Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Calfredd]

I can’t help but feel that the next expansion will be as decisive as Mist of Pandaria was revealed.

Decisive or divisive?

[Hitei]

Blizzard is as incompetent in hiding their plot development as like they are in creating a fun game.

And i absolutely have no problem in using their incompetence against them.

Probably worry about your own first, bud.

[Marlamin]

Blizzard is as incompetent in hiding their plot development as like they are in creating a fun game.

And i absolutely have no problem in using their incompetence against them.

I do think they've gotten considerably better in recent years when it comes to hiding things, but I still don't think it's cool to actually spoil full plot points. I'm mostly okay with meta-spoilers like "we're going back to Tirisfal and Calia is involved" or "they added revamped assets for x" and think that's cool and it generates hype, but "here's the full dialog Blizzard accidentally decrypted in 9.2.5 of what happens in less than a week" is just rude towards both players and devs. Sure, it's incompetent to decrypt that content early but I don't think it's an automatic excuse to release that. Same goes for decryption keys of major cinematics being found a long time before they're supposed to release. There's no good reason outside of "yay clicks/money" to post that kind of content early.

[Teriz]

It did, but I'm not as concerned with ability set so much as overall class fantasy/design here. Most of the classes we've had so far have been a departure from their initial setup. DKs for instance are nowhere near what we saw of them in the RTS games, but they still fit well.

Eh, I can't agree with that. Death Knights in WoW simply absorbed pretty much every ability from its fellow Undead WC3 units.

Unholy was simply a combination of Death Knight, Necromancer, Ghoul, Abomination, Crypt Lord, and Gargoyle concepts.
Frost was essentially the Lich in melee form, along with the Frost Wyrm unit.
Blood was an outgrowth of the DKs lore (Vampiric Runeblades), Ghoul's Cannibalism ability, Death Pact, and the Dreadlord's Vampiric Aura ability.

It's very easy to see how they built the DK class when you look at the totality of units in the Undead faction, and realize their goal was to bring a Necromantic class into WoW. It wasn't a departure, it was an expansion.

By the same token, if Blizz does opt to bring in Tinkers I'm sure the Island Expedition teams & what we saw in HotS will be used as inspiration, but that doesn't change what I'm saying. More what I'm saying is that if Blizz is really trying to turn the page on the old RTS games, the presence of Tinkers in WC3 could be a hindrance if for no other reason than sheer stubbornness about turning the page. Plus by turning the page, more classes are opened up. Bards, Dragonsworn, Necromancer...really, anything is on the table at that point.

Here's the problem; There are no Bard heroes in WC3, TTRPG, or WoW, so you're not pulling from anything. In addition, the Bard playstyle (buffed-based Auras) were rejected by Blizzard in TBC, and we already have multiple classes using music/sound based abilities. Russell Brower (later Russell the Bard) for example was using Priest abilities in Cataclysm. Dragonsworn has been demonstrated to just be existing classes who swear allegiance to dragons. Druids and Mages for example are dragonsworn to Green, Blue, and Red dragons for example. Both classes also have Dragon abilities. Druids have Ysera's Tears, and Mages have Alexstraza's Fury.

Finally, any logical Necromancer ability can simply be absorbed by the Death Knight and Warlock classes.

I'm certainly not saying that Blizzard could never do those classes, but Blizzard tends to build up class concepts before bringing them out as classes. For example, for me to believe a Bard class is possible in WoW, I would need to see some Bard heroes fighting for the Alliance and Horde. Prominent heroes who actively participate in the lore, and are known heroes to the major lore characters. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque for example are participants in the lore, and are known comrades to characters like Thrall, Jaina, Varian, and Rexxar. There are no such characters for Bards at all, and there is no history of Bard classes or heroes in WC period. I've heard this is the case because Metzen personally despised the class and I remember a developer saying that Bards are "too soft" for WoW.

Many of them you could fit in to be sure, but there's a few that really wouldn't fit quite as well. Bards for instance don't really fit into any of current classes without a strong amount of shoehorning. Samurai wouldn't really cleanly fit in with Rogues or Warriors, it would take some shuffling to properly fit in either class. Dancers have been used in a variety of RPGs, but don't really neatly fit into any currently playable class. A Gunslinger also doesn't really fit in with any current class...maybe Hunter, but that's more of a single weapon ranged class as opposed to two six shooters. Draconic classes don't really fit in either, no current class really seems to derive from the aspects.

Those are Final Fantasy classes. There's no basis for any of those classes in Warcraft, and those concepts don't have enough meat to be multi-spec classes. I'll repeat that Blizzard has rejected the playstyle of Bards and Dancers wholesale, so there's really no point to them being in the game. You can give the existing classes song-based abilities (and they have).

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So let’s say they are using WC3 strictly
Now let’s also keep in mind SL could have the tbc treatment in terms of those classes
No dark ranger could be due to the fact the hero npc was a main antagonist or that it wouldn’t make sense for us to have a class based around the antagonist.
No necromancer could be due to the fact that the story revolves around us fixing death and earning our way into the good graces of the shadowlands. We have no mass necromancer force and we haven’t really had any semblance of one outside of bwonsamdi.

Both classes could be added later based on the theme of the future expansion like necromancer in the case of a scourge based expansion since the story leads to that being an issue on Azeroth much how tbc was skipped over for a different opportunity

I think this could also be used to explain tinkers in the future

Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that Blizzard has no intention of ever making those concepts into classes? Instead of a Necromancer, Blizzard beefed up the Necromantic abilities in the Death Knight class. Instead of a Dark Ranger, Blizzard gave Hunters exclusive access to two Dark Ranger abilities. I also don't buy the notion that DRs weren't made available because Sylvanas was a bad guy, DKs were based on the main antagonist of WotLK.

If Blizzard gave Hunters Pocket Factory, Rock-It turret, and a Mech form, I would say that we definitely aren't getting a Tinker class.

We have no clue what class is coming. We have possible hints to everything be they solid or serious reaching
Dark ranger: the unique hunter gear and wailing arrow
Dragonsworn: black talon agents being placed through the story since WoD
Tinkers: island expedition team and a rise in tech use during BfA
Necromancer: we literally just checked out death realms and gained the support of the house of necromancers in SL

If people believe “class X won’t happen because of Y” then cool that’s always a possibility and it’s speculation but the moment it becomes “X won’t happen because Y and thus Z will definitely happen and if you disagree you are wrong” then that’s the point where the argument goes out the window and deserves mockery Cata

Again, I would remove DR and Necromancer from contention. You can place any ability for those concept in the Hunter and DK class respectively.

Dragonsworn are existing classes with draconic abilities. Mages for example have Dragon's Breath and Alexstraza's Fury, Warriors have Dragon's Roar, and Druids have Ysera's Tears. Blizzard has never demonstrated Dragonsworn to be a unique class with unique abilities. Which is why I believe that Blizzard is going to bring Undermine in alongside Dragon Isles in order to justify a Tinker class inclusion. If I'm wrong about that, feel free to mock me.

[Revamp Man]

It has been clear for a long time that the book has been delayed for the patch.

Yeah but people still wear blinders

[Catastrophy349]

Let's not forget on this beautiful Friday morning, the Jailer has been sneaking around the curtain since WC3! I strongly believe that his defeat will have a HUGE effect on 10.0. &_&

[Revamp Man]

Eh, I can't agree with that. Death Knights in WoW simply absorbed pretty much every ability from its fellow Undead WC3 units.

Unholy was simply a combination of Death Knight, Necromancer, Ghoul, Abomination, Crypt Lord, and Gargoyle concepts.
Frost was essentially the Lich in melee form, along with the Frost Wyrm unit.
Blood was an outgrowth of the DKs lore (Vampiric Runeblades), Ghoul's Cannibalism ability, Death Pact, and the Dreadlord's Vampiric Aura ability.

It's very easy to see how they built the DK class when you look at the totality of units in the Undead faction, and realize their goal was to bring a Necromantic class into WoW. It wasn't a departure, it was an expansion.



Here's the problem; There are no Bard heroes in WC3, TTRPG, or WoW, so you're not pulling from anything. In addition, the Bard playstyle (buffed-based Auras) were rejected by Blizzard in TBC, and we already have multiple classes using music/sound based abilities. Russell Brower (later Russell the Bard) for example was using Priest abilities in Cataclysm. Dragonsworn has been demonstrated to just be existing classes who swear allegiance to dragons. Druids and Mages for example are dragonsworn to Green, Blue, and Red dragons for example. Both classes also have Dragon abilities. Druids have Ysera's Tears, and Mages have Alexstraza's Fury.

Finally, any logical Necromancer ability can simply be absorbed by the Death Knight and Warlock classes.

I'm certainly not saying that Blizzard could never do those classes, but Blizzard tends to build up class concepts before bringing them out as classes. For example, for me to believe a Bard class is possible in WoW, I would need to see some Bard heroes fighting for the Alliance and Horde. Prominent heroes who actively participate in the lore, and are known heroes to the major lore characters. Gazlowe and Mekkatorque for example are participants in the lore, and are known comrades to characters like Thrall, Jaina, Varian, and Rexxar. There are no such characters for Bards at all, and there is no history of Bard classes or heroes in WC period. I've heard this is the case because Metzen personally despised the class and I remember a developer saying that Bards are "too soft" for WoW.



Those are Final Fantasy classes. There's no basis for any of those classes in Warcraft, and those concepts don't have enough meat to be multi-spec classes. I'll repeat that Blizzard has rejected the playstyle of Bards and Dancers wholesale, so there's really no point to them being in the game. You can give the existing classes song-based abilities (and they have).

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Wouldn't a more likely scenario be that Blizzard has no intention of ever making those concepts into classes? Instead of a Necromancer, Blizzard beefed up the Necromantic abilities in the Death Knight class. Instead of a Dark Ranger, Blizzard gave Hunters exclusive access to two Dark Ranger abilities. I also don't buy the notion that DRs weren't made available because Sylvanas was a bad guy, because DKs were based on the main antagonist of WotLK.

If Blizzard gave Hunters Pocket Factory, Rock-It turret, and a Mech form, I would say that we definitely aren't getting a Tinker class.



Again, I would remove DR and Necromancer from contention. You can place any ability for that concept in the Hunter and DK class respectively.

Dragonsworn are existing classes with draconic abilities. Mages for example have Dragon's Breath and Alexstraza's Fury, Warriors have Dragon's Roar, and Druids have Ysera's Tears. Blizzard has never demonstrated Dragonsworn to be a unique class with unique abilities. Which is why I believe that Blizzard is going to bring Undermine in alongside Dragon Isles in order to justify a Tinker class inclusion. If I'm wrong about that, feel free to mock me.

Wouldn’t that just be a class being included for a sub plot? I get that Deathwing had goblins make the slabs of metal on his chest but currently the only connection is an infinite dragon pirate which can be used to make multiple assumptions about multiple future stories.

I do agree if we go to undermine tinkers will happen

As for mocking you I leave that to your post history which can essentially be boiled down to
“This can’t be real…oh wait it goes against my ideas…it’s definitely real.”

Also comparing some of those classes to a Dragonsworn in terms of abilities is the same thing that others do to tinkers
Shamans have a fire totem so tinkers can’t happen because it’s the same as a rock-it turret

[Fahrad Wagner]

Let's not forget on this beautiful Friday morning, the Jailer has been bruteforced into lore retconning all the events that happened since WC3 and making these allegedly part of this 5D chess plan sneaking around the curtain since WC3! I strongly believe that his defeat will have a HUGE effect on 10.0. &_&

Fixed that for you pal.

[Skildar]

I do think they've gotten considerably better in recent years when it comes to hiding things, but I still don't think it's cool to actually spoil full plot points. I'm mostly okay with meta-spoilers like "we're going back to Tirisfal and Calia is involved" or "they added revamped assets for x" and think that's cool and it generates hype, but "here's the full dialog Blizzard accidentally decrypted in 9.2.5 of what happens in less than a week" is just rude towards both players and devs. Sure, it's incompetent to decrypt that content early but I don't think it's an automatic excuse to release that. Same goes for decryption keys of major cinematics being found a long time before they're supposed to release. There's no good reason outside of "yay clicks/money" to post that kind of content early.

I've always been on this side of the table. Spoilers have gotten out of hand as a big part of the community consumes them without fully experimenting the game and as such experience these moments out of context.

It drives them directly into this toxic behaviour as viewing any story and narration as weak and without any flavour.

If I show you the end of memento without the rest of the movie you would just feel that this is quite bland.

I'm quite surprised that Blizzard's never put any legal team after Zam/wowhead and make an example out of them. Because they've been doing shitty journalism and pushing false information, false analysis and spoiling on their front page for years

[Pheraz]

I've always been on this side of the table. Spoilers have gotten out of hand as a big part of the community consumes them without fully experimenting the game and as such experience these moments out of context.

It drives them directly into this toxic behaviour as viewing any story and narration as weak and without any flavour.

If I show you the end of memento without the rest of the movie you would just feel that this is quite bland.

I'm quite surprised that Blizzard's never put any legal team after Zam/wowhead and make an example out of them. Because they've been doing shitty journalism and pushing false information, false analysis and spoiling on their front page for years

Probably because they link to wowhead from their own help support systems and wowhead alone replaced many of their initial support army.
But I agree, even if I play the game anyways, those spoilers are not good for the game

[Revamp Man]

Let's not forget on this beautiful Friday morning, the Jailer has been sneaking around the curtain since WC3! I strongly believe that his defeat will have a HUGE effect on 10.0. &_&

The only thing I like about the jailer is that he is probably the most straightforward villain we have ever had

No manipulation
No deceit
Just straight up “I’m going to fuck up reality”
But then we have him recruiting Bella from Twilight
Heck him recruiting Sylvanas was essentially “you will join me when you see these signs”
Then he made those signs happen which was actually genius and was the only time we saw him actually directly deceive his minion

[username993720]

Beats me. After the Tinker and Alchemist are absorbed, there's really no WC3 heroes left. You could drop any open WC3 abilities and concepts into the existing class lineup at that point. I'd just like to believe that they would continue to put out new classes even after the "Tinker". However, there is a high chance that they could stop there and begin to expand the existing classes (glyphs, new specs, class skins, etc.).

Wrong again.

Dark rangers weren’t added because they are just hunters, especially with Sylvanas’ bow and quiver.
(Just like Mountain Kings & Troll berserkers etc are warriors, wardens are rogues, etc)

Weird, because Rogues also got her Dagger. Are they Rogues too then? Or, do you not actually know much about them?

It doesn't, but with Blizzard, nothing remains out of reach

That being said, Mag'har means Uncorrupted, as in literally those who did not drink Mannoroth's blood. You could still become a warlock decades after that, and not consume the said green juice

You can't have your blood tainted by fel magic. Meaning, you can't practice Warlockism. That's the whole point of Savage Blood.

You know, every single race has at least 1 or more classes that heavily align with that race's values, culture and lore that let's players emerse in such fantasies or be like certain lore figures

Human: mages, warriors, paladins, DKs

Dwarves: hunters, shamans

Nelves: druids, hunters, hell even mages(highborn), DH

Draenie: priests, paladins

Worgen: druids, warriors

KT humans: shaman, druids, priests, mages

Velvet: mages, warlocks, priests, hunters

LFD: paladins, priests

DID: sam as regular dwarves

Orcs: warriors, shamans, warlocks

Troll: hunter, shaman

Taurean: druids, shaman, hunters

Forsaken: death knights, rogues, hunters

Blood elves: hunter, mage, warlock

Pandaren: Monk

Maghar: warrior, shaman

Zanda: shaman, priest

NB: mages, warlocks

HMT: see taurean

Vulpera: rogues, hunters

Now obviously combos not included here are viable as well but there's just something about those that resonate well given the lore.of.each race and significant lore figures.

Now can you say mechagnomes, gnomes, and gobs have the same? Nearly every single significant lore gnome, gob, and MG is a tinker. This is partly why their pop numbers are low.

Not a single player for those races can truly play as what those races embody, mechanical inginuity.

Tinkers are the last archetype wow needs to feel complete when it comes to playable classes. No other class can fill in that void.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ials-and-lore)

Oh? What would be the other one?

You have a short-term memory. I've linked it to you before:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-the-future

[Revamp Man]

Fixed that for you pal.

He made Sargeras stab the planet
I wish that was a joke but no

[Marlamin]

I've always been on this side of the table. Spoilers have gotten out of hand as a big part of the community consumes them without fully experimenting the game and as such experience these moments out of context.

It drives them directly into this toxic behaviour as viewing any story and narration as weak and without any flavour.

If I show you the end of memento without the rest of the movie you would just feel that this is quite bland.

I'm quite surprised that Blizzard's never put any legal team after Zam/wowhead and make an example out of them. Because they've been doing shitty journalism and pushing false information, false analysis and spoiling on their front page for years

Blizz definitely got upset at Wowhead for posting that cinematic from a while back way too early. Blizz only really cares about truly big plot points such as the one from next week. In this case Wowhead contacted Blizz beforehand and wouldn't have posted it (nor would MMOC have) unless it got traction elsewhere, which it sadly did on Twitter after someone else found it. Other than that, I agree that WoW news sites should be less in the business of posting spoilers, but alas, that is the business Blizzard has allowed to flourish.

[Varodoc]

I cannot wait for 10.0, finally the Ren'dorei will get the spotlight they have been entitled to for years. You can't imagine how long I've waited for this. I already loooooooove 10.0!

[Raetary]

He made Sargeras stab the planet
I wish that was a joke but no

For context:

https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...eb2x&context=3

Zovaal, apparently, prophesized everything that happened between legion and SL.

[draugril]

I cannot wait for 10.0, finally the Ren'dorei will get the spotlight they have been entitled to for years. You can't imagine how long I've waited for this. I already loooooooove 10.0!

This is all I can think of when I see your posts:



Tinted purple, of course.

[Catastrophy349]

Fixed that for you pal.

I was 100% trolling when I made this post! Thanks for fixing it the right way.

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This is all I can think of when I see your posts:



Tinted purple, of course.

Great image! Agreed!

[Raetary]

You can't imagine how long I've waited for this.

Actually, we can very well imagine it.
Considering you post about non-stop, every single damn day of the week.

[Teriz]

Wouldn’t that just be a class being included for a sub plot? I get that Deathwing had goblins make the slabs of metal on his chest but currently the only connection is an infinite dragon pirate which can be used to make multiple assumptions about multiple future stories.

The other connections are the Timeless Mechanical Dragonling, Gallywix making a deal with the Brokers in Shadowlands, and the history of Goblins working with Black Dragons, including having a hand in the creation of the Demon Soul. Everything else is Blizzard just dropping hints (Steamscale, Wrathion, Dragon Pack, MotherLODE, Tinkers, etc.). Im not sure how much of a sub plot it can be, since Blizzard controls the lore, and Undermine could potentially be a new continent instead of just a zone. I could see a scenario where Undermine and Gadgetzan are the initial focus, then we shift over to the Dragon Isles later in the expansion.

Also comparing some of those classes to a Dragonsworn in terms of abilities is the same thing that others do to tinkers
Shamans have a fire totem so tinkers can’t happen because it’s the same as a rock-it turret

You’re equating abilities that simply are not the same. DK’s Raise Dead for example is the Necromancer’s Raise Dead ability from WC3. Fire Nova or Magma totem isn’t Rock it Turret. DKs got Sacrificial Pit in Shadowlands, and that’s a pure Necromancer ability.

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You have a short-term memory. I've linked it to you before:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-the-future

The only continent on that list is the Ogre continent on Draenor.