Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ersula]

Oh wow, that removed quest giving a tour of our cities to denizens of the Shadowlands is quite telling.

Could we see the little Owl Kyrians out in Azeroth helping us build/rebuild cities/towns?

Even possibly as a playable race?

Not really. For a second I thought the "showing Shadowlands races around Stormwind" quest was indicative of allied races, but they're not Sylvan, they're Wild Gods. Those are supposed to transcend the veil between life & death.

[Lady Atia]

A post that doesn't get a lot of traction doesn't make it a bad/worthless post. If anything it actually adds something vs. the useless back and forth (which isn't speculation at all regardless of what some try to frame it as; it's arguing).

--

Meanwhile, Blizzard has put the last patch of the expansion on the PTR with a lot of new hints/unexplained things that are actually deserving of speculation/analysis.

What's happening in Tirisfal? Why is Calia involved? There's a LOT of VO and things encrypted there.

Is the way between SL <-> Azeroth canonically wide open now? Khadgar popped up as well as a (now removed) quest where we give a tour of Stormwind to creatures from the Shadowlands.

Why is there another encrypted Anduin model?

What's the encrypted item set for?

Why are there still two encrypted achievements from 9.2? Are those for next reset's content?

I can go on, but hopefully it's some food for thought that looks towards the future instead of the past.

I would guess the encrypted achievements are for the 10.0 Collectors Edition? Do we have any information beyond "it's an encrypted achievement"? Like atleast a category?

[Teriz]

Even if something from the Dragon Isles was datamined it doesn't mean that's the setting of the next expansion either. It could just be a single zone or an raid like was originally intended.

Yes. Dragon Isles was intended to be a raid, and that's very interesting. In the end, it could end up being something like Tol'Barand, The Isle of Thunder, or Mechagon, where there's a surface area, and a dungeon/raid beneath it.

On the other hand, Undermine was a planned continent, with islands surrounding it and Kezan. I do think if we have a large landmass next expansion, that's going to be it. There's a lot of clues pointing in that direction as well.

I am still absolutely convinced that next expansion will be Cataclysm 2.0, but based on rebuilding and change. Along with a full world revamp, new zones on top such as Dragon Isles, Undermine, Tel'Abim etc.

Yep, that's pretty much what I believe as well.

[Lady Atia]

9.2.5 being the last patch of the expansion makes me think we aren't getting SL allied races at all, because they would be in there, unless they are planning to keep them in a secret future build for pre-orders, or part of 10.0 for pre-orders, I just think the time for them to be playable passed.

They could easily announce them as pre-order bonus for 10.0 and have them off the PTR 'till we get the expansion announcement.

[Catastrophy349]

I can't wait for the 10.0 announcement. Some of this bickering back and forth is ludicrous.

[Ersula]

9.2.5 being the last patch of the expansion makes me think we aren't getting SL allied races at all, because they would be in there, unless they are planning to keep them in a secret future build for pre-orders, or part of 10.0 for pre-orders, I just think the time for them to be playable passed.

Perhaps, but its just the first build of the patch. The first builds of 7.3.5 only had those allied races in the race vendor category & the Shadowlands races are already there. The fact that Void Elves showed up there & were never before mentioned is what was alarming. (That file includes all the playable & unplayable races capable of wearing player armor, so its not conclusive either way.)

[Wangming]

Like, being completely serious, wow don't have many loose ends to pull out an entire expansion, neither many stuff to create from zero or amazing writers. The options we have atm that are more likely to be explored knowing the state of the lore and game are:

1 - Dragons
2 - Yrel/light invasion
3 - More cosmic bs
4 - Underground war that is being hinted for years with the blingtron
6 - Azshara coming back
7- A completely new/never seen stuff

Im putting my money on dragon stuff. Especially after Danuser making shit up with the dragon lore recently, i bet my left hand he will "claim" dragon lore for his own now.

Actually we have tons of lose ends. Which is why the whole end 20 years of story just stinks. Azshara is running amok somewhere. The Nathrezim store the sword we have Deanathrius in and we don't know how that went. We have yet to see what Nathanos has been up to since he arrived in the Shadowlands. Xal'atath fucked up somewhere to do gods know what.

The biggest hint is the datamined emerald drake. And yes, that could point towards dragons. Buuut it could also point towards to the Emerald Dragons and by extension Elune. She's been getting more and more involved since....well, Legion, really. And it does make you think that 9.2.5 has Tirisfall restored, but nothing yet, for Darnassus. The future of the Night Elves might be something that will be explored in 10.0. Aaaand also since she IS a former Night Elf, two birds could be killed with one stone and have Azshara show up in the Elune pack.

[Teriz]

9.2.5 being the last patch of the expansion makes me think we aren't getting SL allied races at all, because they would be in there, unless they are planning to keep them in a secret future build for pre-orders, or part of 10.0 for pre-orders, I just think the time for them to be playable passed.

Allied races were entirely tied to BFA's theme of faction war; We need new allies. There's no reason for allied races lorewise, and honestly if they're planning new races, they should just allow you to select them with expansion purchase, not through rep grinds. So if we're getting new races, they're going to be tied to the next expansion, not the current one.

[Marlamin]

I would guess the encrypted achievements are for the 10.0 Collectors Edition? Do we have any information beyond "it's an encrypted achievement"? Like atleast a category?

Nope, not that I can see.

[therumblings]

Allied races were entirely tied to BFA's theme of faction war; We need new allies. There's no reason for allied races lorewise, and honestly if they're planning new races, they should just allow you to select them with expansion purchase, not through rep grinds.

You can already unlock allied races just by doing quests now, so I hope they're done with rep locking them. At the very least what they should do IMO is make super old allied races be treated like core races and playable by everyone but doing their unlock quests/reputation instead reward the heritage armor.

[Wangming]

They did it on purpose as a hint toward the next expansion setting. I don't know why this is even an argument in this thread lol, it's hard to tell what is a hint and what wasn't before the expansion reveal. If it's dragons, then we can obviously point to all the numerous dragon stuff, or if it's Light/Void cosmic war we can point to that. They are planting seeds for the future but the question is which one is next.

He is arguing semantics. Which would be my job, honestly. I have degrees in philology. A datamined item flat out confirms the setting, so it is not JUST a hint. According to him. And yes, I can see where he is coming from.

[Syegfryed]

shadowlands allied race is pre-patch material, if they don't have any bullets to sell the next expansion(like no new races or new class)

TBC: broken draenei and ogres
WoTLK: tuskar and vrykul
Cataclysm: furlbog and satyr
MoP: jinyu, hozen, grummle
WoD: botani and Saberon
Legion: could add krokuul draenei.
BFA: Ankoan and Rajani Mogu (think this was originally planned tbh)

taunka and not tuskar

gilgoblins for horde and mogu for alliance from bfa

jinuy and andkoan is basically the same shit don't need to waste a slot for it

[therumblings]

shadowlands allied race is pre-patch material, if they don't have any bullets to sell the next expansion(like no new races or new class)



taunka and not tuskar

gilgoblins for horde and mogu for alliance from bfa

jinuy and andkoan is basically the same shit don't need to waste a slot for it

Mogu for Alliance would be an interesting and cool choice, I can see Jinyu and Ankoan being the same race with customization kinda like how you can be a Wildhammer/Bronzebeard as a Dwarf.

[Woggmer]

Making the Jailer mute while maintaining the rest of the plot basically as is also makes the 5D chess angle more palatable. The actual necessary retcons to perform the Shadowlands story, aside from the big one that is the afterlife being what it is in the first place which'd be the case regardless of the rest of the plot, is one. That's the Dreadlord retcon. Dreadlords are moved from coming from a planet Nathreza to actually being from the Shadowlands and made by Sire Denathrius to infiltrate the other powers and now being agents of the Jailer. Everything else you can cut with minimal alteration of any aspect of the plot or outright improvement in the case of cutting out the shattered soul shenanigans or the nonsense with Argus. When the Jailer is mute, you necessarily have to project qualities both on him to make the plot gel but also on his minions, with Denathrius having the charisma to make it work and the Dreadlords being able to fill in when lines must be spoken, like say to assure Sylvanas of her route.

The Maw intro is yet another example of this in action. If the Jailer doesn't speak and only acts we'd see him ditch Baine and leave, see him change in expression and seize Anduin and rather than say "Nothing escapes the Maw" right before we escape the Maw and say how X is impossible about us activating the First One plot device the same could be communicated with a look. He's a transparent riff on Sauron and much like Sauron, we don't actually need to see him manipulate or say shit, this can in fact be told provided we can't completely rule out that he's capable of such a thing the way we can now because we now how he talks and that he has the charisma of a tea tray. Less is more and for a villain who primarily serves as an arch threat on a cosmic level you don't need him to excel or to carry scenes, only to function.

To add to that, if he is a mute then it would explain why his motive for a reality reset remains a mystery... or rather they don't explain there ever being a reset. He was just designed to be a Death machine and is merely following a different directive than his predetermined one.

He could've been a more terrifying villain like if Hal became a Death God. That he knew about Sylvanas's betrayal and before he gives her other half of the soul, he crushes it in his hand and destroys it. At least then if they wanted to portray her as owning herself up to her mistakes, she'd do it on her accord and not weakened by her former self.

As for the whole Dreadlord retcon about the planet "Nathreza" they could easily say that was just a lie to get Sargeras to have them join the Burning Legion's ranks.

[PhillyCheese]

I know this is a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually have no problem with the Shadowlands doorway remaining open. It's a fairly unique (I can't think of another serious fantasy setting) idea that the afterlife and reality are connected in such a way and it actually makes perfect sense: we saved one death god (Primus) and helped instate another (Pelagos) who we are canonically acquaintances/friends with (leveling and ZM campaign). We also saved the cycle of life and death in Ardenweald though that is more on Tyrande.

Azeroth mortals are responsible for a serious restructuring of the afterlife, it would honestly be shitty writing if we were booted out entirely and never heard from them again JUST because people on the forums don't like the expansion lore. Blizzard can do some really cool stuff with the SL races appearing sparingly over time, especially if the Scourge continues to be a threat which looks to be the case (as they may be the only ones who can help us eradicate them).

I hope the removed quest was removed because its spoilers and not because Blizz walked back on any ideas to continue the lore of Shadowlands due to SL being unpopular.

[Syegfryed]

Actually we have tons of lose ends. Which is why the whole end 20 years of story just stinks. Azshara is running amok somewhere. The Nathrezim store the sword we have Deanathrius in and we don't know how that went. We have yet to see what Nathanos has been up to since he arrived in the Shadowlands. Xal'atath fucked up somewhere to do gods know what.

yeah i just mentioned azshara and cosmic bullshit in my list, so it all ends confirming my point on we don't have much loose ends big enough to make an entire expansions out of it

Nathanos is in the maw and sylvanus will be searching for him until 13.0 or something.

The biggest hint is the datamined emerald drake. And yes, that could point towards dragons. Buuut it could also point towards to the Emerald Dragons and by extension Elune. She's been getting more and more involved since....well, Legion, really. And it does make you think that 9.2.5 has Tirisfall restored, but nothing yet, for Darnassus. The future of the Night Elves might be something that will be explored in 10.0. Aaaand also since she IS a former Night Elf, two birds could be killed with one stone and have Azshara show up in the Elune pack.

We have more hints towards dragons than that, just saying.

Yes, it could be elune and more elf bullshit, but this doesn't have enough juice to fill up an expansion, more likely this would be explored in a sidequest about the green dragonflight in the dragon expansion.

An emerald dream expansion is possible, with elune for sure, but just after shadowlands? i doubt it. it would need one or two expansions before going for another plane/dimension like that.

[therumblings]

I know this is a pretty unpopular opinion but I actually have no problem with the Shadowlands doorway remaining open. It's a fairly unique (I can't think of another serious fantasy setting) idea that the afterlife and reality are connected in such a way and it actually makes perfect sense: we saved one death god (Primus) and helped instate another (Pelagos) who we are canonically acquaintances/friends with (leveling and ZM campaign). We also saved the cycle of life and death in Ardenweald though that is more on Tyrande.

Azeroth mortals are responsible for a serious restructuring of the afterlife, it would honestly be shitty writing if we were booted out entirely and never heard from them again JUST because people on the forums don't like the expansion lore. Blizzard can do some really cool stuff with the SL races appearing sparingly over time, especially if the Scourge continues to be a threat which looks to be the case (as they may be the only ones who can help us eradicate them).

I hope the removed quest was removed because its spoilers and not because Blizz walked back on any ideas to continue the lore of Shadowlands due to SL being unpopular.

They should keep it open, but probably gatekeep it heavily who is allowed in.

[PhillyCheese]

Also, seeing the Emerald Drake as a "lol Elune/Lifelands" thing is missing the point I think. Emerald Drakes are heavily tied to Vanilla/Classic and their themes are way more broad than "Elune". Could be a green drake included because they are the closest thing to Anti-Cataclysm (rebirth/healing) which is what the theme of 10.0 may be.

[therumblings]

Also, seeing the Emerald Drake as a "lol Elune/Lifelands" thing is missing the point I think. Emerald Drakes are heavily tied to Vanilla/Classic and their themes are way more broad than "Elune". Could be a green drake included because they are the closest thing to Anti-Cataclysm (rebirth/healing) which is what the theme of 10.0 may be.

Agreed. I don't think 10.0 will be cosmic like an Elune expansion.

[PhillyCheese]

Agreed. I don't think 10.0 will be cosmic like an Elune expansion.

Cosmic themes can be included... just like they were in literally every expansion.

People are just fearmongering that we are going to get Shadowlands 2 3 4 and 5 and never go back to Azeroth because le epic trolling and ragecrafting from people who no longer believe Blizz can make something they want. While ignoring the multitude of dev comments saying they are going for something "grounded" (already sick of the word) as well as stuff like HD human houses that very likely are not part of the Garden of Life.