Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

Blizzard is incapable if properly implementing the PC into the story, so we are both 'the champions of Azeroth' as well as absolute nobody's at the same time.

[draugril]

You mean the MMO that was more story-based than all other MMOs of its time which spawned from one of the few story-based RTS of its time?

It's not a singleplayer RPG, sure, but it's always been story-driven, even if gameplay came first.

A lot of people never had to talk to NPCs with the equivalent of /say to progress completely unmarked quests and it shows.

[Nymrohd]

The seventh force seeking to take control of Azeroth is... Forum Armchair Developers!

I mean, Ion WAS an armchair developer before becoming an actual dev. So he kind of did take control of Azeroth.

[huth]

A lot of people never had to talk to NPCs with the equivalent of /say to progress completely unmarked quests and it shows.

"Our interface design sucks, what should we do?" "Just call it immersion."

[Soulwind]

I mean, Ion WAS an armchair developer before becoming an actual dev. So he kind of did take control of Azeroth.

He's the Arbiter (Watcher) that replaced Zovaal.

It all makes sense.

[Khaza-R]

Eh, that's an oversimplification. Western games are often rather limited on the matter as well, especially if any customisation is offered. WoW is rather unique on this aspect.

Every statement on this forum is an oversimplification. I am not looking to write a thesis on the subject. Most people tend to gravitate towards attractive, idealized characters in MMOs, that's true of any region. Everquest, ESO, Wildstar, however? Western-based MMOs that certainly seem to embrace monster races more than their counterparts in Asia.

[Vakir]

It would still work in WoW. If you look at the scene closely, you'll notice that you never actually witness moments of impact, just the animations. The camera angles & splashy effects hide it well. Because of that, you don't have to be as precise with the animations as you would otherwise, so the only real issue is making sure the animation doesn't clip & that your race is at the right height.

I feel like you didn't read the post.

It's not about if it can be done technically. It's about whether it fits tonally with the setting and characters.

It's an amazing moment in EW. It's full blown nekketsu Shonen GAR accompanied by a medley with lyrics including early aughts buttrock. It encompasses some of the best and most gloriously silly aspects of FF14's story and the sheer confidence in itself. But it's not something that gels with Warcraft.

14 has more freedoms to depict combat this way. It's also a heavily dialogue driven story that edges toward being a "soft" Visual Novel. Warcraft doesn't do that.

[Khaza-R]

Wow isn't a story game, stop trying to make it a story game.

Regardless of the current quality, if it weren't a story based game then they wouldn't be selling novels and have multiple communities and YouTube channels devoted to their lore.

[Zelk]

Regardless of the current quality, if it weren't a story based game then they wouldn't be selling novels and have multiple communities and YouTube channels devoted to their lore.

They sell novels precisely because the story isn't told in the game

[draugril]

"Our interface design sucks, what should we do?" "Just call it immersion."

EQ hardly sucked, for its time. It's just that it was designed primarily as a world for players to interact with each other in, rather than to tell a developer-led story. WoW came along and revolutionized that by placing a focus on narrative that has only grown stronger with time. Hell, in modern WoW, the needs of the story inform the very geography of the world - the next plot point is almost always the next subzone, and almost never in a different zone entirely.

[Zelk]

You mean the MMO that was more story-based than all other MMOs of its time which spawned from one of the few story-based RTS of its time?

It's not a singleplayer RPG, sure, but it's always been story-driven, even if gameplay came first.

WoW has literally never been story-based. A paragraph of fluff explaining why you are collecting bear teeth is not story, it's fluff.

[The Stormbringer]

Say what you will about the Shadowlands. The music has been great at least. Chains of Domination was excellent imo.

A shame that this is in conjunction with them firing their in-house music team and shifting to contract work instead.

[Khaza-R]

They sell novels precisely because the story isn't told in the game

But it is told in game. It might be very messy, and even terrible at times but people wouldn't be buying books if they didn't read the lore in game and want more.

[Soulwind]

WoW has literally never been story-based. A paragraph of fluff explaining why you are collecting bear teeth is not story, it's fluff.

If you don't leave the starting zone, maybe. Even in Classic, there were quests telling you why you were going to Molten Core/Naxxramas. Hell the Onyxia questline is still considered one of the better ones in the game to this day. And back then they really didn't care. From WotLK onwards, they've paid a lot more attention to where they were heading and how they used their characters and locations.

The story isn't great (particularly as of late), but it's there, and it informs and justifies everything that the player does.

[draugril]

WoW has literally never been story-based. A paragraph of fluff explaining why you are collecting bear teeth is not story, it's fluff.

Fluff is story, particularly when text-based. Quests are story, no matter how trivial. WoW revolutionized the genre by focusing in on this stuff. It has always been story-based. Your opinions on whether or not the stories told are any good are immaterial to the greater point.

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If you literally only knew about EQ existing at the time sure I could see why one might think that but there were a bunch of MMOs that told a story better than WoW ever has or ever will even back then. Warcraft is not a good story. Its just not and the medium is already shit to tell a story in to begin with.

CoH was decent with its storytelling. A lot of the others had some quality world-building. But even then... WoW takes the cake for actual narrative storytelling. I'd argue that they held the mantle until SW:TOR, ESO and FFXIV rolled around.

[Soulwind]

Let's put it this way. If WoW wasn't a story driven MMO, there would be no point in guessing what the next expansion was going to be, after all, it's just a bunch of random mobs placed all over some new random landmass, right?

As silly and (unnecessarily/infuriatingly) unpredictable their plot hooks are, they are there, linking one arc to the next.

[Vakir]

WoW is on some level story driven, it's just a weak story that doesn't make it its main priority. To say it isn't story driven at all is absurd. Evidently a ton of care is put into the set dressing and influences that tell a story with the environment and cultures alone. The plot and characters suck, but they exist and carry much of the product engagement.

[Kiivar86]

The earlier talk of EQ and story does make me wonder, what, if any, storyline is there in EQ? I mean they're still pumping out expansions (28th last December) so there's gotta be something, surely?

[Polybius]

@Nymrohd

There’s definitely a group devoted to the Light with their separate agenda. WoW doesn’t delve too much into politics but does with character motivations. Turalyon will either be a traditionalist or splinter the Army of Light against the more extremist side.

[Super Dickmann]

It's an amazing moment in EW. It's full blown nekketsu Shonen GAR accompanied by a medley with lyrics including early aughts buttrock.

What is the academic difference between buttrock and cockrock? I need examples.