Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

They should just rename World of Warcraft to the "Windrunner Chronicles" at this point. Alleria will obviously have a large role in a future expansion when we get back to dealing with the Void, and I wouldn't put it past them to bring Vereesa into the limelight as well. She's already canonically important as she's basically the faction leader of the remaining high elves (which could be a future plot point).

Wel las you said it is not a good thing, but still undeniable. There must always be a Windrunner.

[ercarp]

Serious question though... what if Blizzard does something radical?

WoW gets a multi-year release plan to gradually update the world to support evergreen content. A slow revamp.

This is not the way to come back after the failure of Shadowlands. They need a big expansion like Legion in order to make up for two flops (BfA -> SL) in a row. Although, in a way they're in a much worse state now than they were after WoD, so if they want to redeem the game they need something that's even bigger than Legion. "A slow revamp" and "evergreen content" sounds like a pathway to F2P to me, which I don't like the sound of.

[Revamp Man]

This is not the way to come back after the failure of Shadowlands. They need a big expansion like Legion in order to make up for two flops (BfA -> SL) in a row. Although, in a way they're in a much worse state now than they were after WoD, so if they want to redeem the game they need something that's even bigger than Legion. "A slow revamp" and "evergreen content" sounds like a pathway to F2P to me, which I don't like the sound of.

im actually expecting this

dragon isles is one area that has been mostly speculation by players since the concept art was shown
add in the fan favorite character wrathion and throw backs to previous enemies
revamp a few of the old world zones and give us the new zones
a new class
a new race the old way instead of requiring a grind of what will be old content
take advantage of the massive old storylines that have been abandoned

[putaruvlad]

Serious question though... what if Blizzard does something radical?

WoW gets a multi-year release plan to gradually update the world to support evergreen content. A slow revamp.

WoW also gets smallish annual expansions from now on, similar to ESO. For the first one, 2023 will focus on the theme "Renewal of Azeroth" (placeholder title). Content drops throughout the year will have lots of dragons, the Emerald Dream, etc. Content will utilize the revamped Azeroth zones as much as possible with a sort of "living story", while new continents will be rarer. If they introduce the Dragon Isles for example, it might take the form of a natural extension of the Eastern Kingdoms. An archipelago zone, not an entire continent.

A new mobile game is released to synergize with WoW, featuring pet battles or something similar.

Later in 2022, they drop the bomb and announce a cross-platform (including Cloud and Mobile) version of WoW, which is effectively WoW 2. It'll sit alongside regular WoW but focus on something entirely different. A new era in Warcraft's history (in the past or future). Gradually over time, it'll win over WoW's audience as they eventually will have to begin scaling back in regular WoW (aging engine etc).

Remember, years ago, when Blizzard wanted to do an expansion every year? The feedback from the community was a big "NO PLS" iirc.

[Wangming]

This is not the way to come back after the failure of Shadowlands. They need a big expansion like Legion in order to make up for two flops (BfA -> SL) in a row. Although, in a way they're in a much worse state now than they were after WoD, so if they want to redeem the game they need something that's even bigger than Legion. "A slow revamp" and "evergreen content" sounds like a pathway to F2P to me, which I don't like the sound of.

Absolutely. They need an absolutely bonkers content-rich expansion with new toys that will keep us entertained for a long long time. I would say it will take three items from the triangle of two new races, a new class, player housing. And if it is races or classes, it will be a very popular and often requested one.

[zernie]

Absolutely. They need an absolutely bonkers content-rich expansion with new toys that will keep us entertained for a long long time. I would say it will take three items from the triangle of two new races, a new class, player housing. And if it is races or classes, it will be a very popular and often requested one.

I honestly think that they should go against the wishes of community on this and do the right thing in revamping the world, fixing evergreen content, etc, adding player housing, rebuilding world, etc.

It will also allow for a better, more intimate story as we rebuild what's been broken. Imagine going back to the roots for a period of time; having a long quest line that follows the aftermath of the burning of Teldrassil and resettling of NE instead of some cosmic bullshit that we do now.

We got tons of community-requested stuff like allied races recently, and so what? BfA and Shadowlands are still failures. Players' appetite for new shiny toys will never dwindle, while tons of old content is just sitting there doing nothing.

A successful expansion akin to Legion is just it, a successful expansion. It is not a guarantee for future successes (why did they throw out class halls?? They were already implemented & loved by the players), while trying to fix the endgame & content delivery drought by trying a different approach in 10.0 is vital for longevity of the game. I'd compare making one huge & successful expansion akin to winning a battle while Blizzard needs to think how to win a war.

Cataclysm wasn't well received but it was necessary for the health of the game. And it's been 12 years since it came out. 10.0 needs to more than just a batch of good content, it needs setup a stage for the next 10 years of WoW.

[Revamp Man]

Absolutely. They need an absolutely bonkers content-rich expansion with new toys that will keep us entertained for a long long time. I would say it will take three items from the triangle of two new races, a new class, player housing. And if it is races or classes, it will be a very popular and often requested one.

one thing i think they got right in 9.2 is collector content with pocopoc and the mount and pet crafting
they arent going to drop that

they will also keep the crafting stuff with added items because it will keep people focused on professions AND can give archeology meaning

player housing is definitely a possibility because they have shown with sanctums and garrisons that players will grind stuff for cosmetic rewards even if it is slightly phased

if they dont repeat the same mistakes from bfa and SL (dropping fun stuff because they want to reinvent the wheel) then i can see this


archeology used for the optional reagents for crafting items
player housing hub where like garrisons area are phased and you have choice about things to go for from materials to cosmetics and so forth

they will definitely add a new class and probably rework some existing ones in order to keep it from being too samey or seem too familiar like with demon hunters where the playstyle is super flashy and unique with a few abilities renamed from other classes

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly think that they should go against the wishes of community in this and do the right thing in revamping the world, fixing evergreen content.
We got tons of community-requested stuff like allied races recently, and so what? BfA and Shadowlands are still failures.

A successful expansion akin to Legion is just it, a successful expansion. It is not a guarantee for future successes while trying to fix the endgame & content delivery drought by trying a different approach in 10.0 is vital for longevity of the game. I'd compare making one huge & successful expansion akin to winning a battle while Blizzard needs to think how to win a war.

content drought solution is being added and personally i love the idea
each expansion will always have a drought and instead of letting players be bored with the same old stuff of 1 patch worth of content being meaningful they bring all of the content up so if you want to do launch raids you can and still feel rewarded

a lot of the things that you could view as failures in the last two expansions were things that players complained about at the time

[Wangming]

I honestly think that they should go against the wishes of community

I can see where you are coming from, but this is the single worst thing they can do with the current health of the game. Support for WoW in particular and Blizzard in general was never this low, ever. Sure they can revamp the whole thing, make it cross-platform, have action combat, add features that can be added to indefinitely and design open-world exploration that would make Genshin Impact look like a rail shooter and have the whole thing run on Unreal 5.
But first they need the carrot on the stick. Especially since a revamp on the scale that is required would take a lot of time and after the most content light expansion ever with the longest delays, they can hardly afford that.

[Nymrohd]

This is not the way to come back after the failure of Shadowlands. They need a big expansion like Legion in order to make up for two flops (BfA -> SL) in a row. Although, in a way they're in a much worse state now than they were after WoD, so if they want to redeem the game they need something that's even bigger than Legion. "A slow revamp" and "evergreen content" sounds like a pathway to F2P to me, which I don't like the sound of.

I mean a Slow Revamp and Evergreen Content are possible and even great features, just with a full expansion also happening. The Ashes of Galakaros concept (leak) went for a slow revamp idea and that can work. Back when Legion Timewalking entered the game with M+ and Mage Tower, many content creators and forums posters seemed excited about the idea of a full Timewalking revamp with some form of Timewalking always being available and being far more extensive than what we have now (and with WoD dungeons joining M+, Blizzard seems to agree).

What is most important is not the box content anyway. It's the release schedule. Shadowlands, BfA, WoD all had solid content on release. Heck BfA had solid content throughout the expansion, it just had a dumpsterfire of a story and started and ended with very problematic systems. What 10.0 can do on release to get them to be more forgiving is to have a system that doesn't completely fail (it doesn't need to be great but it must be better than Azerite and not as inflexible as Covenants) and possibly a good amount of fanservice. The fanservice alone will bring the day one sales they need. What the next expansion MUST do though is give us frequent patch content that matches the cadence of MoP and Legion.

[Pheraz]

I honestly think that they should go against the wishes of community on this and do the right thing in revamping the world, fixing evergreen content, etc, adding player housing, rebuilding world, etc.

It will also allow for a better, more intimate story as we rebuild what's been broken. Imagine going back to the roots for a period of time; having a long quest line that follows the aftermath of the burning of Teldrassil and resettling of NE instead of some cosmic bullshit that we do now.

We got tons of community-requested stuff like allied races recently, and so what? BfA and Shadowlands are still failures. Players' appetite for new shiny toys will never dwindle, while tons of old content is just sitting there doing nothing.

A successful expansion akin to Legion is just it, a successful expansion. It is not a guarantee for future successes (why did they throw out class halls?? They were already implemented & loved by the players), while trying to fix the endgame & content delivery drought by trying a different approach in 10.0 is vital for longevity of the game. I'd compare making one huge & successful expansion akin to winning a battle while Blizzard needs to think how to win a war.

Cataclysm wasn't well received but it was necessary for the health of the game. And it's been 12 years since it came out. 10.0 needs to more than just a batch of good content, it needs setup a stage for the next 10 years of WoW.

What you are asking for is a bit quarterly report Vs long sustainable product.
Making a shiny new expansion is nice for marketing and you can grab the cash. I think both BFA and SL were bought very often. I think you are right but I would be surprised if they would be that smart

[Varodoc]

Did you people know that Alleria Windrunner noted that the Ren'dorei, unlike the Dragons, resisted the whispers of the Void? So Canonically the Ren'dorei have stronger willpower than the Dragons, because they resisted the whispers. I can't wait for future interactions between Alleria and the Dragon Aspects, where the Aspects will ask Alleria questions on how to resist the Void and will ask for teachings on the subject! Great storylines are coming, soon my long wait (wait that has been going on since BfA patch 8.1) will be rewarded, soon my favourite race will finally be in the spotlight.

[Shadochi]

Honestly even if they don't add anything mechanically I believe racial class skins would do much more at the moment for WoW than a new class. However these two could also work together. For example the T class is something that could properly be pulled off way better with racial class skins so that Draenei can be Artificers and such

- - - Updated - - -

Did you people know that Alleria Windrunner noted that the Ren'dorei, unlike the Dragons, resisted the whispers of the Void? So Canonically the Ren'dorei have stronger willpower than the Dragons, because they resisted the whispers. I can't wait for future interactions between Alleria and the Dragon Aspects, where the Aspects will ask Alleria questions on how to resist the Void and will ask for teachings on the subject! Great storylines are coming, soon my long wait (wait that has been going on since BfA patch 8.1) will be rewarded, soon my favourite race will finally be in the spotlight.

Are you sure? Didn't Wrathion also resist the whispers of the void? And yes we did know that since it was the second or third time I heard you mention it in the last week.

It doesn't have anything to do with willpower. It has to do that Black dragons have been longer exposed to the void to seep into their minds. We still don't know long term exposure (like thousands of years) effects on other races. Also, canonically without Wrathion's cloak any race mortal succumbs to N'zoths corruption within the last 2 bosses of Nyalotha

[Vakir]

Are you sure? Didn't Wrathion also resist the whispers of the void? And yes we did know that since it was the second or third time I heard you mention it in the last week.

Don't engage.

[Magnagarde]

meh pandas and the fox race are fine, you will be surprise how they are popular ~~reasons. Mechagnomes was inevitable going to happen because the quest, and cyborg gnomes look much better than normal gnomes imo.

The thing I look at when it comes to the Mechagnomes is what concept they bring to the table, as opposed to the gnomes that are playable since the game's launch. The original gnomes bring a theme of engineering, mechanical prowess and ingenuity with them, which is the same theme that Mechagnomes have. Mechagnome should've been a customization option for standard gnomes, with different limbs being replaced by robotic parts. It absolutely makes sense for the gnomes we already have.

I look at it the same way I look at the First Ones; they're doing the same things the Titans are doing; in the case of Shadowlands, they're bringing order to the afterlives. Their architecture is the same, they're creating mechanical servants just like the Titans do and they, surprise surprise, disappeared just like the Titans disappeared from Azeroth. They're simply a higher level of Titans.

This is why I think that the Mechagnomes are one of the worst additions to the game, who could've been implemented as a customization option for gnomes and nobody would tell the difference. It is simply lazy to implement races like this.

[Santandame]

Full World Revamp
New Zones including Dragon Isles, Undermine, Tel'Abim, Plunder Isle, Zul'Dare
New Class - Tinker/Bard/Dragonsworn
New Races/Allied Races
Some sort of big, dynamic feature involving the open world, and the world revamp. Pretty much the Living World string datamined
An evolution of Torghast, fitting in the theme of the expansion
A greater focus on Timewalking

This is what I see happening next expansion, and I would be happy with that. Pretty much Cataclysm 2.0 with shades of MoP and Classic.

Throw in extras on top such as Class Skins and Player Housing, and I would be extremely happy.

It's going to be a big expansion, everything points towards it. We can't expect any less. If it isn't a big expansion with a full world revamp with lots of big and highly sought features on top - then I'll be extremely shocked and will not be ashamed to have egg on my face.

[PhillyCheese]

Considering 10.0 mechanically may have been being devised since BFA (see: Dark Ranger quest and how many big Azeroth things happen to get followed up on post SL) I think its right to be hyped this time.

The only damper I have is still whether or not its both continents as well as Living World being something more than just cosmetic: AFAIK, at the moment it just refers to skybox changes when moving through zones.

- - - Updated - - -

Proper player housing would be awesome, not gonna lie. Also all that talk last time about more racial druid forms got me thinking. And boy does racial identity need some work. Heritage armor was a good step in the right direction, but I would like for 10.0 to do for races what Legion did for classes.

Just for fun let us look at the races and how well they are doing:

Alliance
- Supposedly Anduin is the leader, but he has been chilling in the Maw with us and being a bit edgy on the side.

Stormwind - led by Regent Turalyon, who has fuck all to do with Stormwind, considering he is from Lordaeron. At least the park has been repaired now.
Dwarves - Cityup, Council doing fine, basically the only race with their shit together.
Night Elves - Well, they kinda don't have a capital and Tyrande is in the SL, so I guess Malfurion is leading them. Unless he is sleeping again.
Gnomes - They still didn't fully recover Gnomeregan, cause Blizzard really wants to keep that dungeon. Essentially stagnating since Vanilla.
Draenei - They still live in a crashed ship since TBC. Like repair it maybe, please? At least Velen is doing fine, even after he was forced to kill his son and childhood friends.
Worgen - Half of Gilneas is underwater since the cataclysm, the other half was carpet-bombed with plague, their other home was Darnassus. They kinda don't have a capital. At least not in game. Genn is doing fine but has no male heir.
Pandaren - They have a small camp in Stormwind, and that's it. Even the proper, Pandaren on Pandaria don't have a leader or a proper Capital City.
Dark Iron Dwarves - Well they kinda have a capital that is accessible as well, but not to the point of a proper city.
Lightforged - They have a ship.
Void Elves - They have a very small pocket dimension, I guess.
Mechagnomes - Their capital city is a dungeon
Kul Tiras - Their Admiral is chilling in the afterlife with us, so not sure about the leadership.

The scale of how well they are doing is from Night Elves to Dwarves.

Horde
Their new warchief is........nobody. This kinda takes away from what the Horde was. Honestly with the Alliance having a High King, and the Horde having a council, with no defined leader, it seems the core ideas of the two factions have changed. So that means we will kill the High King every second expansion?
Orcs - They just gave up and gave back leadership to Thrall because they can't be bothered to invent new compelling characters. I would still make Nazgrim the leaderi. AND a warchief.
Darkspear Trolls - Rokhan is a good choice for a leader. However, they still don't have their own city.
Tauren - Baine has been stuck in the Shadowlands, which is probably the best thing that happened to the tauren since...forever.
Forsaken - They will get their capital back, but only after next patch. Voss is on the council, Calia is the most likely leade. None of them have much to do with the actual Forsaken. They kinda need to reinvent themselves cause so far they have been a Sylvanas Cult pretty much. (Dark Lady watch over you, Victory for Sylvanas....etc)
Goblins - They don't have a capital and Gazlowe is technically from a different Cartel. Whatever the fuck Gallywix is up to is another lose end.
Pandaren - Same shit with the Alliance. Small camp in Orgrimmar, that is all.
Blood Elves - Half of Silvermoon is still ruined, Lor'Themar still acts as if he is just a regent. Spent most of his time intimidated by Sylvanas.
Nightborne - While only the Nighthold got updated post Legion they are still pretty much the dwarves of the Horde. Capital intact and reachable, racial leader from the same race and not stuck in the afterlife, things are looking good.
Highmountain Tauren - also doing well. Though their capital is not the most equipped.
Mag'har - AU orcs lead by Rule 63 Thrall. They share the capital with the other orcs lead by the other Thrall.
Zandalari - They have capital, they have a leader. It's fine.
Vulpera - They don't have a capital, but they are nomads, so it's all good.

All in all it seems the Horde is doing better, mostly on the Allied Race front. But still, not many of them can honestly say they have a proper capital and a real racial leader.

I think its important to note here how many pre-Panda race stories got an update in BFA, which points to their "new arcs" being set up for a new EK/Kalimdor quest experience.

We have huge things like Forsaken/Nelf, mid-tier things like the gnome kingdom and the goblin leadership change, and even small things like Rokhan finally being leader. Even the belfs get a lore update in 9.2.5 with the securing of Ghostlands. Even if people didn't like it, Baine being the major Horde traitor also sets up some possible plots and kind of finally smashes the "Tauren feel guilty about the Forsaken" plotline of old.

The Horde Council thing smells hugely like something that will be used in a new Kalimdor questing experience as why even bother doing it if we're just farting around on the Dragon Isles? And I disagree that it isn't cool because it fits the Horde much more than a Warchief IMO. If anything Azeroth should get something similar (High King is budget Warchief always has been) and hopefully Turalyon will do something that proves why the concept isn't good.

[Wangming]

Pretty much Cataclysm 2.0 with shades of MoP and Classic.

Throw in extras on top such as Class Skins and Player Housing, and I would be extremely happy.

It's going to be a big expansion, everything points towards it. We can't expect any less. If it isn't a big expansion with a full world revamp with lots of big and highly sought features on top - then I'll be extremely shocked and will not be ashamed to have egg on my face.

Yeah well I do see Player Housing and Full world revamp on the wishlist consistently enough so this is definitely what the players are asking for. Personally I would at least revamp all the starting areas. Even if you start all your characters in that new dumb island, a lot of capitals are stuck in the past. Oh and a proper intro questline for Death Knights.

- - - Updated - - -

I think its important to note here how many pre-Panda race stories got an update in BFA, which points to their "new arcs" being set up for a new EK/Kalimdor quest experience.

We have huge things like Forsaken/Nelf, mid-tier things like the gnome kingdom and the goblin leadership change, and even small things like Rokhan finally being leader. Even the belfs get a lore update in 9.2.5 with the securing of Ghostlands. Even if people didn't like it, Baine being the major Horde traitor also sets up some possible plots and kind of finally smashes the "Tauren feel guilty about the Forsaken" plotline of old.

The Horde Council thing smells hugely like something that will be used in a new Kalimdor questing experience as why even bother doing it if we're just farting around on the Dragon Isles? And I disagree that it isn't cool because it fits the Horde much more than a Warchief IMO. If anything Azeroth should get something similar (High King is budget Warchief always has been) and hopefully Turalyon will do something that proves why the concept isn't good.

I'm up for new questlines, but the timelines are so fucked up, not even Nozdormu can unentangle them. They need to make permanent changes. I know they don't like the idea, but it's not like that stuff will go missing. We already have two versions of Classic WoW. So time to do some magic.

As for the Horde and the Alliance. the High King really is a bad idea. It defeats the purpose of an Alliance. But the Horde has always had a Warchif. It's how it was formed.
If I were Danuser i would commit suici...err I mean introduce a new young Orc that isn't a troublemaker like young Garrosh. I would make him very charismatic and have him slowly gain popularity both IRL and ingame. They could become a new Warchief who abolishes the council. And as subversion to the tired old tropes, make them actually be a phenomenal leader.

[PhillyCheese]

I'm up for new questlines, but the timelines are so fucked up, not even Nozdormu can unentangle them. They need to make permanent changes. I know they don't like the idea, but it's not like that stuff will go missing. We already have two versions of Classic WoW. So time to do some magic.

As for the Horde and the Alliance. the High King really is a bad idea. It defeats the purpose of an Alliance. But the Horde has always had a Warchif. It's how it was formed.
If I were Danuser i would commit suici...err I mean introduce a new young Orc that isn't a troublemaker like young Garrosh. I would make him very charismatic and have him slowly gain popularity both IRL and ingame. They could become a new Warchief who abolishes the council. And as subversion to the tired old tropes, make them actually be a phenomenal leader.

Now that Vanilla can be accessed at any time I think they will just shove everything on EK/Kalimdor into a "Cata" phase and make new maps, which carry over select zones from BFA-SL that got touched up (Arathi, Darkshore, Silithus, now Tirisfal... coincidence that it's 2/2?).

Like, there is no way they can keep the existing loading screens. Gallywix is whatever, but SYLVANAS? New players won't even know who she is, especially if they don't make Shadowlands mandatory leveling for noobs. Which I think is what will happen as it has no necessary plot hook and is disconnected from Azeroth. Another point on a new leveling questline.

[Wangming]

Now that Vanilla can be accessed at any time I think they will just shove everything on EK/Kalimdor into a Cata phase and make new maps, which carry over select zones from BFA-SL that got touched up (Arathi, Darkshore, Silithus, now Tirisfal).

Like, there is no way they can keep the existing loading screens. Gallywix is whatever, but SYLVANAS? New players won't even know who she is, especially if they don't make Shadowlands mandatory leveling for noobs. Which I think is what will happen as it has no necessary plot hook and is disconnected from Azeroth. Another point on a new leveling questline.

Oh absolutely they need new Loading Screens. Granted, whichever leveling path they pick will be super weird anyway due to random characters being there who later aren't. BUT for current time, as in post-SL.

Kalimdor still has both Gallywix and Vol'Jin on them. EK has freakin Varian, along with Sylvanas on. Yep, that needs to change.

[PhillyCheese]

Oh absolutely they need new Loading Screens. Granted, whichever leveling path they pick will be super weird anyway due to random characters being there who later aren't. BUT for current time, as in post-SL.

Kalimdor still has both Gallywix and Vol'Jin on them. EK has freakin Varian, along with Sylvanas on. Yep, that needs to change.

I mean I think they are going to walk back how many lore characters are on the new landmasses this time. They probably felt that Shadowlands NEEDED characters like Baine and Jaina even if they didn't do anything because of the alien feeling, but if it's Dragon Isles or different islands scattered all over there's no need for Thrall to be there instead of Khadgar and the aspects.

So the leaders will stay in their zones like olden days. Also a way to update the "kill the warchiefs" quests!

If it really is Dragon Isles I can see only Jaina going but technically the leader of Kul Tiras is Lady Proudmoore while she's away.