Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[draugril]

Or rather his way too hot wife.

Raw charisma.

[Lahis]

Not if they don't use racial animations. In proper cutscenes you are put in situations that are flat out impossible with emotes. Like when you are captured by the guards in 2.55. There is no emote for "Lying on your side with your hands bound behind your back".

So how do you make one anination that interacts with environment and characters and works for both gnome and tauren?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Am I wrong tho? Fiction needs to reflect our modern problems. And Turalyon is definitely a relic of a bygone era. He is the embodiment of the Mighty Whitey trope, which is a racist trope. Through him, Blizzard writers can touch on many of the current issues of our society.

How is he a "mighty whitey" character? He strikes me more as a "knight in shining armor" trope, which actually reflects values (morality, selflessness, tenacity, hard work etc.) which I figure need to be promoted more in modern society.

[Makorus]

I mean, really, the only races in FFXIV who aren't just basic humanoids in FFXIV are Lalafell, Hrothgars and Roegadyns, maybe Au Ra.

The races aren't as extreme as they are in WoW.

[Vakir]

Based on the fact that the thing everyone is crying out for, rightfully, is MORE character customization, we're unlikely to see a version of WoW's storytelling that is as player driven in cutscenes as something like TOR or FF14.

We have ~17 full races NOW, but what about when they add more inevitably? What about classes, plus if class skins appear, and they need to add more animations indicating our characters doing something (like, for example, when we destroy something as a Frost Mage in a quest and we Cone of Cold the object)?

As it is in 14's cutscene, we mainly just draw a weapon and look resolute, but in a lot of physical cutscenes it pulls you out of your fantasy depending (like the duel with Lyse in SB, or the finale against Zenos in EW) and it straight dissolves into fisticuffs. And that works for the very Shonen anime tone and desperation aspect, but I don't see Blizzard doing that in WoW. The training montage in Mists for example already looked kinda silly. Even in 14 they rely on NPCs and pull out Estinien when they need to make an action scene happen.

Nah, WoW's whole cutscene storytelling style revolving around bigger than life leader/icon characters is...fine, the writing surrounding them just needs to be way better, and we still need to actually influence the events happening in some tangible way even if it's off screen (the ending to the Sylvanas and Anduin encounters are particularly egregious here - we may as well have not been there).

[Wangming]

So how do you make one anination that interacts with environment and characters and works for both gnome and tauren?

I wouldn't, because I'm not an animator. I don't want to pretend to know their job. But I know it has been done by others. And even if there are more and weirder character models, you are ignoring that FFXIV is way more cutscene heavy than WoW so that kinda evens it out.

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I mean, really, the only races in FFXIV who aren't just basic humanoids in FFXIV are Lalafell, Hrothgars and Roegadyns, maybe Au Ra.

The races aren't as extreme as they are in WoW.

You listed like, half the races though.

[Makorus]

I wouldn't, because I'm not an animator. I don't want to pretend to know their job. But I know it has been done by others. And even if there are more and weirder character models, you are ignoring that FFXIV is way more cutscene heavy than WoW so that kinda evens it out.

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You listed like, half the races though.

And your point is what exactly? That's still only like 5-6 different animations per cutscene.

[Wangming]

And your point is what exactly? That's still only like 5-6 different animations per cutscene.

My point is that an FFXIV patch has like twice as many cutscenes as an entire WoW expansion. I'm sure they can make the effort if they really want to.

[Makorus]

My point is that an FFXIV patch has like twice as many cutscenes as an entire WoW expansion. I'm sure they can make the effort if they really want to.

I don't think it's not that they don't want to or don't want to put the effort into it, it's just that they don't see the point.

Your character is not a part in the story. Sure, the character is "the Mawwalker" or "the Champion", but at the end of the day, you are just a blank slate with no real connection or anything to the world, unlike in GW2 or Final Fantasy XIV.


You are a side character in WoW while you are a main character in the other two.

[Vakir]

To add to my previous post, 14's animations also flow easier situationally because the WoL can hypothetically be any class at any given time with the right training and crystal, so we kinda go with certain concessions.

This (big spoilers) would never fly in WoW being done by a gnome mage or something. But it's metal as hell being done by the player character here because the tone and expectations are completely different.

We're AFGNCAAPs co-starring to big name leaders and that's fine.

[Baedril]

My point is that an FFXIV patch has like twice as many cutscenes as an entire WoW expansion. I'm sure they can make the effort if they really want to.

That's probably also why FFXIV has better looking cutscenes, it's more value to them putting in the effort whilst WoW is still experimenting with it. I'm sure if Blizzard sees the value of cutscenes in SL and decides to up the production value we'd see WoW in-game cinematics rapidly improving as well.

[Lady Atia]

I don't think it's not that they don't want to or don't want to put the effort into it, it's just that they don't see the point.

Your character is not a part in the story. Sure, the character is "the Mawwalker" or "the Champion", but at the end of the day, you are just a blank slate with no real connection or anything to the world, unlike in GW2 or Final Fantasy XIV.


You are a side character in WoW while you are a main character in the other two.

That's your own headcanon though - our characters *are* part of the stories and still considered leaders of our order hall to this day. Hell, we even appeared in the new Sylvanas novel.

[AngerFork]

To add to my previous post, 14's animations also flow easier situationally because the WoL can hypothetically be any class at any given time with the right training and crystal, so we kinda go with certain concessions.

This (big spoilers) would never fly in WoW being done by a gnome mage or something. But it's metal as hell being done by the player character here because the tone and expectations are completely different.

We're AFGNCAAPs co-starring to big name leaders and that's fine.

It would still work in WoW. If you look at the scene closely, you'll notice that you never actually witness moments of impact, just the animations. The camera angles & splashy effects hide it well. Because of that, you don't have to be as precise with the animations as you would otherwise, so the only real issue is making sure the animation doesn't clip & that your race is at the right height.

[huth]

I don't think it's not that they don't want to or don't want to put the effort into it, it's just that they don't see the point.

Your character is not a part in the story. Sure, the character is "the Mawwalker" or "the Champion", but at the end of the day, you are just a blank slate with no real connection or anything to the world, unlike in GW2 or Final Fantasy XIV.

Hard disagree. Your character is most definitely part of the story. That's why the whole "Mawwalker" "Champion" etc. are being done, so Blizzard has a way to refer to them without having to pin down their specific makeup.

[Khaza-R]

I mean, really, the only races in FFXIV who aren't just basic humanoids in FFXIV are Lalafell, Hrothgars and Roegadyns, maybe Au Ra.

The races aren't as extreme as they are in WoW.

To be fair that's just typical of Asian-marketed MMOs. "Monster races", old people, and overweight body types are unpopular with the demographic so naturally the diversity is lower than what you see in Western games.

[huth]

To be fair that's just typical of Asian-marketed MMOs. "Monster races", old people, and overweight body types are unpopular with the demographic so naturally the diversity is lower than what you see in Western games.

Eh, that's an oversimplification. Western games are often rather limited on the matter as well, especially if any customisation is offered. WoW is rather unique on this aspect.

[Zelk]

Wow isn't a story game, stop trying to make it a story game.

[Civciv]

Wow isn't a story game, stop trying to make it a story game.

excuse me what

[Soulwind]

Wow isn't a story game, stop trying to make it a story game.

You mean the MMO that was more story-based than all other MMOs of its time which spawned from one of the few story-based RTS of its time?

It's not a singleplayer RPG, sure, but it's always been story-driven, even if gameplay came first.

[ercarp]

Wow isn't a story game, stop trying to make it a story game.

Maybe not in the "glorified visual novel" sense that FFXIV is a story game, but lore is extremely important in WoW and everything falls apart and people lose interest in the game when things stop making sense. The main reason I didn't give a shit about SL was the terrible story-telling and terrible lore that shat on everything we love. If it no longer feels like Warcraft, what's the point?