Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

One idea for a future expansion (not 10.0) would be to merge Light with an Outland Revamp by having Yrel's forces somehow MERGE Outland and Draenor, having parts of their world superimposed on our timeline's Draenor. So it could have things like Karabor but also keep Netherstorm (a revamped Netherstorm!), it could show us what Yrel's side was talking about; their Draenor dying presumable because of something the orcs did (or X'era did and blamed it on them). So not just more zones on Draenor but a revamp that merges both locations in one space in the main timeline.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Argus just failed in that regard indeed. It entirely felt like a sci fi setting with Legion space ships and technology. Instead of building on the monstrous nature of what was happening (Legion "tech" is entirely built on enslaving populations and then sacrificing them to burn their souls as fuel) the aesthetic was far more scifi than demonic.
I think this was a problem with both Legion and BfA. Their final patches needed to be actual expansions. I actually think it was even worse with Argus than with N'zoth. The scale was just too small. The Legion just fell over. The Army of Light was not at all impressive; instead of something grand it was a struggling tiny force of Draenei with some token characters thrown in; made no sense why they would even survive unless the Legion just did not consider them a threat (which given their scale, they shouldn't; we were vastly more impressive than the Army of Light).
Argus could have had multiple biomes, be besieged by both Light and Void at the same time and by grand forces on both sides and still be winning until we show up and tip the balance. And have the Army of Light actually composed of multiple races and have like 2-3 Tempest Keep sized battleships.

I would say that I very much agree—an expansion on Argus would be very excellent, indeed. Although it would somewhat cause some of the same issues as Shadowlands did in regards to cosmic exhaustion, I do think it could've given us much more in the way of interesting, fantastical adventures there.

I could imagine us on a massive, sprawling fortress with our Argussian allies—the Army of the Light, consisting of all races we've ever seen as well as Lightforged Draenei, Nathrezim and even Mo'arg forming a frontline against the Legion. The Legion could've looked more like something out of 40k (which, somehow, would make it look more fantasy), with gargantuan fortresses made of corpses and living materials, souls streaming through them. We could've also seen the industrial side of the Legion and even their civilian side—Mac'aree, besieged, could've been a great city of golden towers and opulence which is gradually crumbling under the bombardment of the Army of the Light and the Void. The Army of the Light, instead of a few survivors, would've consisted a truly massive army capable of standing toe-to-toe with the Legion on fairly even ground.

I could see many fascinating zones, plotlines, and cosmic worldbuilding opportunities coming out of it. Instead, we got "space lol so sci-fi". The worldbuilding could've even been a good time to introduce the whole geometry theme, as well as potentially spotlight the Light and Void as the top forces in the same role as Blizzard later shoved the First Ones into in Shadowlands. There could've been so much in the way of interesting development for a "proper" cosmic expansion played like a real fantasy setting like Planescape instead of a cheap Science Fantasy thing. The Legion's aesthetic is one very good point—I dislike their aesthetic just being "green and black towers lol". I picture something properly evil, massive fortresses made of skin and spines and whathaveyou, as well as a dark red color scheme that feels more like an evil realm in fantasy. Similarly, the Army of the Light could've taken a full geometry motif rather than just being "Yellow Draenei", with the Naaru's design inspiring flying fortresses and even cities of white, floating crystals and unique and possibly only pseudo-Euclidean geometry.

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One idea for a future expansion (not 10.0) would be to merge Light with an Outland Revamp by having Yrel's forces somehow MERGE Outland and Draenor, having parts of their world superimposed on our timeline's Draenor. So it could have things like Karabor but also keep Netherstorm (a revamped Netherstorm!), it could show us what Yrel's side was talking about; their Draenor dying presumable because of something the orcs did (or X'era did and blamed it on them). So not just more zones on Draenor but a revamp that merges both locations in one space in the main timeline.

That could be interesting. I'd say that Draenor could've just been used, though. So much was underutilized and underexplored that we could get something interesting out of just returning, I think.

[Catastrophy349]

One idea for a future expansion (not 10.0) would be to merge Light with an Outland Revamp by having Yrel's forces somehow MERGE Outland and Draenor, having parts of their world superimposed on our timeline's Draenor. So it could have things like Karabor but also keep Netherstorm (a revamped Netherstorm!), it could show us what Yrel's side was talking about; their Draenor dying presumable because of something the orcs did (or X'era did and blamed it on them). So not just more zones on Draenor but a revamp that merges both locations in one space in the main timeline.

Not bad ideas; however, I would prefer a Northrend revamp/revisit over Outland, again, since we had both Outland and Draenor.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I saw someone on reddit mention there was a leak on this site that correctly guessed Sylvanas' punishment

Everyone and every leak predicted it.

[Sondrelk]

Alright, that's fair enough, but I never denied any of that—in fact, some of that is what I was saying. I don't see why that might necessitate a Siege of Stormwind, though.

The Siege of Orgrimmar raid migh have seemed like a hit to the Horde on the surface, but on a purely developer attention level 5.4 is the most Horde biased patch the game has ever seen. The questing leading up to the raid barely even acknowledged teh Alliance existed, and Orgrimmar as a city got a whole ton of attention, from upgrades to broken buildings, NPC events, and heavy useage of lesser known NPCs.

The Alliance being hit with the villain bat would be annoying for sure, but it would be balanced out by actually giving a whole lot of focus to the Alliance as a whole, in addition to really showcasing Stormwind and it's many NPCs.
Maybe we have an expansion to the catacombs, or raidbosses in the unused Stormwind Vault raid. Maybe we see various NPCs who are reallyy jsut there to sput single voicelines take a stand, joining us heroically or maybe even turn against us.

Really, a Stormwind raid would just be a cool idea. Especially when you consider that the odds of the Alliance getting hit squarely by the villain bat is quite low, so we would probably mostly just get the upsides. The Horde gets to attack Stormwind and maybe get themed gear. The Alliance gets to see Stormwind from a different angle. And Stormwind as a city would likely get lots of development.

[Nymrohd]

I would say that I very much agree—an expansion on Argus would be very excellent, indeed. Although it would somewhat cause some of the same issues as Shadowlands did in regards to cosmic exhaustion, I do think it could've given us much more in the way of interesting, fantastical adventures there.

I could imagine us on a massive, sprawling fortress with our Argussian allies—the Army of the Light, consisting of all races we've ever seen as well as Lightforged Draenei, Nathrezim and even Mo'arg forming a frontline against the Legion. The Legion could've looked more like something out of 40k (which, somehow, would make it look more fantasy), with gargantuan fortresses made of corpses and living materials, souls streaming through them. We could've also seen the industrial side of the Legion and even their civilian side—Mac'aree, besieged, could've been a great city of golden towers and opulence which is gradually crumbling under the bombardment of the Army of the Light and the Void. The Army of the Light, instead of a few survivors, would've consisted a truly massive army capable of standing toe-to-toe with the Legion on fairly even ground.

I could see many fascinating zones, plotlines, and cosmic worldbuilding opportunities coming out of it. Instead, we got "space lol so sci-fi". The worldbuilding could've even been a good time to introduce the whole geometry theme, as well as potentially spotlight the Light and Void as the top forces in the same role as Blizzard later shoved the First Ones into in Shadowlands. There could've been so much in the way of interesting development for a "proper" cosmic expansion played like a real fantasy setting like Planescape instead of a cheap Science Fantasy thing. The Legion's aesthetic is one very good point—I dislike their aesthetic just being "green and black towers lol". I picture something properly evil, massive fortresses made of skin and spines and whathaveyou, as well as a dark red color scheme that feels more like an evil realm in fantasy. Similarly, the Army of the Light could've taken a full geometry motif rather than just being "Yellow Draenei", with the Naaru's design inspiring flying fortresses and even cities of white, floating crystals and unique and possibly only pseudo-Euclidean geometry.

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That could be interesting. I'd say that Draenor could've just been used, though. So much was underutilized and underexplored that we could get something interesting out of just returning, I think.

I always had this pet theory that the Army of Light could have been where the Apexis Arakkoa ended up. We have a faction of extremely advanced Light users who specialize in using Crystals in their technology and disappeared while planning to build a "Temple in the Sky". Instead of all the Naaru tech being . . . Naaru (how do they even make things? No hands!) it could have been that they recruited the Apexis long ago and that their tech was made by them.

[Nymrohd]

Not bad ideas; however, I would prefer a Northrend revamp/revisit over Outland, again, since we had both Outland and Draenor.

I just think Outland has some of the most unique zones in WoW that could most profit from a graphics revamp. Can you imagine Netherstorm built with modern graphics?

[Sondrelk]

I saw someone on reddit mention there was a leak on this site that correctly guessed Sylvanas' punishment, and I seem to remember seeing it as well, it was posted around a month or two ago I believe which was way before any of it was datamined.

Which one was that?

Sylvanas punishment was basically determined to be this from the second we got the datamined voiceline from Sylvanas that she would search for Nathanos forever in the Shadowlands.
And that was ages ago, extremely early in the 9.2 PTR.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I always had this pet theory that the Army of Light could have been where the Apexis Arakkoa ended up. We have a faction of extremely advanced Light users who specialize in using Crystals in their technology and disappeared while planning to build a "Temple in the Sky". Instead of all the Naaru tech being . . . Naaru (how do they even make things? No hands!) it could have been that they recruited the Apexis long ago and that their tech was made by them.

I like that idea a lot. It also could've been used to introduce winged Arakkoa as a race to one faction or the other.

[Cherry123]

The book says that Anduin went on a journey with Sylvanas.

then why does he need a new model in 9.2.5

[Sondrelk]

I am talking about the one that stated she'd be going into the maw to seek out the souls she was responsible for sending there to begin with, nothing about Nathanos

Sylvanas was not killed as punishment.
She is free to search the Maw.
Therefore Sylvanas' punishment is likely Maw related.
Sylvanas' punishment is most likely saving souls in the Maw.

It was never a difficult leap.

[Nymrohd]

The book says that Anduin went on a journey with Sylvanas.

then why does he need a new model in 9.2.5

I think it implies that. But it could still be Nathanos instead. It's just someone wearing armor approaching Sylvanas. Scale armor is still armor.

[Mauderkin]

Sucks that any hope of a world revamp is dead now that the Blood Elf quests essentially confirm there was no time skip whatsoever in the Shadowlands.

[Sondrelk]

Sucks that any hope of a world revamp is dead now that the Blood Elf quests essentially confirm there was no time skip whatsoever in the Shadowlands.

Why is timeskip needed at all though? It's been years since Cataclysm in-game. There have been no less than 3 massive world-scale conflicts that have changes zones since then.
Just tell teh stories that are natural with so much happening.

[cocomen2]

The book says that Anduin went on a journey with Sylvanas.

then why does he need a new model in 9.2.5

He seen some shit in SL, and now twice as man than he was before it. (more cooler face and abs, i hope)

[Hitei]

The book says that Anduin went on a journey with Sylvanas.

then why does he need a new model in 9.2.5

Not sure why people are so puzzled about this. If he's decided not to go back, then he's also stepping down from the throne and is no longer king. Therefore he will probably not want to walk around in kingly armor or continue wielding Shalamayne after what it was used for.

The new model is almost certainly him getting rid of the armor and instead wearing some sort of simple robes/clothing (probably attendant/oribos inspired) to indicate that he's no longer King Anduin and instead is just Anduin the priest.

[Sableye]

Sylvanas punishment was basically determined to be this from the second we got the datamined voiceline from Sylvanas that she would search for Nathanos forever in the Shadowlands.
And that was ages ago, extremely early in the 9.2 PTR.

She isn't though, she's there for all the unjustly banished souls entombed in the maw and places like Torghast. There's been zero mentions of Nathanos since the prepatch. Like Blizzard forgot about him entirely.

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Not sure why people are so puzzled about this. If he's decided not to go back, then he's also stepping down from the throne and is no longer king. Therefore he will probably not want to walk around in kingly armor or continue wielding Shalamayne after what it was used for.

The new model is almost certainly him getting rid of the armor and instead wearing some sort of simple robes/clothing (probably attendant/oribos inspired) to indicate that he's no longer King Anduin and instead is just Anduin the priest.

He was being set up as this Uber-Priest WAAAAAAAAYYYY back in Mists of Pandaria but then they just made him a pally anyways. He's way more interesting as a priest ruling Stormwind, someone who's not a warrior and not ready to just jump into battle either without first exhausting all other options

[Super Dickmann]

On paper, having Anduin buckle under the strain and be de facto written out is the best thing to have happened to the factions in half a decade, freeing up both the Alliance and Horde to no longer have to rotate around his boring ass. In practice though, Anduin going to the Maw is terrible because there's no way the Devs will shelve him for more than one patch, which also means that Sylvanas is likely to come back with him.

[Hitei]

He was being set up as this Uber-Priest WAAAAAAAAYYYY back in Mists of Pandaria but then they just made him a pally anyways. He's way more interesting as a priest ruling Stormwind, someone who's not a warrior

Right but that's sort of my whole point.

His armor was him metaphorically stepping into the role of "King" like his father. He started using his father's weapon and started wearing heavy plate armor like his father. This was immediately shown as not suiting him at the start of BfA, when he ends up just throwing down the sword and using a priest spell. But he continues to hold onto that identity through the war until he lends Shalamayne to Saurfang. Just after that, he is taken. And then forced into becoming a pseudo Death Knight (an identity which also involves heavy plate armor and a sword of significance)

So now, where he's full of regret over what he did as a DK, and is abandoning the "King" identity he was imitating his father doing, he no longer has a need for the sword or armor, and instead will return to just being a repentant priest, wearing something more suited to that priest identity and not war-forged plate armor.

[Sondrelk]

She isn't though, she's there for all the unjustly banished souls entombed in the maw and places like Torghast. There's been zero mentions of Nathanos since the prepatch. Like Blizzard forgot about him entirely.

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He was being set up as this Uber-Priest WAAAAAAAAYYYY back in Mists of Pandaria but then they just made him a pally anyways. He's way more interesting as a priest ruling Stormwind, someone who's not a warrior

Nathanos was not mentioned by name, but Sylvanas did mention she would be looking for her true love, forever if that is what it took.
Or I guess the person saying this could be someone else. Point is that once this was datamined pretty much everyone on this forum at least accepted that Sylvanas' fate would be saving souls in the Maw. The later datamining session that found her jumping animation just sealed the deal.