Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hellspawn]

Could be anything. Anduin has a few different models that are visually indistinguishable... yet different. There's actually another encrypted Anduin model as well, I think.

Maybe she wears the crown of wills now

[Hitei]

I wonder how hard would it be for blizzard to not ship voice lines (specific or all) and cinematics in the PTR. even encrypted, and instead release it in hotfixes on the reset that it becomes available

Playing with fire when it comes to likelihood of bugs and problems.

[Shadochi]

Playing with fire when it comes to likelihood of bugs and problems.

Would it cause bugs tho? I mean those are specific cases that they can easily test on their own beforehand and its not actual quests or something being not shipped. It would help them keep the story secret. Just a thought I had since a lot of stuff ends up getting datamined

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I agree to a degree. But just imagine people invested years, even decades, in playing the game. If it is not worth all the effort people put in it anymore suddenly it is not simply just a loss of a fun game, but also a loss of something that was part of your life for quite a long time. Something you even planned schedules based on. Something you met people you played together with which simply left as the game became what it is nowadays.

Fair enough—I'm not trying to categorize everyone with investment in this game as a NEET or anything, of course. I myself have grown up with this game and am quite attached, especially adding Asperger's into the mix—I obviously am prone to defer to it kindly and am rather frustrated with the way that it's dwindled in popularity in quality in just about every way, as well.

As much i absolutely think that attacking the developers with threats is a wrong way to go, as much i want the developers to understand what they actually destroyed. They turned a part of the lifes of many into a big dissapointment, simply for the sole reason to turn a game into a cash cow.

That's a good enough point—I do have to have some sympathy, since capitalism is difficult to work with, but I also do agree that there's something pretty seedy about Blizzard's business practices. They've mistreated and sexually-harassed their employees, busted unions, and I'm fairly certain they're not even working the system fairly. I think there's some moral hazard at pretty high levels, with the executives ripping off the shareholders to some degree. This is not uncommon at all and the writing's on the wall—they're clearly thinking more in terms of short-term profit than long-term growth. Everyone and their dog has identified this by now, and this is part of what perturbs me.

I think that the game being a cash cow isn't the bad part at all—a company's got to make money, and I sympathize. But ethical business practices are important, too—I'm honestly more disgusted with the union-busting than anything, and I think that the state of the game can be salvaged. If not through this, I trust Microsoft to have the capacity to retool the series into something better. Microsoft isn't the most ethical of companies, but as far as companies go, they're fairly "honest" in the sense that they tend to deliver and be very stable, unlike other, more unstable and moral hazard-prone companies. I am interested to see what they do it.

Why do that many people return for every new expac even if they left the game many times before? Because they hope the developers will make a game again. And in the last two expacs they simply always got disappointed. And AFAIK the next expac will not be different.

As I said, I won't fret much—I think that it is important to keep in mind that even if the game is a fairly large part of people's lives, it's certainly less important than other things, such as acquaintances and associates, your career, family etc. However, even accounting for this, I've honestly been more cautious to say "game ded" than I used to be—whereas I was previously pretty convinced WoW was being flushed down the toilet, slowly but surely, it does seem like the presence of Microsoft may help keep it alive.

I'm not saying at all that Microsoft is going to be kind or ethical—I'm as suspicious of them as any other company, but they're at least a very good company when it comes to providing a service and acquiring long-term profits. They clearly want more people to be playing WoW, so I think it will survive in that respect. Whether or not it's truly a good game is up for debate, but I'm sure they'll at least make it something more appealing than the current system.

[Shadochi]

But I assume it would not be as easy as just deleting those files from the directory on that branch and merging them later

[AOL Instant Messenger]

As long as the next expansion doesnt contain dwelling in underground cities/caves for midgets and the cursed T class, I will be pretty darned happy with whatever comes next.

I'm honestly not sure why people are so hostile to the Tinker idea. I'm not going to say I wouldn't prefer something cooler, like a Lich or Dragon, but I do think it's true that they're an iconic part of Warcraft lore and don't deserve the hate they get. This seems more to be a response to Teriz's fascination with them than anything else, and I frankly would be pretty satisfied. I get it may just be different strokes for different folks, but I think there are still plenty that would be happy with Tinkers.

I do admit I'd prefer something more serious, though, like a Mag'har-style Mechanic or Draenic-style Artificer.

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Maybe she wears the crown of wills now

Doubt it. It's already in Pelagos' possession and it is aesthetically very incompatible with Calia's design.

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Could be anything. Anduin has a few different models that are visually indistinguishable... yet different. There's actually another encrypted Anduin model as well, I think.

Haven't seen the textures, so I can't glean anything for certain from it, but it might also include some kind of change to her clothing to better fit her role as Queen of the Forsaken. Could include more Forsaken or Lordaeroni imagery than her plain Priest outfit now, or it could at least include some kind of epaulets or something.

[Raetary]

I do admit I'd prefer something more serious, though, like a Mag'har-style Mechanic or Draenic-style Artificer.

I mean, a Tinker will absolutely include both of those things.
If we ever get Tinkers, Blizzard is definitely going to expand the classes identity to include most/all engineering archetypes.

Just sticking to Gnomes and Gobs is not gonna happen.

[Marlamin]

I wonder how hard would it be for blizzard to not ship voice lines (specific or all) and cinematics in the PTR. even encrypted, and instead release it in hotfixes on the reset that it becomes available

They can't hotfix files/assets yet, there's signs of them working on that and we might see it at some point, but it hasn't been used/seen yet.

Haven't seen the textures, so I can't glean anything for certain from it, but it might also include some kind of change to her clothing to better fit her role as Queen of the Forsaken. Could include more Forsaken or Lordaeroni imagery than her plain Priest outfit now, or it could at least include some kind of epaulets or something.

Not much to see in the textures, we can see those textures because they're 100% identical to the current ones she has. The ones that aren't identical are the ones we can't see/don't know about. A change to her clothing/skin is likely because we dont have her regular texture anywhere. But also, they could have pre-empted our datamining by changing one pixel just so the texture wouldn't show as being Calia's.

[PhillyCheese]

Not all of her textures are the same, so there's likely something different about it visually. They don't need new models to change NPC names/titles and such.

The texture sheet I saw looked identical. Is there maybe two models of her that appear? That could point to her getting Spookified.

[Teriz]

I mean, a Tinker will absolutely include both of those things.
If we ever get Tinkers, Blizzard is definitely going to expand the classes identity to include most/all engineering archetypes.

Just sticking to Gnomes and Gobs is not gonna happen.

I agree. More than likely it won’t even be called Tinker, but something more generalized like Mechanic, Inventor, Gadgeteer, Mekgineer, Technician, or Mechanist. Same thing happened to Brewmasters with the Monk class.

That said, there’s always a chance it’s restricted to the small races.

[Varx]

I'm honestly not sure why people are so hostile to the Tinker idea. I'm not going to say I wouldn't prefer something cooler, like a Lich or Dragon, but I do think it's true that they're an iconic part of Warcraft lore and don't deserve the hate they get. This seems more to be a response to Teriz's fascination with them than anything else, and I frankly would be pretty satisfied. I get it may just be different strokes for different folks, but I think there are still plenty that would be happy with Tinkers.

I do admit I'd prefer something more serious, though, like a Mag'har-style Mechanic or Draenic-style Artificer.

People are also salty that the lack of a new class completely obliterated any chance for Necro and DR for 10.0. And since that pretty much guarantees tinkers as there's nothing else with high priority, well there you go.

That not taking every other hint into consideration mind you, like Gallywix in tazavesh meeting with brokers.

[Marlamin]

The texture sheet I saw looked identical. Is there maybe two models of her that appear? That could point to her getting Spookified.

The texture sheet you saw was a normal/specular map, that one matches her regular model's texture identically which is why it's visible in the encrypted set of files. The texture before it which is encrypted (likely her regular skin texture) is a few MB bigger than her regular skin texture so it -might- just be higher definition model of Calia for an in-game cutscene.

[Zankai27]

I mean, a Tinker will absolutely include both of those things.
If we ever get Tinkers, Blizzard is definitely going to expand the classes identity to include most/all engineering archetypes.

Just sticking to Gnomes and Gobs is not gonna happen.

If this is why there are so many people here with "anti Tinker" sentiment, then what the hell? They have so much cool tech in the game they would absolutely expand the classes' identity to include exactly the ones mentioned; the coolest thing about the Mag'har is the carrying forward of Iron Horde tech, and the Lightforged have tech as most of their own unique identity.

Falsely believing the class has to stick to WC3's definition of Tinker is only something a certain unnamed individual around here does.

Tinker island expedition team does a pretty good job of "not feeling like a jokey WC3 Tinker" as well. It's guns, robots, science healing and mechs. What's weird about that, yknow?

[Foolicious]

I'm honestly not sure why people are so hostile to the Tinker idea. I'm not going to say I wouldn't prefer something cooler, like a Lich or Dragon, but I do think it's true that they're an iconic part of Warcraft lore and don't deserve the hate they get. This seems more to be a response to Teriz's fascination with them than anything else, and I frankly would be pretty satisfied. I get it may just be different strokes for different folks, but I think there are still plenty that would be happy with Tinkers.

I do admit I'd prefer something more serious, though, like a Mag'har-style Mechanic or Draenic-style Artificer.

Because most people think of gazlowe or engineering when thinking about tinkers. Which is honestly a boring concept but most importantly isn't serious enough for the player to feel important and badass. The engineer from gw2 is a great example how to make a unique and fun (and flashy/cool looking) tinker class.

[Marlamin]

The texture sheet you saw was a normal/specular map, that one matches her regular model's texture identically which is why it's visible in the encrypted set of files. The texture before it which is encrypted (likely her regular skin texture) is a few MB bigger than her regular skin texture so it -might- just be higher definition model of Calia for an in-game cutscene.

Also, the textures for the lordaeron crest shield that was added to retail are adjacent to the encrypted Calia textures added in 9.2.5 ID wise. Definitely a huge tinfoil, but still notable. Both were working on very recently though so might be unrelated.

[Calfredd]

People are also salty that the lack of a new class completely obliterated any chance for Necro and DR for 10.0. And since that pretty much guarantees tinkers as there's nothing else with high priority, well there you go.

You and Teriz are full of it. It's posts like this that make people dislike tinkers.

[PhillyCheese]

Also, the textures for the lordaeron crest shield that was added to retail are adjacent to the encrypted Calia textures added in 9.2.5 ID wise. Definitely a huge tinfoil, but still notable. Both were working on very recently though so might be unrelated.

I’m still wondering if they’ll swap the Forsaken iconography to Lordaeron, or Calia really will be some Khadgar neutral figure and Forsaken will be reduced to a ragtag group like the Darkspear.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Because most people think of gazlowe or engineering when thinking about tinkers. Which is honestly a boring concept but most importantly isn't serious enough for the player to feel important and badass. The engineer from gw2 is a great example how to make a unique and fun (and flashy/cool looking) tinker class.

I definitely sympathize with that to some degree—thinking of the aesthetics, I don't like the image of yellow flames and light steel, and even a dark and gritty steel with more orange flames would look kind of boring. I think the best industrial technology aesthetic in WoW is the Mag'har, who have steel that looks fairly pretty to look at and reddish flames that make things look more magical and glowing. I think imagining the flames as reddish as opposed to orange or yellow is what would give them a sufficiently-distinct art style. The rockets would also have to be a little more ethereal and reddish-looking. That could make it very appealing, I'd say.

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Not much to see in the textures, we can see those textures because they're 100% identical to the current ones she has. The ones that aren't identical are the ones we can't see/don't know about. A change to her clothing/skin is likely because we dont have her regular texture anywhere. But also, they could have pre-empted our datamining by changing one pixel just so the texture wouldn't show as being Calia's.

Fair enough—that latter suggestion seems a tad too clever for Blizzard, though. I think if I were to take a guess, it's some kind of addition of Lordaeroni or Forsaken imagery to maximize her new involvement in her appearance. She definitely looks aesthetically-unique among the Forsaken right now, and this could be something to tone that down.

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If this is why there are so many people here with "anti Tinker" sentiment, then what the hell? They have so much cool tech in the game they would absolutely expand the classes' identity to include exactly the ones mentioned; the coolest thing about the Mag'har is the carrying forward of Iron Horde tech, and the Lightforged have tech as most of their own unique identity.

Falsely believing the class has to stick to WC3's definition of Tinker is only something a certain unnamed individual around here does.

Tinker island expedition team does a pretty good job of "not feeling like a jokey WC3 Tinker" as well. It's guns, robots, science healing and mechs. What's weird about that, yknow?

I think that the Mag'har are my favorite incarnation of industrial technology in WoW—I'd also like to try a Lightforged Artificer, but I do think that Artificers and Tinkers have too distinct of an identity from one another that would sort of make them diminish one another's uniqueness, and only one can be a class—it would almost certainly be the latter, since it's more iconic. I could see them sharing a class if it were mech-based, though, since the Lightforged do have mechas that could certainly share mechanics with upgraded Shredders or Crowd Pummelers. Vigilants are also possible, but smaller robots I don't see being compatible, nor do the Lightforged use turrets (though they do use artillery) or rockets.

[PhillyCheese]

I seems a tad too clever for Blizzard, though. I think if I were to take a guess, it's some kind of addition of Lordaeroni or Forsaken imagery to maximize her new involvement in her appearance. She definitely looks aesthetically-unique among the Forsaken right now, and this could be something to tone that down.

Forsaken colors are purple and grey as of BFA and 9.2.5 if they really rebuilt Brill into that Wrath design. I can’t see Calia ditching the Lordaeron gold for that, but I CAN see her skin cracking or something similar.

I was honestly shocked to see that they are keeping the old Forsaken aesthetic.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

You and Teriz are full of it. It's posts like this that make people dislike tinkers.

To be fair, they have something of a point if you want to limit it to Warcraft III classes—we're definitely not getting Dark Rangers anytime soon as a unique class with their most prominent member now being MIA for the foreseeable future and Necromancers seem unlikely, as well. I could theoretically see a Lich class being very fun and interesting, but I don't know what could justify it.