Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ersula]

9.2.5 being the last patch of the expansion makes me think we aren't getting SL allied races at all, because they would be in there, unless they are planning to keep them in a secret future build for pre-orders, or part of 10.0 for pre-orders, I just think the time for them to be playable passed.

Perhaps, but its just the first build of the patch. The first builds of 7.3.5 only had those allied races in the race vendor category & the Shadowlands races are already there. The fact that Void Elves showed up there & were never before mentioned is what was alarming. (That file includes all the playable & unplayable races capable of wearing player armor, so its not conclusive either way.)

[Wangming]

Like, being completely serious, wow don't have many loose ends to pull out an entire expansion, neither many stuff to create from zero or amazing writers. The options we have atm that are more likely to be explored knowing the state of the lore and game are:

1 - Dragons
2 - Yrel/light invasion
3 - More cosmic bs
4 - Underground war that is being hinted for years with the blingtron
6 - Azshara coming back
7- A completely new/never seen stuff

Im putting my money on dragon stuff. Especially after Danuser making shit up with the dragon lore recently, i bet my left hand he will "claim" dragon lore for his own now.

Actually we have tons of lose ends. Which is why the whole end 20 years of story just stinks. Azshara is running amok somewhere. The Nathrezim store the sword we have Deanathrius in and we don't know how that went. We have yet to see what Nathanos has been up to since he arrived in the Shadowlands. Xal'atath fucked up somewhere to do gods know what.

The biggest hint is the datamined emerald drake. And yes, that could point towards dragons. Buuut it could also point towards to the Emerald Dragons and by extension Elune. She's been getting more and more involved since....well, Legion, really. And it does make you think that 9.2.5 has Tirisfall restored, but nothing yet, for Darnassus. The future of the Night Elves might be something that will be explored in 10.0. Aaaand also since she IS a former Night Elf, two birds could be killed with one stone and have Azshara show up in the Elune pack.

[Teriz]

9.2.5 being the last patch of the expansion makes me think we aren't getting SL allied races at all, because they would be in there, unless they are planning to keep them in a secret future build for pre-orders, or part of 10.0 for pre-orders, I just think the time for them to be playable passed.

Allied races were entirely tied to BFA's theme of faction war; We need new allies. There's no reason for allied races lorewise, and honestly if they're planning new races, they should just allow you to select them with expansion purchase, not through rep grinds. So if we're getting new races, they're going to be tied to the next expansion, not the current one.

[Marlamin]

I would guess the encrypted achievements are for the 10.0 Collectors Edition? Do we have any information beyond "it's an encrypted achievement"? Like atleast a category?

Nope, not that I can see.

[therumblings]

Allied races were entirely tied to BFA's theme of faction war; We need new allies. There's no reason for allied races lorewise, and honestly if they're planning new races, they should just allow you to select them with expansion purchase, not through rep grinds.

You can already unlock allied races just by doing quests now, so I hope they're done with rep locking them. At the very least what they should do IMO is make super old allied races be treated like core races and playable by everyone but doing their unlock quests/reputation instead reward the heritage armor.

[Wangming]

They did it on purpose as a hint toward the next expansion setting. I don't know why this is even an argument in this thread lol, it's hard to tell what is a hint and what wasn't before the expansion reveal. If it's dragons, then we can obviously point to all the numerous dragon stuff, or if it's Light/Void cosmic war we can point to that. They are planting seeds for the future but the question is which one is next.

He is arguing semantics. Which would be my job, honestly. I have degrees in philology. A datamined item flat out confirms the setting, so it is not JUST a hint. According to him. And yes, I can see where he is coming from.

[Syegfryed]

shadowlands allied race is pre-patch material, if they don't have any bullets to sell the next expansion(like no new races or new class)

TBC: broken draenei and ogres
WoTLK: tuskar and vrykul
Cataclysm: furlbog and satyr
MoP: jinyu, hozen, grummle
WoD: botani and Saberon
Legion: could add krokuul draenei.
BFA: Ankoan and Rajani Mogu (think this was originally planned tbh)

taunka and not tuskar

gilgoblins for horde and mogu for alliance from bfa

jinuy and andkoan is basically the same shit don't need to waste a slot for it

[therumblings]

shadowlands allied race is pre-patch material, if they don't have any bullets to sell the next expansion(like no new races or new class)



taunka and not tuskar

gilgoblins for horde and mogu for alliance from bfa

jinuy and andkoan is basically the same shit don't need to waste a slot for it

Mogu for Alliance would be an interesting and cool choice, I can see Jinyu and Ankoan being the same race with customization kinda like how you can be a Wildhammer/Bronzebeard as a Dwarf.

[Woggmer]

Making the Jailer mute while maintaining the rest of the plot basically as is also makes the 5D chess angle more palatable. The actual necessary retcons to perform the Shadowlands story, aside from the big one that is the afterlife being what it is in the first place which'd be the case regardless of the rest of the plot, is one. That's the Dreadlord retcon. Dreadlords are moved from coming from a planet Nathreza to actually being from the Shadowlands and made by Sire Denathrius to infiltrate the other powers and now being agents of the Jailer. Everything else you can cut with minimal alteration of any aspect of the plot or outright improvement in the case of cutting out the shattered soul shenanigans or the nonsense with Argus. When the Jailer is mute, you necessarily have to project qualities both on him to make the plot gel but also on his minions, with Denathrius having the charisma to make it work and the Dreadlords being able to fill in when lines must be spoken, like say to assure Sylvanas of her route.

The Maw intro is yet another example of this in action. If the Jailer doesn't speak and only acts we'd see him ditch Baine and leave, see him change in expression and seize Anduin and rather than say "Nothing escapes the Maw" right before we escape the Maw and say how X is impossible about us activating the First One plot device the same could be communicated with a look. He's a transparent riff on Sauron and much like Sauron, we don't actually need to see him manipulate or say shit, this can in fact be told provided we can't completely rule out that he's capable of such a thing the way we can now because we now how he talks and that he has the charisma of a tea tray. Less is more and for a villain who primarily serves as an arch threat on a cosmic level you don't need him to excel or to carry scenes, only to function.

To add to that, if he is a mute then it would explain why his motive for a reality reset remains a mystery... or rather they don't explain there ever being a reset. He was just designed to be a Death machine and is merely following a different directive than his predetermined one.

He could've been a more terrifying villain like if Hal became a Death God. That he knew about Sylvanas's betrayal and before he gives her other half of the soul, he crushes it in his hand and destroys it. At least then if they wanted to portray her as owning herself up to her mistakes, she'd do it on her accord and not weakened by her former self.

As for the whole Dreadlord retcon about the planet "Nathreza" they could easily say that was just a lie to get Sargeras to have them join the Burning Legion's ranks.

[PhillyCheese]

I know this is a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually have no problem with the Shadowlands doorway remaining open. It's a fairly unique (I can't think of another serious fantasy setting) idea that the afterlife and reality are connected in such a way and it actually makes perfect sense: we saved one death god (Primus) and helped instate another (Pelagos) who we are canonically acquaintances/friends with (leveling and ZM campaign). We also saved the cycle of life and death in Ardenweald though that is more on Tyrande.

Azeroth mortals are responsible for a serious restructuring of the afterlife, it would honestly be shitty writing if we were booted out entirely and never heard from them again JUST because people on the forums don't like the expansion lore. Blizzard can do some really cool stuff with the SL races appearing sparingly over time, especially if the Scourge continues to be a threat which looks to be the case (as they may be the only ones who can help us eradicate them).

I hope the removed quest was removed because its spoilers and not because Blizz walked back on any ideas to continue the lore of Shadowlands due to SL being unpopular.

[Syegfryed]

Actually we have tons of lose ends. Which is why the whole end 20 years of story just stinks. Azshara is running amok somewhere. The Nathrezim store the sword we have Deanathrius in and we don't know how that went. We have yet to see what Nathanos has been up to since he arrived in the Shadowlands. Xal'atath fucked up somewhere to do gods know what.

yeah i just mentioned azshara and cosmic bullshit in my list, so it all ends confirming my point on we don't have much loose ends big enough to make an entire expansions out of it

Nathanos is in the maw and sylvanus will be searching for him until 13.0 or something.

The biggest hint is the datamined emerald drake. And yes, that could point towards dragons. Buuut it could also point towards to the Emerald Dragons and by extension Elune. She's been getting more and more involved since....well, Legion, really. And it does make you think that 9.2.5 has Tirisfall restored, but nothing yet, for Darnassus. The future of the Night Elves might be something that will be explored in 10.0. Aaaand also since she IS a former Night Elf, two birds could be killed with one stone and have Azshara show up in the Elune pack.

We have more hints towards dragons than that, just saying.

Yes, it could be elune and more elf bullshit, but this doesn't have enough juice to fill up an expansion, more likely this would be explored in a sidequest about the green dragonflight in the dragon expansion.

An emerald dream expansion is possible, with elune for sure, but just after shadowlands? i doubt it. it would need one or two expansions before going for another plane/dimension like that.

[therumblings]

I know this is a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually have no problem with the Shadowlands doorway remaining open. It's a fairly unique (I can't think of another serious fantasy setting) idea that the afterlife and reality are connected in such a way and it actually makes perfect sense: we saved one death god (Primus) and helped instate another (Pelagos) who we are canonically acquaintances/friends with (leveling and ZM campaign). We also saved the cycle of life and death in Ardenweald though that is more on Tyrande.

Azeroth mortals are responsible for a serious restructuring of the afterlife, it would honestly be shitty writing if we were booted out entirely and never heard from them again JUST because people on the forums don't like the expansion lore. Blizzard can do some really cool stuff with the SL races appearing sparingly over time, especially if the Scourge continues to be a threat which looks to be the case (as they may be the only ones who can help us eradicate them).

I hope the removed quest was removed because its spoilers and not because Blizz walked back on any ideas to continue the lore of Shadowlands due to SL being unpopular.

They should keep it open, but probably gatekeep it heavily who is allowed in.

[PhillyCheese]

Also, seeing the Emerald Drake as a "lol Elune/Lifelands" thing is missing the point I think. Emerald Drakes are heavily tied to Vanilla/Classic and their themes are way more broad than "Elune". Could be a green drake included because they are the closest thing to Anti-Cataclysm (rebirth/healing) which is what the theme of 10.0 may be.

[therumblings]

Also, seeing the Emerald Drake as a "lol Elune/Lifelands" thing is missing the point I think. Emerald Drakes are heavily tied to Vanilla/Classic and their themes are way more broad than "Elune". Could be a green drake included because they are the closest thing to Anti-Cataclysm (rebirth/healing) which is what the theme of 10.0 may be.

Agreed. I don't think 10.0 will be cosmic like an Elune expansion.

[PhillyCheese]

Agreed. I don't think 10.0 will be cosmic like an Elune expansion.

Cosmic themes can be included... just like they were in literally every expansion.

People are just fearmongering that we are going to get Shadowlands 2 3 4 and 5 and never go back to Azeroth because le epic trolling and ragecrafting from people who no longer believe Blizz can make something they want. While ignoring the multitude of dev comments saying they are going for something "grounded" (already sick of the word) as well as stuff like HD human houses that very likely are not part of the Garden of Life.

[Wangming]

I am still absolutely convinced that next expansion will be Cataclysm 2.0, but based on rebuilding and change. Along with a full world revamp, new zones on top such as Dragon Isles, Undermine, Tel'Abim etc. A new class, that being one of the three: Tinker, Bard, Dragonknight and new races/allied races.

I like your enthusiasm, but this might be too much to expect. Unless of course they scrap a raid tier again. I can only provide screenshots of screenshots to the post where I compared how much content each expansion shipped with, but what you are suggesting is basically all the features of Cataclysm and all the features of MoP all in one.

[PhillyCheese]

I like your enthusiasm, but this might be too much to expect. Unless of course they scrap a raid tier again. I can only provide screenshots of screenshots to the post where I compared how much content each expansion shipped with, but what you are suggesting is basically all the features of Cataclysm and all the features of MoP all in one.

Cata failed because the revamp was done in a single development cycle. Meanwhile Cata 2 would do much better because not only have they updated models/zones during WoD, Legion, BFA and SL, but they also planned/changed a shorter expansion before 10.0 so they have even MORE dev time for 10.0. Last time this happened was the biggest feature-laden expansion (Legion).

Also very likely that Cata 2 would not have the extensive, dev-time-wasting geography changes of Cata because there won't be a dragon fucking things up.

Stuff like the Tirisfal thing, HD human houses, Azeroth racial plot continuations in 9.2.5 is more than speculation because it doesn't look heavily connected to Dragon Isles.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, two sea faring races who we have never seen together, and who just happen to be the main focus of the following expansion………

Yeah, two seafaring races who we have never seen together, put together in a location known for shipwrecks of all races that sail through the oceans. Man, it's almost as if it's super-rare for people with similar interests but different backgrounds meet in locations heavily related to their interests or something.... (/s)

People misreading the tea leaves doesn’t negate the fact that Blizzard is clearly dropping hints for future content.

I'm highly amused by how apropos it feels seeing you make an analogy to a method that it's confirmed to be fake. And only that, but also apparently completely unaware how your analogy is backing up my arguments.

And just like "reading tea leaves" is fake, so is all claims of "hints" in the game. It's all confirmation bias. Wishful thinking.

[Wangming]

Yes, it could be elune and more elf bullshit, but this doesn't have enough juice to fill up an expansion, more likely this would be explored in a sidequest about the green dragonflight in the dragon expansion.

An emerald dream expansion is possible, with elune for sure, but just after shadowlands? i doubt it. it would need one or two expansions before going for another plane/dimension like that.

You might be right, but you are way more focused on what would make sense, rather than what Blizzard would do.
Most people were already sick of all the damned orc focus after Siege of Orgrimmar. The end result was Warlords of Draenor. People were begging to be rid of Sylvanas halfway into BfA...and it was followed by Shadowlands. They don't know when to stop, and also make illogical choices regarding what is expansion sized and what is patch sized.

Ehh who knows, maybe I'm just salty. I mean I shouldn't be, WoW will not ruin my fun. But still I just don't think a footnote of a location featuring the most overrated fantasy race is enough to mend all the damage of the past four years.

[Polybius]

Yes, and a Million people incorrectly predicted that the next expansion after Legion would be the return of Yogg because of the Legion pre-expansion quest.
People incorrectly predicted that the expansion after Legion would be about the return of C'thun based on the Silithus quests
People incorrectly predicted that the expansion after BfA would be an Old God-themed one because of all the unique Black Empire assets they've created for one content patch.
People incorrectly predicted Shadowlands to actually be about Dragon Isles.

Yes, he was right in hindsight. At that point in time, two random NPCs showing up absolutely doesn't indicate an expansion in any way, especially because even back then, the Broken Isles did sit between Zandalar and Kul Tiras.

The point you are trying to make is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you think NPC X or Object Y is a hint towards the next expansion, because we don't know whether it's not just a hint or an easter egg until it actually gets revealed.

There weren’t any hints on Yogg. But they most definitely drop hints towards the next xpac, MoP did it with the timewalking tabard on a jade -cursed pandaren and time travel was predicted correctly. You can say it’s in hindsight but players have always had strong predictions, for 10+ years now.

You just have to practice looking at foreshadowing more.