Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

Is creating completely new content that difficult? I've already created new concepts before and am currently working on a First Ones-inspired class, but I'm not sharing any details until I'm done with it, and not really sure I'd want to share it with certain people because of gatekeeping and toxicity.

Look, honestly dude, you have got to understand that new concepts get made all the time, but I hope you also have enough self-awareness to understand why I'm not going to start listing them off to you. Please, PLEASE understand this. You're honestly awful to have these class discussions with, even if I admire your work at keeping class discussion going in general. However, any thread you're ever in (that isn't your own) that's about class ideas it's literally the same denigrating thing every time. If you want to hear people's ideas you've gotta earn it.

However, we’re talking about a game that has adhered strictly to WC3 based heroes for almost 20 years. So while new concepts can certainly be created, WoW isn’t simply isn’t a game that really does that. They have been highly conservative with their class inclusions, and there’s zero evidence that they’re looking to deviate from that model.

[Shadochi]

Can you name a single Dragon Knight or Dragonsworn in lore to base such a class off of?



Enhancement Shaman.



Shadow Priests.

Shadow priests are way off psionic powers.

But I was answering a reply to my post saying they should develop NEW class concepts, not something based off X character in WoW/WC. And I mentioned that they have lore for dragons to be able to pull a Knight/Sworn class. Not that there is one ingame.

For Enchancement shamans, while not truly what I envision a battle mage is (a clothie using abjuration arcane to protect himself and enhancing his blows with magic), it is in some ways a melee class that relies on magic to empower attacks. I missed that, my bad.

[Therougetitan]

There does not need to be a precedent for the next class. Blizzard has broken precedents with almost every expansion. People apply arbitrary rules to what Blizzard can do. Almost every WoW expac name was argued that it couldn't be real because the naming convention wasn't done before. People didn't think they'd add demon hunters. People didn't think they'd add allied races. People didn't think we would go two expacs in a row with no class because of what happened with expansions before.

Trying to see a trend for numbers and forecasting like trying to figure out dates makes sense. For features it doesn't apply. Rules can be broken when they try something new.

[Teriz]

The entire Timekeeper faction and especially their preceding concept, the Bronze Watchers.

Yeah, Dragonsworn are established classes that acquire draconic abilities via their closeness with dragons. The Bronze watchers are made up of Hunters, Warriors, and others. It’s really no different than Druids having Ysera’s Tears or Mages having Alexstraza’s Fury.

[Zankai27]

However, we’re talking about a game that has adhered strictly to WC3 based heroes for almost 20 years. So while new concepts can certainly be created, WoW isn’t simply isn’t a game that really does that. They have been highly conservative with their class inclusions, and there’s zero evidence that they’re looking to deviate from that model.

It's kind of amazing how you can completely skip over the point of what I was actually saying. Every time.

At least I can sit with the knowledge that I actually know members of the dev team and how they operate. Popularity is what really sells class ideas. So creating ideas and getting people to see them and talk about them is what gets things out there.

[Teriz]

Shadow priests are way off psionic powers.

Mind Flay, Mind Sear, Dark Thoughts, Mindbender, Searing Nightmare, Mind Spike, Mind Control, Psychic Scream, Psychic Horror, Mind Vision, Mind Soothe, Psychic Link, etc. Since their abilities are derived from the Old Gods, they similarly deal with mental manipulation, control, and madness.

But I was answering a reply to my post saying they should develop NEW class concepts, not something based off X character in WoW/WC. And I mentioned that they have lore for dragons to be able to pull a Knight/Sworn class. Not that there is one ingame.

Which is fine. My question would be what exactly would such a class bring to the table that an existing class could not bring? We have plenty of melee, and we even have melee that already imbues their abilities with fire. Compound this with a lack of an example of such a class in a lore character or hero, and you have the problem that many "outsider" concepts have when they're considered for WoW.

[Syegfryed]

Throwback to when people said Demon Hunters would never happen

i had prints of the guy leaking legion saying DH would be playable and people were saying this, that they would never happen

There was a guy who disappeared from the forums in shame after denying in every speculaton thread, until things cool out, god times

Right now, i think only 2 classes are rly possible, if we know what the next expansion will be about dragons, and its either dragon related or tinker. Yeah hates gona hate.

If, we stretch a bit and is not entirely based on dragons i can see bards, but no other class besides those 3.

[MCMLXXXII]

And again, the t class is sucking out all the air...

[Teriz]

There does not need to be a precedent for the next class. Blizzard has broken precedents with almost every expansion. People apply arbitrary rules to what Blizzard can do. Almost every WoW expac name was argued that it couldn't be real because the naming convention wasn't done before. People didn't think they'd add demon hunters. People didn't think they'd add allied races. People didn't think we would go two expacs in a row with no class because of what happened with expansions before.

Trying to see a trend for numbers and forecasting like trying to figure out dates makes sense. For features it doesn't apply. Rules can be broken when they try something new.

Well this is a bit different. In this case we have a developer from Vanilla who stated that Blizzard's goal with the original 9 classes was to give players the ability to play as WC3's heroes, and we have the three expansion classes which are expanded versions of 3 WC3's hero units. While there doesn't need to be a precedent, Blizzard has shown that when it comes to their classes, they have repeatedly required a precedent for implementation. The lack of a new class in Shadowlands actually supports that general view.

As I often say in these cases, there is ZERO reason for Blizzard to break from what they have been doing for nearly 20 years. What have they been doing? Been extremely careful releasing new classes. For a comparison, WoW's nearest competitor has released more classes in 6 years than WoW has released in 14 years.

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

I really don't understand this rigidness to class philosophy. There's nothing saying they HAVE to base a new class on WC3. With the exception of Demon Hunters, all other classes are based on classic fantasy classes. Hell, Death Knights are just a play on DnD's unholy paladins or Everquest's Shadowknights. There's nothing to say they can't create something new. If they had to go based on previous patterns, then Shadowlands would have had a new class, which it obviously didn't.

[Therougetitan]

Well this is a bit different. In this case we have a developer from Vanilla who stated that Blizzard's goal with the original 9 classes was to give players the ability to play as WC3's heroes, and we have the three expansion classes which are expanded versions of 3 WC3's hero units. While there doesn't need to be a precedent, Blizzard has shown that when it comes to their classes, they have repeatedly required a precedent for implementation. The lack of a new class in Shadowlands actually supports that general view.

As I often say in these cases, there is ZERO reason for Blizzard to break from what they have been doing for nearly 20 years.

Counterpoint: Most of the original devs are gone now and they have new people who want to do their own thing. This is evident with the current writing team under Steve Danuser quickly wrapping up the plots of Warcraft 3 and calling Shadowlands the end of it. They are wanting to move to a new chapter of Warcraft so whatever comes next may be completely fresh.

[Teriz]

I really don't understand this rigidness to class philosophy. There's nothing saying they HAVE to base a new class on WC3. With the exception of Demon Hunters, all other classes are based on classic fantasy classes. Hell, Death Knights are just a play on DnD's unholy paladins or Everquest's Shadowknights. There's nothing to say they can't create something new. If they had to go based on previous patterns, then Shadowlands would have had a new class, which it obviously didn't.

No, Death Knights literally came from WC3;

http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...thknight.shtml

If you notice, the armor, weaponry, mount, and abilities were carried over to WoW as well.

And as I said above, Shadowlands may not have had a new class because there was no new class available to fill the slot.

- - - Updated - - -

Counterpoint: Most of the original devs are gone now and they have new people who want to do their own thing. This is evident with the current writing team under Steve Danuser quickly wrapping up the plots of Warcraft 3 and calling Shadowlands the end of it. They are wanting to move to a new chapter of Warcraft so whatever comes next may be completely fresh.

That certainly IS possible, but is that restricted to story, or does that bleed into the class creation side of things as well? Also while the team may be ready to wrap up the storyline of WC3, that still doesn't change the reality that any new class needs to actually fit in Warcraft and offer something unique to the lineup. WoW's current class lineup covers a lot of bases.

[Hitei]

And again, the t class is sucking out all the air...

Teriz will Teriz, etc.

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

No, Death Knights literally came from WC3;

http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...thknight.shtml

If you notice, the armor, weaponry, mount, and abilities were carried over to WoW as well.

Yes. Death Knights came from WC3, but they're nothing new. Everquest had a version and came out 3 years prior. Unholy knight using dark powers is not a trope that Warcraft created. Sorry.

[Zankai27]

And again, the t class is sucking out all the air...

More like the T user.

Christ, talk about not taking a hint.

[Teriz]

Yes. Death Knights came from WC3, but they're nothing new. Everquest had a version and came out 3 years prior. Unholy knight using dark powers is not a trope that Warcraft created. Sorry.

I never said it was. I said that the Death Knight class in WoW comes directly from the Death Knight and associated units in WC3. I'm well aware that the concept of a Black Knight, or Dark Knight has been around for decades, proceeding videogames in general.

[Revamp Man]

So anyone else piece together the Eternal Sun is going to be involved with whatever comes next
we have the mount
we have whispers
we have more mention of it in 9.2.5

we can look at the old pandaren legend even though it may be exaggerated and look at the number 5
there were 5 suns but 4 were shot down leaving only anshe
the lore from the taurens says that anshe protects the titan world soul during the day while the moon known to NElfs as Elune protects it at night
this would place the sun or the being behind it on the same level as Elune in being an eternal one and a member of the pantheon of life

so now what do we have in terms of hints
emerald drake mount for collectors edition
a pet that uses the vulpera model for collectors edition
the sunwarmed furline mount as the last store mount before the expansion announcement (unless we go with the idea that everything including store mounts were delayed by 6 months)
whispers about underneath a shining surface lies a darkness
the undead attacking silvermoon
new models for calia and anduin
Khadgar is back

taking all of this im going to guess that while we dont visit "the lifelands" we will see more influence by that cosmic power especially considering the genesaurs are creations of life and so is the overgrowth. We may see more influence by the emerald dream as well and see that the dream we know is simply a walled off version kinda like the grey shadowlands. The scourge might be defeated by the life equivalent.

The scarlet crusade might make their move seeing the scourge attacks and the peace between the alliance and the horde as a way to stoke the fires of hatred and cause a war. The added calia and bolvar story might lead to the rebuilding of the kingdom and thus Anduin getting his queen. Depending on the role that the forces of life will take we might get the long awaited necromancer class (you can argue that it overlaps with DK all you want but ultimately it is up to blizzard not people on a forum with a love for trains) and use the magics we learned about in the shadowlands to fight back against the force that most would see as the good guys.

[DiscipleofCazicThule]

I never said it was. I said that the Death Knight class in WoW comes directly from the Death Knight and associated units in WC3. I'm well aware that the concept of a Black Knight, or Dark Knight has been around for decades, proceeding videogames in general.

Ok, got it. The point was completely missed. Cool.

[PhillyCheese]

The scarlet crusade might make their move seeing the scourge attacks and the peace between the alliance and the horde as a way to stoke the fires of hatred and cause a war. The added calia and bolvar story might lead to the rebuilding of the kingdom and thus Anduin getting his queen. Depending on the role that the forces of life will take we might get the long awaited necromancer class (you can argue that it overlaps with DK all you want but ultimately it is up to blizzard not people on a forum with a love for trains) and use the magics we learned about in the shadowlands to fight back against the force that most would see as the good guys.

I’m starting to think that Taelia was not meant to be Anduin’s lover considering how little they interact. It makes WAY more sense for Calia’s daughter to be his love interest, even moreso if she’s an antagonist that mirrors his powers in the light.

Enemies to lovers is not something Blizz has done ever, AFAIK, and it fits Anduin very well: someone who uses the light for nefarious purposes, though maybe they genuinely believe them.

If Calias daughter posing as a man is a big character soon, I expect her to be Anduins lover in the long term.

[Zankai27]

Ok, got it. The point was completely missed. Cool.

That's just kind of how it works with Teriz, my dude.