Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Detaching the Forsaken from Sylvanas has been an unmitigated disaster for both the race and the character, but replacing it with what's basically the antithesis of the race in Calia has been the stake through the heart.

I do maintain that Sylvanas wasn't irreplaceable—she had a pretty clear character from Warcraft III - Cataclysm before she showed the first of her inexplicable brain damage coming in with War Crimes and fully committed to her self-inflicted lobotomy during Legion, I agree, but I don't think she was wholly irreplaceable. I've mentioned Faranell ad nauseum already, but I really do think he's one of the best "traditional" Forsaken in the game—even if there aren't really many. He was high up in the echelons of the Forsaken and always struck me as more pragmatic than his cartoonishly evil counterparts in the RAS whilst still having that sinister edge that suited the Forsaken.

I can't really bring up many more, which I think is actually reflective of the issue—the Forsaken never got an opportunity to develop their Cataclysm identity much more. They had a good start with Sylvanas' Lordaeron Anschluss, but we never really saw many of the Cataclysm Forsaken in the spotlight after their questing experience, which gave them very little wiggle room to develop. By Legion, they were sort of thrust back into their old role (no matter how nonsensical it was) and were now just orbiting Sylvanas' character. Ultimately, I could see a salvaging of the Forsaken post-Sylvanas if there were a coup by hardliners in Sylvanas' military. There would be a De-Sylvanasification akin to Destalinization post-Stalin, but it would ultimately remain under people hardly better than Sylvanas whilst still giving them good reason to be kept around in the Horde without anyone batting an eye because they've given the illusion of reform.

I think one interesting plot that could've come up with Sylvanas in the spotlight is a July 20 Plot parody, with the most pragmatic Forsaken, realizing that Sylvanas has finally gone off the deep end, plot to kill her off. This isn't actually out of any sincere moral disgust for all but a few legitimate objectors, but is instead a desperate attempt to save their own decayed skins. Belmont and Faranell could've been among those who were involved, and it would ultimately culminate in the slaughter of most members save for a few, who manage to make enough of an impression on the Horde that they assume they are actually the harmless, well-meaning revolutionaries they present themselves as. To add to their appearance of legitimacy, they would try to prop up the Desolate Council's remaining members, but in actuality would only be using them as mopey puppet leaders while the inner circle puppeteers them from behind the scenes.

[Elflover99]

Yeah, I can't really imagine a san'layn-looking elf riding a slimesaber, lmao. It doesn't fit their look at all.

I think what he was going for was a connection to the Illidari (who also got a unique saber) as well as the fact that like Tirisfal it was also encrypted. But probably for a different reason (kitty mount happy surprise)

The snake-sound mounts are more likely for them, though what exactly that would be is up in the air. There isn't exactly one animal that fits both the Nelf and Belf rangers so they may be coming up with something new.

[Nymrohd]

I maintain that the only way to make Calia work is to fully commit to the implications of what her presence entails. The post-BTS Forsaken are a race of initiative-less wastes of space who's response to losing the cult figure that imposed nonsensical restrictions on them is to meekly follow her to the last then to rebound to another cult figure, just one who happens to be nice. Make them the Risen 2.0, using the Light even though it hurts them to repent their sins and becoming fanatical in their goal to tirelessly defend the living.

While I can see that working, I'd rather find a way to return to the original/Cata version of the Forsaken. Because while all the emotes were about Sylvanas, they still had an identity without her. What would help is if they could discover (through Shadowlands) a way to preserve themselves without subjecting others to the curse of undeath.

[Triceron]

The slimesaber is the weakest link in his theories IMO. The rest checks out. Tirisfal being encrypted is sus and links to the Rangers, which we have seen nothing of this entire expansion AFAIK.

I agree. Though the questline also seems to be Hunter specific, so it's hard to say what relevance there is for this entire zone 'revamp'.

I consider myself skeptically optimistic, leaning on skepticism until we see more.

[Elflover99]

I agree. Though the questline also seems to be Hunter specific, so it's hard to say what relevance there is for this entire zone 'revamp'.

I consider myself skeptically optimistic, leaning on skepticism until we see more.

I think the Dark Ranger questline is actually unrelated to any of the race stuff. AFAIK the zone questline is encrypted, I believe Marlamin said so, but the Dark Ranger questline with the Scarlets has been openly visible for a while.

Also to address your hunter thing, there are two different quest openers, and one has the guy acknowledge you as a hunter. I think it's just a special flavor thing.

[Prenderghast]

Yeah, I can't really imagine a san'layn-looking elf riding a slimesaber, lmao. It doesn't fit their look at all.

Agreed, and I don't think the slimesaber will end up having any relation to Darkfallen if they do both get implemented.

That being said, I do think that the slimesaber could be the Darkfallen mount if they reframed what the slimesaber's origin is: Instead of a Maldraxxian monstrosity from the House of Plagues, maybe it was cooked up by Forsaken apothecaries using the toxic sludge of the Undercity sewers, and presented as a gift to the Forsaken's new Darkfallen allies. That cuts its ties to the Shadowlands entirely, and relates it back to the Forsaken. No, I don't think that would happen, and I think other mounts fit the San'layn/Dark Ranger aesthetic FAR better, but I don't think it's impossible either.

[Elflover99]

I think if this was just a hunter customization, there wouldn't be a need to readjust the lore of Darkfallen and also introduce the Nelves in the first place. A class skin for two races only would be a bit awkward, just as awkward as white paladin spells for ONE paladin class (Night Elf, in the future).

- - - Updated - - -

Looking back at that questline though I did find something interesting...

Thank the abyss you're here, fellow hunter! I'm concerned about Dark Ranger Velonara, who frequents the Trueshot Lodge. Velonara is a good friend, and I fear she is in peril. She's been training an apprentice dark ranger, a lad named Prelus. Newly raised, she said. At any rate, Prelus ran off after receiving a letter from his brother, and now Velonara has gone to Tirisfal Glades to find him. I have a bad feeling about all this. Would you be willing to check on her safety?

Newly raised??

[Super Dickmann]

I think one interesting plot that could've come up with Sylvanas in the spotlight is a July 20 Plot parody, with the most pragmatic Forsaken, realizing that Sylvanas has finally gone off the deep end, plot to kill her off. This isn't actually out of any sincere moral disgust for all but a few legitimate objectors, but is instead a desperate attempt to save their own decayed skins. Belmont and Faranell could've been among those who were involved, and it would ultimately culminate in the slaughter of most members save for a few, who manage to make enough of an impression on the Horde that they assume they are actually the harmless, well-meaning revolutionaries they present themselves as. To add to their appearance of legitimacy, they would try to prop up the Desolate Council's remaining members, but in actuality would only be using them as mopey puppet leaders while the inner circle puppeteers them from behind the scenes.

I disagree regarding Sylvanas's importance, since the connection between her and the Forsaken and her riding the tiger was a big part of both them and the character and served to their benefit. On her end it was regarding things like Lordaeronian nationalism and reclaiming lost territories as well as setting up a positive self-image for them after Cataclysm, needing to show strength at all times lest she be turned against, with both Putress and Godfrey's turns against her owing to her being too soft and the Forsaken at all times showing plenty of amorality without her presence. When she thinks of inducting her sister, she knows she has to kill and raise her first, because otherwise the Forsaken would never tolerate her and rise up. On their end it was the cult of personality as an in-story element rather than an out of story fact like it is with Anduin or pre-Wrath Thrall, elevating their leader to semi-divinity and making her the face of the race at large. Without Sylvanas, the Forsaken lose their marquee character, their founder and the microcosm of their story leaving them without an origin and without core pillars of their society. Without the Forsaken, Sylvanas is a mopey screentime-munching bitch not beholden to any requirements by those around her and adrift without a clear focus, see BFA and SL.

If you were to remove Sylvanas though, your suggestion and what @Nymrohd suggests are the gist of it. Rather than having the Forsaken be saved passively after all their agency is stripped away by retcons, the removal of Sylvanas would be the culmination of the actions she takes much like BFA. Her overfocus on her salvation from hell and/or work with the Bald Man, including starting a war with Teldrassil that'd see Lordaeron fall and the Forsaken see the heart of the national identity they'd built post-Cataclysm collapse would then be followed up with the deployment of Lordaeronian forces at Darkshore, a front where they have zero stake in. They'd see that their leader is not only not advancing their interests, but is actively sacrificing them either for her own benefit or to pander to the Horde at large and they'd move against her out of pragmatism. Whether this military junta, represented by the RAS, Deathstalkers and Executors have Calia as their face to be able to sue for peace or a Desolate Council, the main result of it would be the ditching of the Cult of Personality and the non-Lordaeronian elements of society. They'd keep their positive Cataclysm self-image and their transhumanist view of death, but move rapidly towards collective leadership rather than risking a cult of personality that could lead them astray towards self-destruction again and prevent any person from holding as much power as Sylvanas did.

[Padwarle]

PTR is down, so new build likely.

[Elflover99]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/storyline/me...rk-rangers-884

I stand corrected. It IS hunter only, but he has flavor text if you are the Huntmaster (aka you did the Order Hall in legion).

Here's the rub: if this is a dark ranger customization, you telling me every race can use it? Because every race can be a hunter.

[Revamp Man]

Definitely feels pretty phoned in this year.

Phoned in from where they fired the normal ones in Versailles

[Elflover99]

PTR is down, so new build likely.

I'm expecting the Velf heritage weapons to be included this time. Maybe some more Heritage quest additions for a regular race.

Tauren maybe?

[Throren]

I doubt its something we'd ever get but I'd love a proper Bronzebeard hammer and axe combo heritage weapon to go with the armor to 'complete' the Mountain King fantasy

[Elflover99]

I doubt its something we'd ever get but I'd love a proper Bronzebeard hammer and axe combo heritage weapon to go with the armor to 'complete' the Mountain King fantasy

I would hope that a revamp would add racial weapons to different zones. Exiles Reach already adds some good "Human and Orc" weapons and we see that they are adding Lordaeron and Scarlet shields, so we might see a return to simple looking items.

[Kiivar86]

Kinda figured the slimesaber may just be some poor cat/giant feline in Lordaeron that got caught up in the goo explosion of Undercity.

[Throren]

I would hope that a revamp would add racial weapons to different zones. Exiles Reach already adds some good "Human and Orc" weapons and we see that they are adding Lordaeron and Scarlet shields, so we might see a return to simple looking items.

Ya Im still bummed we never got the 2 handed hammers from Exile's reach, they looked very dwarf, the side of the hammer heads were covered in like dwarf knotwork and stuff.

[Hitei]

PTR is down, so new build likely.

Can a new build be trusted today?

[Lazarel]

found on a 4chan thread

[Throren]

I think a new build tonight is all but confirmed

https://twitter.com/Zorbrix/status/1509967025111650308

[Elflover99]

found on a 4chan thread

I think that logo was proven fake.