1. #31741
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    1.) Rogues
    What about them? They got Evasion from Demon Hunters, Stealth from Blademasters, Hide and Envenomed Weapon from creeps, and later got Fan of Knives and Shadow Strike from Wardens. Interestingly, they almost got Blink in Alpha, but that went to Mages instead. I'm sure I'm also missing some other sources btw.

    2.) Runemaster was a serious contender for the Wotlk class
    So the story goes..... I always found it interesting how Necromancers, Runemasters, and Death Knights were supposedly in a three-way contest for class inclusion in WotLK, yet DKs had Necromancer abilities and Rune-based lore in WC3. So it would be obvious that you go with the class option that allows you to house all three concepts simultaneously.

    3.) WoW Classes "resembling" WC3 Classes is the definition of confirmation bias.
    I said that the expansion classes resemble the WC3 hero units they're based on. And they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trazzle View Post
    I’d agree, Gallywix seems more of a president business type than Tinker. Gets power, gets big guns and powerful tools/toys.

    Still though, that suggests that Gallywix has a top notch engineering team. I’d reckon one, if not many of them, would consider themselves as Tinkers, likely vying for Gallywix’s favor after being supplanted by Gazlowe.
    His father was a Tinker, and Gallywix himself was an advisor to the Tinker Union.

    As for himself personally being a Tinker, I doubt it. When he tries to build a mech to rival Mekkatorque's in BFA he hires others to build it for him.

    Hobart Grapplehammer is definitely one though.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Jastor_Gallywix

  2. #31742
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I agree. More than likely it won’t even be called Tinker, but something more generalized like Mechanic, Inventor, Gadgeteer, Mekgineer, Technician, or Mechanist. Same thing happened to Brewmasters with the Monk class.
    Well, they both had *race* before the name (Goblin, Pandaren).

    That said, there’s always a chance it’s restricted to the small races.
    Doesn't make any sense in the slightest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    People are also salty that the lack of a new class completely obliterated any chance for Necro and DR for 10.0. And since that pretty much guarantees tinkers as there's nothing else with high priority, well there you go.
    You clearly are unaware of other classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There's a difference between obviousness and certainty. I believe that while the Tinker has obvious inroads towards becoming a class in WoW, It isn't a certainty that it's going to happen. I do believe though that if there is a next class, it's going to be the Tinker. Lack of a new class in Shadowlands pretty much confirmed that, because the only class really rivalling the Tinker concept was Dark Rangers.
    That's very narrow-minded.
    You only acknowledge classes based on their popularity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Again no Necro or DR in SL means no Necro or DR for 10.0 with a shadow of a doubt.

    10.0 needs to have a new class.

    Necros and DR were the only real contenders. There is absolutely no other class left that has the creative possibility and lack of representation that tinkers have.

    Add it up together and any one can see that tinkers are next, despite personal preferences.

    It's really plain and simple.

    Fyi, I don't give a fly fuck if people don't like me for speaking the TRUTH. It's hilarious seeing all the rage anyway.
    Just like your alternate self, viewing DR and Necro as the only other possibilities is laughable. Especially considering Necro was absorbed into the Death Knight during its creation. You clearly work off of familiarity rather than knowledgeability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Now there's always a possibility that Blizzard could expand on the concept and make new graphics and animations for other races. However, there's also the very real possibility that you'll see this class limited to Gnomes, Goblins, Mechagnomes, and possibly Vulpera (due to Goblin skeleton).

    Why? Because it'd simply be easier to do, and to port over the existing Tinker (and Alchemist) abilities.

    Demon Hunters were Elven centric, Monks were Pandaren centric. Tinkers by their nature are Goblin centric. So it stands to reason that the class will be on Goblin terms.

    We'll see what happens one way or another.
    Did Sunwalkers get their own animations when they were introduced? Yea...
    The base would be Goblins and Gnomes. Lore would be other races as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Okay, but what type of classes are you talking about? WoW classes pretty much cover everything except the technology archetype.
    I wouldn't say everything. They clearly also covered Demon Hunter. And here we are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, like what? Name some class ideas that have some basis in Warcraft, but are nonexistent in the current class lineup.
    Blademaster, Dark Ranger, Night Warrior, Warden, Shadow Hunter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Again, lack of a new class in SL means NOTHING has priority over tinkers, absolutely NOTHING. Not Necro, not DR, not bard(lol), not blademaster, not warden.
    Tinkers have no priority over anything in a possible Dragon, Light, Void or Life expansion.

    Think about, the pattern dictates we get a new class every two expansions. Why oh why did we not get Necro or DR in SL? Because blizzard know what class they want to make next and unfortunately it wasn't time yet story wise.

    Now that gallywix was seen in Tazavesh, we know that tinker shenanigans are about to go down. Just stop righting and join the band wagon already.

    God I can't wait till the 19th...
    If you don't main a Tinker, then i'm the Queen of England.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, I'm saying that the Hunter class in WoW comes from multiple sources in WC3 and a LOT of their material originated in the Night Elf faction. Tyrande in WC3 was a Priest/Hunter hybrid character, and her abilities were used to seed both classes.

    To illustrate it for you, these are the top three classes for Night Elf players;

    Notice the bow Tyrande is holding?
    The Hunter comes from the Ranger RPG trope. Nothing lunar about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said that PotM was the only source for the Priest class. The Priest class also sourced abilities from Priests and other units.
    The Priest has nothing PotM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What about them? They got Evasion from Demon Hunters, Stealth from Blademasters, Hide and Envenomed Weapon from creeps, and later got Fan of Knives and Shadow Strike from Wardens. Interestingly, they almost got Blink in Alpha, but that went to Mages instead. I'm sure I'm also missing some other sources btw.
    What a load of rubbish.
    Stealth isn't from Windwalk.
    Warden's Shadow strike hurls a poison-coated dagger. The Rogue's version is a Shadow attack.

  3. #31743
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    That's just kind of how it works with Teriz, my dude.
    I noticed. It's like arguing with a wall. Everything supports their argument. Everyone else is wrong.

    I can't believe we're at the point where we are arguing classes got their skills from WC3, and not from the literal fantasy archetypes that have existed as far back as the 80s.

  4. #31744
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What about them? They got Evasion from Demon Hunters, Stealth from Blademasters, Hide and Envenomed Weapon from creeps, and later got Fan of Knives and Shadow Strike from Wardens. Interestingly, they almost got Blink in Alpha, but that went to Mages instead. I'm sure I'm also missing some other sources btw.
    So you've demonstrated that a world of warcraft class can be

    • Referenced in name only in prior lore,
    • Not appear in Warcraft 3,
    • So long as it has a robust history in classic RPGs

    That describes both Rogues & Bards

  5. #31745
    Can we stop this Tinker debate?
    "His name was Gambit. Remember it."

  6. #31746
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    It's Godwin's law of MMOC, except we can swap Hitler with tinker

  7. #31747
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except it isn't a "fanwank".

    Again, look at the previous expansion inclusions; Each one got their entire kit from WC3 and the Demon Hunters got additional abilities from HotS. Those formed the foundation of the class.

    Now look at the Tinker's abilities from WC3; Pocket Factory, Cluster Rockets, Engineering Upgrade, and Robo Goblin.
    Now look at the Tinker's abilities from HotS; Rock-it Turret, Deth Lazor, XPlodium Charge, Grav-O-Bomb 3000, and Robo Goblin.

    Those are distinctly Goblin and Gnome-style tech abilities, and simply don't fit every single race. You think a Draenei is going to be using an ability called "Deth Lazor" or dropping Pocket Factories that are pumping out little robotic soldiers? Let's also not forget the claw pack;



    There's also the Goblin Alchemist, which is supposedly the base for the Tinker healing spec. Again, it's Goblin centric;



    Now there's always a possibility that Blizzard could expand on the concept and make new graphics and animations for other races. However, there's also the very real possibility that you'll see this class limited to Gnomes, Goblins, Mechagnomes, and possibly Vulpera (due to Goblin skeleton).

    Why? Because it'd simply be easier to do, and to port over the existing Tinker (and Alchemist) abilities.

    Demon Hunters were Elven centric, Monks were Pandaren centric. Tinkers by their nature are Goblin centric. So it stands to reason that the class will be on Goblin terms.

    We'll see what happens one way or another.
    But it would be a missed opportunity to not include Draenai, Maghar Orcs and Dwarves. And if we get these why stop at them? Your second picture f.e. could also work super well for a Forsaken Apothecary, especially if they allow us more customizations via glyphs (or just racial customization for the Mekka/Hobgoblin like Paladins/Shamans/Druids already have).

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  8. #31748
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Guy, you say that you've watched the devs destroy this game you love for the past decade, but you also have an I miss Legion sig.

    Which is it?
    Both? Legion was a great expansion. And when I said "almost a decade" I was in fact referring mostly to the garbage they've put out after Legion. After all, it's been 6 years since Legion came out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeraldofSargeras View Post
    Can we stop this Tinker debate?
    Just ignore every anti-Tinker post, that's what I've been doing. Don't reply to them at all, ever. They're only trying to bait you (presumably to make up for the attention they never got as a child) and replying to them will only cause another stupid back-and-forth debate that will fill 20 pages with nonsense that nobody cares about.

  9. #31749
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Both? Legion was a great expansion. And when I said "almost a decade" I was in fact referring mostly to the garbage they've put out after Legion. After all, it's been 6 years since Legion came out.

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    Just ignore every anti-Tinker post, that's what I've been doing. Don't reply to them at all, ever. They're only trying to bait you (presumably to make up for the attention they never got as a child) and replying to them will only cause another stupid back-and-forth debate that will fill 20 pages with nonsense that nobody cares about.
    Same goes for every pro-tinker post

  10. #31750
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Same goes for every pro-tinker post
    I have no horse in this race, I think Tinker is just as likely as a class as anything else. I don't care if it happens or not, but I do also feel like the people who are shitting on pro-Tinker posts are far more vicious than the ones merely suggesting it as a possibility (based on the posts I've seen on this thread).

  11. #31751
    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    I have no horse in this race, I think Tinker is just as likely as a class as anything else. I don't care if it happens or not, but I do also feel like the people who are shitting on pro-Tinker posts are far more vicious than the ones merely suggesting it as a possibility (based on the posts I've seen on this thread).
    So much for ignoring anti tinkers eh?

    People come to this forum and become very resentful of pro tinkers due to their zealous and unwillingness to discuss other potential classes.

    As I said in my last post Tinkers are not possible they'll either be locked to the most unpopular races or be a very half arsed job acrossall races, the class is too big a task for developers to take the risk on.

  12. #31752
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    So much for ignoring anti tinkers eh?

    People come to this forum and become very resentful of pro tinkers due to their zealous and unwillingness to discuss other potential classes.

    As I said in my last post Tinkers are not possible they'll either be locked to the most unpopular races or be a very half arsed job acrossall races, the class is too big a task for developers to take the risk on.
    As that guy said, Tinkers are as possible as any other class. I can't see any reason as to why would they be locked to any particular races. If Tinker as a class happens, it should be the second most universal class after Warrior. And why would it be a half arsed job and a big task to develop? If Blizzard put their mind on it, it's absolutely possible to produce an awesome and fun to play new class.
    unclench your jaw

  13. #31753
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    As that guy said, Tinkers are as possible as any other class. I can't see any reason as to why would they be locked to any particular races. If Tinker as a class happens, it should be the second most universal class after Warrior. And why would it be a half arsed job and a big task to develop? If Blizzard put their mind on it, it's absolutely possible to produce an awesome and fun to play new class.
    I would rather Blizz fix existing classes to fit architypes properly as @Shadowlands-is-fake said before introduce a really shitty class for a minority of vocal fanatics.

  14. #31754
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    I honestly don't mind Tinkers, because it would probably mean they removed the stupid explosives from Survival at last. Survival and BM have really become the "we gotta give the gadget-lovers something"-specs of the game, and it sucks.

    BM should be about commanding a beast into battle like a hunter does with a dog IRL.

    Surv should be about blending in with the wild, using a spear or two hatchets and perhaps setting traps (but not based on technology, just simple sharpened sticks, poisons and stuff like that).

    MM should be the typical elven archer type spec.
    Spot on. I'm not the biggest tinker fan but I wouldn't mind seeing them added.

  15. #31755
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    I would rather Blizz fix existing classes to fit architypes properly as @Shadowlands-is-fake said before introduce a really shitty class for a minority of vocal fanatics.
    First of all, they can do both. Add a new class and work on the already existing ones. Like they did in MoP(and to extend in Legion), for instance.

    Second of all, if Tinker ever happens, how do you know that it's going to be a shitty class? Ugly show of bias here. Let me remind you that many people had the same attitude towards MoP, because of the Pandaren, yet it turned out to be one of the best expansions.

    Third of all, Blizzard really, really need "a win" with the next expansion. Regardless of what you read in this thread in particular, the last couple expansions are not exactly considered "players' favorites". Simply "fixing existing classes to fit architypes properly" would absolutely not cut it, Blizzard need to think bigger than that. Like adding a new class. Whether is that class a Tinker or any other it's up to them to decide.
    unclench your jaw

  16. #31756
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Well that is actually interesting isnt it?
    I suppose it is, I really hope this is a clue to future merged/mega-zones and a world revamp. But to be fair, at this stage next expansion could be anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeraldofSargeras View Post
    Can we stop this Tinker debate?
    This please. It sucks all the air out of the room. Or at least if we discuss Tinkers, let this be constructive.

  17. #31757
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    The Hunter comes from the Ranger RPG trope. Nothing lunar about that.
    In WoW much of the Hunter class comes from Night Elf concepts. Night Elves in WC3 were almost entirely an archer faction, so a good portion of the Hunter concept originated there. This is why Hunters have/had abilities like Arcane Shot, Trueshot Aura, and Sentinel.

    The Priest has nothing PotM.
    https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=19305/starshards
    https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=19293/elunes-grace

    What a load of rubbish.
    Stealth isn't from Windwalk.
    Actually that's exactly what Stealth is. In fact, Ambush also came from the Blademaster, since when you came out of Windwalk (Stealth) you did additional damage on your initial attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscipleofCazicThule View Post
    I noticed. It's like arguing with a wall. Everything supports their argument. Everyone else is wrong.

    I can't believe we're at the point where we are arguing classes got their skills from WC3, and not from the literal fantasy archetypes that have existed as far back as the 80s.
    Where did anyone say that D&D archetypes had zero influence on WoW classes? I certainly didn''t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    So you've demonstrated that a world of warcraft class can be

    • Referenced in name only in prior lore,
    • Not appear in Warcraft 3,
    • So long as it has a robust history in classic RPGs

    That describes both Rogues & Bards
    The original 9 WoW classes, yes. The expansion classes are a completely different can of worms, as I described earlier. One huge difference is that expansion classes have to match the setting and story of the expansion they're being released in. So in the case of Bards, you're going to need an expansion where a Bard takes center stage, and the expansion relates to Bards. That's difficult to accomplish when there are no major Bard characters in WoW or WC history to steer the plot.

    We should also keep in mind that Blizzard planned an Assassin hero in WC3, and there were Rogue/Assassin creeps in WC3. So Rogues did appear in the game. Bards, did not.

  18. #31758
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I suppose it is, I really hope this is a clue to future merged/mega-zones and a world revamp. But to be fair, at this stage next expansion could be anything.



    This please. It sucks all the air out of the room. Or at least if we discuss Tinkers, let this be constructive.
    While Teriz and Varx have a say in it this is sadly an impossible ask, People are not even allowed to discuss other class concepts without being told they are wrong and that the T is coming, and then its an endless debate.

  19. #31759
    The Undying Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    While Teriz and Varx have a say in it this is sadly an impossible ask, People are not even allowed to discuss other class concepts without being told they are wrong and that the T is coming, and then its an endless debate.
    No one is stopping you from discussing other class concepts.

  20. #31760
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The entire Timekeeper faction and especially their preceding concept, the Bronze Watchers.
    I remember at the end of MoP people were excited for a potential Timewarder class based on the NPCs on the Timeless Isle. That would have been an original concept!

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-to-be-in-WoD
    Quote from Warden:
    Those who meddle with the timeways for their own selfish ends are often dangerous.
    It is for this reason I joined Wardens, staunch defenders of the Timewalkers.
    We guard the Watchers and Weavers as they go about their tasks.

    Sounds very much like a tank

    Here's one from a Weaver:

    The Weavers are arcanists who specialize in chronomancy; the art of weaving time.
    Amongst the Timewalkers, we alone can repair damage to the timeways, open temporal portals, and other such tasks.
    These things once came easily to the bronze dragonflight, but alas, no longer.

    Sounds like a potential healer, repairing damage. Maybe manipulating time to return your body to before it was hurt.

    Quote from Watcher:

    The Watchers are the Timewalkers' scholars and scouts, researchers and spies.

    Stealth style spec?

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