of self-reflection. While the increasingly negative attitude from the community towards singular devs as well as members of the community council (which I'm a part of) have sped up the timetable of me leaving, it's not by definition "the reason" as I've been planning on leaving since late 2020/early 2021.

It's hard to put into words without going into too much detail on a personal level and off-topic, but I feel like it's better for me personally to quit datamining (and by extension the maintenance of various public tools). The full list of exact reasons/motives/context I'll likely never talk about publicly as a lot of it is very personal, but know I've been thinking about this for years at this point.

Thank you for sharing your reflection and decision with us, datamining or no datamining, you'll always be our feathered legend Marla!

[Vakir]

While that particular reason is definitely a good indication of the community's toxicity, it isn't necessarily new. My reasons for getting out are based on my experience over the last ~13 years of doing this as well as a lot of self-reflection. While the increasingly negative attitude from the community towards singular devs as well as members of the community council (which I'm a part of) have sped up the timetable of me leaving, it's not by definition "the reason" as I've been planning on leaving since late 2020/early 2021.

It's hard to put into words without going into too much detail on a personal level and off-topic, but I feel like it's better for me personally to quit datamining (and by extension the maintenance of various public tools). The full list of exact reasons/motives/context I'll likely never talk about publicly as a lot of it is very personal, but know I've been thinking about this for years at this point.

Best parrot, best birb. We appreciate all you have done.

[Sugani]

I can’t help but feel that the next expansion will be as decisive as Mist of Pandaria was revealed.

[Calfredd]

I can’t help but feel that the next expansion will be as decisive as Mist of Pandaria was revealed.

Decisive or divisive?

[Hitei]

Blizzard is as incompetent in hiding their plot development as like they are in creating a fun game.

And i absolutely have no problem in using their incompetence against them.

Probably worry about your own first, bud.

[Marlamin]

Blizzard is as incompetent in hiding their plot development as like they are in creating a fun game.

And i absolutely have no problem in using their incompetence against them.

I do think they've gotten considerably better in recent years when it comes to hiding things, but I still don't think it's cool to actually spoil full plot points. I'm mostly okay with meta-spoilers like "we're going back to Tirisfal and Calia is involved" or "they added revamped assets for x" and think that's cool and it generates hype, but "here's the full dialog Blizzard accidentally decrypted in 9.2.5 of what happens in less than a week" is just rude towards both players and devs. Sure, it's incompetent to decrypt that content early but I don't think it's an automatic excuse to release that. Same goes for decryption keys of major cinematics being found a long time before they're supposed to release. There's no good reason outside of "yay clicks/money" to post that kind of content early.

[Teriz]

It did, but I'm not as concerned with ability set so much as overall class fantasy/design here. Most of the classes we've had so far have been a departure from their initial setup. DKs for instance are nowhere near what we saw of them in the RTS games, but they still fit well.

Eh, I can't agree with that. Death Knights in WoW simply absorbed pretty much every ability from its fellow Undead WC3 units.

Unholy was simply a combination of Death Knight, Necromancer, Ghoul, Abomination, Crypt Lord, and Gargoyle concepts.
Frost was essentially the Lich in melee form, along with the Frost Wyrm unit.
Blood was an outgrowth of the DKs lore (Vampiric Runeblades), Ghoul's Cannibalism ability, Death Pact, and the Dreadlord's Vampiric Aura ability.

It's very easy to see how they built the DK class when you look at the totality of units in the Undead faction, and realize their goal was to bring a Necromantic class into WoW. It wasn't a departure, it was an expansion.

By the same token, if Blizz does opt to bring in Tinkers I'm sure the Island Expedition teams & what we saw in HotS will be used as inspiration, but that doesn't change what I'm saying. More what I'm saying is that if Blizz is really trying to turn the page on the old RTS games, the presence of Tinkers in WC3 could be a hindrance if for no other reason than sheer stubbornness about turning the page. Plus by turning the page, more classes are opened up. Bards, Dragonsworn, Necromancer...really, anything is on the table at that point.

Here's the problem; There are no Bard heroes in WC3, TTRPG, or WoW, so you're not pulling from anything. In addition, the Bard playstyle (buffed-based Auras) were rejected by Blizzard in TBC, and we already have multiple classes using music/sound based abilities. Russell Brower (later Russell the Bard) for example was using Priest abilities in Cataclysm. Dragonsworn has been demonstrated to just be existing classes who swear allegiance to dragons. Druids and Mages for example are dragonsworn to Green, Blue, and Red dragons for example. Both classes also have Dragon abilities. Druids have Ysera's Tears, and Mages have Alexstraza's Fury.

Finally, any logical Necromancer ability can simply be absorbed by the Death Knight and Warlock classes.

I'm certainly not saying that Blizzard could never do those classes, but Blizzard tends to build up class concepts before bringing them out as classes. For example, for me to believe a Bard class is possible in WoW, I would need to see some Bard heroes fighting for the Alliance and Horde. Prominent heroes who actively participate in the lore, and are known heroes to the major lore characters. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque for example are participants in the lore, and are known comrades to characters like Thrall, Jaina, Varian, and Rexxar. There are no such characters for Bards at all, and there is no history of Bard classes or heroes in WC period. I've heard this is the case because Metzen personally despised the class and I remember a developer saying that Bards are "too soft" for WoW.

Many of them you could fit in to be sure, but there's a few that really wouldn't fit quite as well. Bards for instance don't really fit into any of current classes without a strong amount of shoehorning. Samurai wouldn't really cleanly fit in with Rogues or Warriors, it would take some shuffling to properly fit in either class. Dancers have been used in a variety of RPGs, but don't really neatly fit into any currently playable class. A Gunslinger also doesn't really fit in with any current class...maybe Hunter, but that's more of a single weapon ranged class as opposed to two six shooters. Draconic classes don't really fit in either, no current class really seems to derive from the aspects.

Those are Final Fantasy classes. There's no basis for any of those classes in Warcraft, and those concepts don't have enough meat to be multi-spec classes. I'll repeat that Blizzard has rejected the playstyle of Bards and Dancers wholesale, so there's really no point to them being in the game. You can give the existing classes song-based abilities (and they have).

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So let’s say they are using WC3 strictly
Now let’s also keep in mind SL could have the tbc treatment in terms of those classes
No dark ranger could be due to the fact the hero npc was a main antagonist or that it wouldn’t make sense for us to have a class based around the antagonist.
No necromancer could be due to the fact that the story revolves around us fixing death and earning our way into the good graces of the shadowlands. We have no mass necromancer force and we haven’t really had any semblance of one outside of bwonsamdi.

Both classes could be added later based on the theme of the future expansion like necromancer in the case of a scourge based expansion since the story leads to that being an issue on Azeroth much how tbc was skipped over for a different opportunity

I think this could also be used to explain tinkers in the future

Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that Blizzard has no intention of ever making those concepts into classes? Instead of a Necromancer, Blizzard beefed up the Necromantic abilities in the Death Knight class. Instead of a Dark Ranger, Blizzard gave Hunters exclusive access to two Dark Ranger abilities. I also don't buy the notion that DRs weren't made available because Sylvanas was a bad guy, DKs were based on the main antagonist of WotLK.

If Blizzard gave Hunters Pocket Factory, Rock-It turret, and a Mech form, I would say that we definitely aren't getting a Tinker class.

We have no clue what class is coming. We have possible hints to everything be they solid or serious reaching
Dark ranger: the unique hunter gear and wailing arrow
Dragonsworn: black talon agents being placed through the story since WoD
Tinkers: island expedition team and a rise in tech use during BfA
Necromancer: we literally just checked out death realms and gained the support of the house of necromancers in SL

If people believe “class X won’t happen because of Y” then cool that’s always a possibility and it’s speculation but the moment it becomes “X won’t happen because Y and thus Z will definitely happen and if you disagree you are wrong” then that’s the point where the argument goes out the window and deserves mockery Cata

Again, I would remove DR and Necromancer from contention. You can place any ability for those concept in the Hunter and DK class respectively.

Dragonsworn are existing classes with draconic abilities. Mages for example have Dragon's Breath and Alexstraza's Fury, Warriors have Dragon's Roar, and Druids have Ysera's Tears. Blizzard has never demonstrated Dragonsworn to be a unique class with unique abilities. Which is why I believe that Blizzard is going to bring Undermine in alongside Dragon Isles in order to justify a Tinker class inclusion. If I'm wrong about that, feel free to mock me.