Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[username993720]

Well, I'm also saying that because there are no lands between Kalimdor and the Malestrom, while there are three on the opposite side.

That's the same argument as mail-wearing classes. Blizzard has added two leather-wearing ones since vanilla. They don't follow the rules of shortage of mail classes, or in your case, map space. They just adjust it every expansion.

So the only continent on this list is Kalimdor from thousands of years ago?

*facepalm*

Have you fogotten "the Broken Isles"?

[Sondrelk]

November 29th. So it got pushed back several months.

We don't actually know for sure whether it was delayed because of spoiling the ending of 9.2 or not, we just assume so. There is another explanation that is maybe even more likely that hinges on a global paper shortage which hit most of the book publishing industry last year.

If we assume teh book is just a bunch of rationalizations for Sylvanas being UltraHitler in BfA, and then much more reasonable in SL then this book really could have come out long before 9.2, just to give the players a softer landing into her sudden redemption arc in 9.2.

[PhillyCheese]

We don't actually know for sure whether it was delayed because of spoiling the ending of 9.2 or not, we just assume so. There is another explanation that is maybe even more likely that hinges on a global paper shortage which hit most of the book publishing industry last year.

If we assume teh book is just a bunch of rationalizations for Sylvanas being UltraHitler in BfA, and then much more reasonable in SL then this book really could have come out long before 9.2, just to give the players a softer landing into her sudden redemption arc in 9.2.

I think it has been leaked that the book ends with her working in the Maw post-Judgement which points to this always intending to release after 9.2. Unless the chapter was added during the delay.

Anyways, I won't be reading it, and I'm just looking forward to the fans moving onto 10.0 to hate/love and for the Sylvanas horse to stop being beaten by the community.

[KainneAbsolute]

While that particular reason is definitely a good indication of the community's toxicity, it isn't necessarily new. My reasons for getting out are based on my experience over the last ~13 years of doing this as well as a lot of self-reflection. While the increasingly negative attitude from the community towards singular devs as well as members of the community council (which I'm a part of) have sped up the timetable of me leaving, it's not by definition "the reason" as I've been planning on leaving since late 2020/early 2021.

It's hard to put into words without going into too much detail on a personal level and off-topic, but I feel like it's better for me personally to quit datamining (and by extension the maintenance of various public tools). The full list of exact reasons/motives/context I'll likely never talk about publicly as a lot of it is very personal, but know I've been thinking about this for years at this point.

Thank you a lot for your work! Especially for someone like me who loves spoilers. But not to incentivize attacks against devs. I like them because sometimes you see how creative choices vary over time.

I participate in many spoiler communities, and it seems some companies listen to spoilers communities because they are like additional test audiences and theories appear when they face incomplete spoilers or contradictory versions. Sometimes the community learns that the brand changed its decisions (and there is evidence of filmed scenes). Did the community have an influence? I don't know.

Obviously, we have to enjoy the execution because many details are missing. In that case, I agree that having full dialogues ruins the game experience because Blizzard is not going to recreate dialogues, or have fake cutscenes.

Sometimes I wonder if Blizzard changed a decision based upon a spoiler discussion...

[Shadochi]

We don't actually know for sure whether it was delayed because of spoiling the ending of 9.2 or not, we just assume so. There is another explanation that is maybe even more likely that hinges on a global paper shortage which hit most of the book publishing industry last year.

If we assume teh book is just a bunch of rationalizations for Sylvanas being UltraHitler in BfA, and then much more reasonable in SL then this book really could have come out long before 9.2, just to give the players a softer landing into her sudden redemption arc in 9.2.

Well I'm basing this off of her tweet that they wanted to time those 2 events

[Teriz]

That's the same argument as mail-wearing classes. Blizzard has added two leather-wearing ones since vanilla. They don't follow the rules of shortage of mail classes, or in your case, map space. They just adjust it every expansion.

There’s a difference between releasing a new leather class because it fits the lore of the new class despite an over abundance of existing leather classes, and purposely placing new land masses on one side of the maelstrom.

*facepalm*

Have you fogotten "the Broken Isles"?

Which is not a continent.

[ercarp]

I wonder if you think calling developers incompetent is an attack, if you argument it. I call it "well deserved".

I mean.. noone threatens to send the vultures. It simply is criticism. And yes, i am well aware they cannot stand criticism. But that is actually not the problem of those who voice their opinion.

Only a fanatic calls every controversial feedback "an attack".

Stop framing criticism as "attacks".

Obviously death threats and the like have no place here or anywhere else and I don't think anyone condones them. But I'm 100% going to be calling out the developers and writers for the stupid shit they pull because most of it is inexcusable. I've been watching my favorite game slowly die at the hands of incompetent and/or uncaring developers for almost a decade now and it's seriously depressing. I want this game to be great, but when it comes to turning a blind eye to Blizzard's poor management of my favorite franchise, that's not something I can do anymore lol.

That said, I am also aware that most decisions at the company don't actually come from a single person but rather as a result of teams coming together to brainstorm ideas. But they also have lead roles that should do a much better job at directing the game in the right direction. Ion is the Game Director so he should stop directing the game down the drain with the anti-fun time-waste systems he keeps designing, and Danuser is the Lead Narrative Designer, so he should do a better job of leading his team of writers into not writing garbage, plot hole filled Sylvanas fanfiction.

[draugril]

This was buried much too quickly. The Ren'dorei and Stimplyon additions are simply inspired. I only provided the seed - you saw to it that the joke would blossom beautifully.

[Lahis]

Exactly. People didn't like Cataclysm because it got 1 new zone in southern Kalimdor, 1 new zone in northern Kalimdor, 1 new zone underwater, 1 new zone in the Eastern Kingdoms, it was too chaotic, sparse, random.

Here, the Dragon Isles can be neatly featured in the map of a revamped Lordaeron subcontinent, just like Nazjatar and Mechagon were neatly and concisely featured in the map of the Kul Tiras subcontinent:

Mechagon is actually on Kul Tiras though. You can swim there from the mainland.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is not a continent.

For gameplay, it is.

[Teriz]

For gameplay, it is.

I wasn’t talking about gameplay though.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I wonder if you think calling developers incompetent is an attack, if you argument it. I call it "well deserved".

I mean.. noone threatens to send the vultures. It simply is criticism. And yes, i am well aware they cannot stand criticism. But that is actually not the problem of those who voice their opinion.

Only a fanatic calls every controversial feedback "an attack".

Stop framing criticism as "attacks".

He's not talking about criticism in specific—he's talking about actual, personal harassment. Personal attacks =/= criticism, and most of it tends to be repetitive, nonconstructive, and aggressive. If you want constructive criticism, that's already been delivered by several people, including most of the 1623 pages of this thread.

Criticism has a few specific components, and I myself can often be rather vitriolic with mine, but I don't think that even vitriolic criticism is on the same level as some people do. You forget you're dealing with World of Warcraft, which is host to many NEETs, trolls and people without much in the way of actual priorities—they will obviously resort to disproportionate measures when something in any perceived way threatens that which they and they alone are so mind-numbingly invested in.

[Varodoc]

Mechagon is actually on Kul Tiras though. You can swim there from the mainland.

The same can be done with the Dragon Isles, don't you think? The Isles have always been shown to be very close to the Lordaeron's shoreline.

Basically I think:

1) That the Dragon Isles will be featured alongside Lordaeron;
2) That, much like Kul Tiras and Zandalar, the Dragon Isles are not "big" and "diverse" enough to carry an entire expansion, SINGULARLY.

And sure, you might say, "but how? there's so much variety with all the aspects!", sure, but it's all stuff we have already seen many times, especially in WotLK. Just like Kul Tiras and Zandalar are just another human and troll civilizations which, as a result, don't offer much in terms of variety.

Hence why neither Kul Tiras nor Zandalar were deemed enough to carry an expansion individually. Dragon Isles will suffer the same fate, and be featured alongside a revamped Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas.

[PhillyCheese]

The same can be done with the Dragon Isles, don't you think? The Isles have always been shown to be very close to the Lordaeron's shoreline.

That's implying they will be a continent and not spread out over the place like the Cata zones.

There's a 50/50 it'll be a new continent or the Isles are all over the place and include some areas we have already heard about like Tel'abim (see: Flying Monkeys)

[AOL Instant Messenger]

That is the point, both Hazzikostas and Danuser are the top level devs in charge. They have to be capable to stand criticism. And if all they create is horrible world content. retconned lore, unrewarding gameplay, a bunch of reused assets and badly implemented borrowed power and time gates, and if they only adress a few minorities of their players and if they repeat that over and over and over again, it is valid to call them incompetent.

I don't disagree with this, either—they're fucking horrendous as the jobs they're doing, and that's a shame, because Hazzikostas is an excellent raid designer and Danuser is a pretty good quest designer. I'm fairly certain the latter was at least partially responsible for the pretty well-liked Silverpine questing experience. They're just in the wrong places—victims, I think, of the Peter Principle. Again, however, you seem not to realize precisely how NEET-y and mind-numbingly hyperinvested fans of this franchise can get about certain plot points they don't like. Look at some of the discussions on, say, Teldrassil and tell me it isn't cringeworthy and insane how much people are legitimately acting like the Burning of Teldrassil was a real-life war crime.

[Varodoc]

That's implying they will be a continent and not spread out over the place like the Cata zones.

There's a 50/50 it'll be a new continent or the Isles are all over the place and include some areas we have already heard about like Tel'abim (see: Flying Monkeys)

Please, just let Tel'abim die already. Let's not waste our time with the meme joke banana isle.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

??????????

There's literally a book about her coming out right now. People will be talking about her for much longer than a week lmao.

This is assuming that there is anything to talk about in the book. It seems adequately-written from what little I've seen, but it mostly seems to just be Golden trying her best to vicariously salvage Danuser's trainwreck of a plot.

[PhillyCheese]

Please, just let Tel'abim die already. Let's not waste our time with the meme joke banana isle.

Considering how bloodthirsty ass rage vicious the fans get over any original content added to WoW, I think Tel'abim will be mandated because it is Old Thing We Know. Same as Plunder Isle.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Very well:

Where did that overgrown Crusade banner come from? It looks quite pretty.

[Raetary]

I would personally love a World of Warcraft: Age of Potassium set on Tel'abim

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Well, it is still valid to criticize that horrible story, tho. And Sylvanas getting redeemed after farming a million souls in the maw. I mean, if they really want lore aware players to continue their game, they have to be way more capable to create a well planned storyline rather than coming to a point where they have to retcon parts just to be able to bring up an even bigger fish (Lich King => Jailer, Titans => first ones).. They should make a raw concept at start where the story is going to, and not retcon it based on the current trend in gameplay.

I don't disagree with that at all. I was just making a point about how people will 100% harass the developers in ways which are disproportionate. Of course this story is horrendously-constructed and they certainly have no clue how they're going to map out the expansions from hereon out. They're not doing a good job at all, and that they deserve criticism for—I simply maintain that it is wise to not get involved with the more melodramatic side of that, as Marlamin decided to avoid.