Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[DatToffer]

Imo, if Pantheon of Life isn’t like the next main factor for content (Outside of Zovaal invading Reality/Azeroth of course), then I’ll eat my shorts. Cause clearly Death alone won’t be enough to stop Zovaal, and SL has had LOTS of Life and Death balance themes this expac.

On one hand, I don't want the Plane of Life to fit one only patch. On the other hand, I don't think there's variety enough in the concept to make a full expansion.

What has Warcraft given us for Life until now ? Forest, forest, forest, forest, forest, forest, forest, forest, forest, GREEN

[Pheraz]

No, because unlike the Scourge these guys have free will. That's rather the point.

Okay maybe I am mixing up two things here. However I just dislike the idea of a scourge-like theme inside the shadowlands.
This whole creepyness of undeath is missed. a plague transforming living people into undead beeing is creepy.
Also putting different parts of different ex-living bodies together and animate them with death magic is also creepy.

All this stuff does not fit into a realm of souls and all this creepyness is gone in Maldraxxus because those are not parts of living beings - or was the flesh send via an inter dimensional gateway? .
And on top of this where my "absurd" feelings come from is when I interact between those things-that-make-no-sense and run around with some bone guys vs flesh guys shouting "for maldraxxxxus".

The Maw fits, souls are beeing tortured and so on. Kind of like "hell" or the "anti paradise".

[TheFirstOnes]

im wondering if the gardens of life are on elunaria

Elunaria is a Titan sanctuary world made by Eonar so that her essence could hide from the Dark Titan and his forces.

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Okay maybe I am mixing up two things here. However I just dislike the idea of a scourge-like theme inside the shadowlands.
This whole creepyness of undeath is missed. a plague transforming living people into undead beeing is creepy.
Also putting different parts of different ex-living bodies together and animate them with death magic is also creepy.

All this stuff does not fit into a realm of souls and all this creepyness is gone in Maldraxxus because those are not parts of living beings - or was the flesh send via an inter dimensional gateway? .
And on top of this where my "absurd" feelings come from is when I interact between those things-that-make-no-sense and run around with some bone guys vs flesh guys shouting "for maldraxxxxus".

The Maw fits, souls are beeing tortured and so on. Kind of like "hell" or the "anti paradise".

I mean, you have to have a source for the scourge, no?

Also, I’d say Maldraxxus isn’t supposed to be “creepy” to begin with. It’s built like an 80’s rock death match battlefield, and you can clearly see that in both visuals aswell as music.

The scourge was creepy mainly because of how it affected mortals in reality, but that’s it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I mean, you have to have a source for the scourge, no?

The existential fear of death and decay was plenty of reason for the scourge to look like the scourge. Shoehorning in some nonsense realm like that on the other hand? Not so much. Especially given that all "flesh" in the shadowlands is just anima anyway. So the practice of stiching together flesh golems makes not even a lick of sense, given that we know they can look however they want in the first place.

[Dracullus]

Lol, checked Asmon and he's already back to bitching about retail. And few weeks ago some people here thought TBC and 9.1 must be really far apart cause hype for TBC will last weeks xD.

About SL, whole concept of afterlife ruins every story, cause death of character become meaningless. But WoW has already time travel/alternate universe, so you know, who cares.

[Kiivar86]

About SL, whole concept of afterlife ruins every story, cause death of character become meaningless. But WoW has already time travel/alternate universe, so you know, who cares.

How so?

The Afterlife and adventures in it is a tale as old as humanity. Countless mythologies have heroes go to their respective underworlds/afterlife for one reason or another (Greek with Orpheus and Heracles, Japanese with Izanagi, Mesopotamian with Enkidu, Osiris in Egyptian myth, Dante in the Divine Comedy, etc). Doesn't make death meaningless in those tales.

[Nyel]

How so?

The Afterlife and adventures in it is a tale as old as humanity. Countless mythologies have heroes go to their respective underworlds/afterlife for one reason or another (Greek with Orpheus and Heracles, Japanese with Izanagi, Mesopotamian with Enkidu, Osiris in Egyptian myth, Dante in the Divine Comedy, etc). Doesn't make death meaningless in those tales.

Because death still has a meaning there. In WoW it doesn't. The Shadowlands are a happy place for afterlive, Hades & Co. aren't.

[TheFirstOnes]

Because death still has a meaning there. In WoW it doesn't. The Shadowlands are a happy place for afterlive, Hades & Co. aren't.

The Shadowlands most definitely aren't a happy place.

[Nyel]

The Shadowlands most definitely aren't a happy place.

Besides The Maw none of the zones are intimidating or correctly representing the finality of death. It just feels exactly like another life and not like death. The Shadowlands are very similar to the representation of afterlife like it's been done in the TV show "The Good Place". I'd rather have something dark and sinister and dreadful though.

[TheFirstOnes]

Oh look, Bellular made the 90th WoW shittalk vid this week...*Yawns*

I don't get what "issues" there are outside of Torghast being complete dogshit and Conduits being at most annoying. The game itself is pretty on the nose, this expac.

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At worst, I'd say SL is boring asf. But that's it. I'm loving 9.1 so far.

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I also find it funny how guys like Bellular talk shit about 9.1 when I know damn well they have not done the PTR yet.

[Kiivar86]

Because death still has a meaning there. In WoW it doesn't. The Shadowlands are a happy place for afterlive, Hades & Co. aren't.

The Greek underworld has the Elysian Fields (though it originally was separate, but it still was an afterlife). Norse myth (another place where heroes and gods visit their respective underworld) has things like Valhalla.

There are plenty of "happy" afterlives in myth.

I also find it funny how guys like Bellular talk shit about 9.1 when I know damn well they have not done the PTR yet.

Doesn't he not even play anymore? that's what I keep hearing, anyway.

[TheFirstOnes]

Besides The Maw none of the zones are intimidating or correctly representing the finality of death. It just feels exactly like another life and not like death. The Shadowlands are very similar to the representation of afterlife like it's been done in the TV show "The Good Place". I'd rather have something dark and sinister and dreadful though.

I mean...if you played SL, you'd learn that it's exactly like that. It's an afterlife. Death's simply a beginning to a new eternity.

[Sondrelk]

The Shadowlands most definitely aren't a happy place.

I mean, they are happy enough from what we are seeing.

Two out of five we know is hell and purgatory. And in the case of Revendreth those who are not being punished are souls who are seemingly happy with their jobs being vampires and all.
Two are afterlives for the dutiful. Maldraxxus is not necessarily happy but those who are sent there also seem to love battle, and Bastion might be work, but it also seems relaxing.
Ardwnweald are filled with souls who are either being catered to while they sleep or genuinely love nature and tending to it.

The maw is the only genuinely unpleasant afterlife, and the rest seems happy enough when we remember they are currently in an extraordinary drought and internal conflict.

[Dracullus]

snip

Dude it's like quoting The Sun as source of info. Bellurar is a joke.


But sadly even more reasonable people say stupid shit. I saw in recent Preach video where he complained that... flying require 40 Renown. And SL are not alt friendly, cause he's bored playing his 12 alts.

Yeah, listening to high-end raiders wasn't best choice after BfA. No titanforging and progression outside hard content made lot of casuals quit - and raiders are STILL not happy.

How so?

The Afterlife and adventures in it is a tale as old as humanity. Countless mythologies have heroes go to their respective underworlds/afterlife for one reason or another (Greek with Orpheus and Heracles, Japanese with Izanagi, Mesopotamian with Enkidu, Osiris in Egyptian myth, Dante in the Divine Comedy, etc). Doesn't make death meaningless in those tales.

Good point. Maybe not exactly afterlife, but changing rules in middle of story is source of problem.

[TheFirstOnes]

I mean, they are happy enough from what we are seeing.

Two out of five we know is hell and purgatory. And in the case of Revendreth those who are not being punished are souls who are seemingly happy with their jobs being vampires and all.
Two are afterlives for the dutiful. Maldraxxus is not necessarily happy but those who are sent there also seem to love battle, and Bastion might be work, but it also seems relaxing.
Ardwnweald are filled with souls who are either being catered to while they sleep or genuinely love nature and tending to it.

The maw is the only genuinely unpleasant afterlife, and the rest seems happy enough when we remember they are currently in an extraordinary drought and internal conflict.

Bastion is full of bias and "duty" and shit like that, and we literally have a questline focused on reshaping what Bastion is as a whole because of its BS. Ardenweald's prolly the only good "realm", and their queen is a depressed bitch that thinks her sister from the Pantheon of Life (Potentially) dipped on her.

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Dude it's like quoting The Sun as source of info. Bellurar is a joke.


But sadly even more reasonable people say stupid shit. I saw in recent Preach video where he complained that... flying require 40 Renown. And SL are not alt friendly, cause he's bored playing his 12 alts.

Yeah, listening to high-end raiders wasn't best choice after BfA. No titanforging and progression outside hard content made lot of casuals quit - and raiders STILL are not happy.

"WHY DOES FLYING REQUIRE RENOWN 40"

If you aren't renown 40 now, there's something wrong with you. Blizzard has added so many catch-up things, and they're adding even more in 9.1. Like, what the fuck...

Also, holy shit...Flying at worst requires you to wait till week 2 of the patch. Like, how's that bad?

"And SL are not alt friendly, cause he's bored playing his 12 alts."

9.1 IS THE BEST CATCH UP PATCH IN WOW HISTORY! THE FUCK???

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Also "I WANT SOMETHING DARK AND DREADFUL" is the worst argument I've heard of in a long time regarding SL...

Maldraxxus, the Forsworn in Bastion, Revendreth, and the Maw are dark asf. What the hell...

[Raetary]

About SL, whole concept of afterlife ruins every story, cause death of character become meaningless. But WoW has already time travel/alternate universe, so you know, who cares.

The concept of the afterlife is as old as humanity.
'What happens after death' is one of the oldest, if not THE oldest trope in history.

The reason why wows take on it sucks is because of Blizzards inability to care, stay coherent and produce meaningful stories.
Instead we get an underwhelming mess that's riddled with plotholes and dialogue that rivals an edgy middle schoolers fanfiction in quality.

Not because the concept sucks.

Oh look, Bellular made the 90th WoW shittalk vid this week...*Yawns*

For a person that you don't like, you sure love to talk and advertise his videos a lot.

Maybe... idk, don't give him free views?

[TheFirstOnes]

The concept of the afterlife is as old as humanity.
'What happens after death' is one of the oldest, if not THE oldest trope in history.

The reason why wows take on it sucks is because of Blizzards inability to care, stay coherent and produce meaningful stories.
Instead we get an underwhelming mess that's riddled with plotholes and dialogue that rivals an edgy middle schoolers fanfiction in quality.

Not because the concept sucks.



For a person that you don't like, you sure love to talk and advertise his videos a lot.

Maybe... idk, don't give him free views?

I didn't even click on it. I just right clicked the video and pressed on "Copy video link"



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Also, what's full of plotholes and shit regarding SL? I'd love to know.

[Dracullus]

The concept of the afterlife is as old as humanity.
'What happens after death' is one of the oldest, if not THE oldest trope in history.

The reason why wows take on it sucks is because of Blizzards inability to care, stay coherent and produce meaningful stories.
Instead we get an underwhelming mess that's riddled with plotholes and dialogue that rivals an edgy middle schoolers fanfiction in quality.

Not because the concept sucks.

'What happens after dead' is oldest trope. But it is a mystery, even in mythos we just get a glimpse. I would say it's even archetype of mystery, which also makes life itself more interesting.

It's like death of Laura Palmer in Twin Peaks - before we knew who's killer show was amazing, after that went to shit instantly (until Lynch came back and introduced new mystery).

In SL we go to afterlife and explore whole thing like Disneyland, including politics going on there. And I'm not sure we should call it afterlife, since you can have "true death" here. They went full Dragon Ball with main WoW plot. Maybe they didn't even had much choice, draging story for so long isn't natural.

[Raetary]

I didn't even click on it. I just right clicked the video and pressed on "Copy video link"

.... Yes, you linked a video on another site for more people to see.
Granting the creator, that you ah so much dislike, more attention, views and therefore money.

Or in other words 'free advertisement'.

Whether you personally watched it means absolutely nothing.

Also, what's full of plotholes and shit regarding SL? I'd love to know.

The inescapable Maw that everyone can escape from provided they can fly?
The Soulstream in Oribos relies on the Kyrian to fuel it, but at the same time doesn't which renders their existence meaningless?
Sylvanas and her 10D chess persona in its entirety?
How AU souls are handled?
Us talking to souls on Azeroth that hold their former personality yet have been fundamentally changed since their deaths?

[Nyel]

I mean...if you played SL, you'd learn that it's exactly like that. It's an afterlife. Death's simply a beginning to a new eternity.

I played Shadowlands and read every quest (as I do that once every time I play a new expansion). It's still not like the gruesome afterlife I'd expect. If we leave the ongoing brainwashing aside, Bastion and Ardenweald are happy places. In Maldraxxus the people do what they always did and like it. The only zone with some consequences is... Revendreth.