1. #35261
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post

    There is no reason to put stock into the name being correct.
    red shirt guy says it correct therefore it must be

    https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...C9gamQ3_YpAAAA

  2. #35262
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Also wouldn't Druid make more sense as a Dragonsworn class skin than Shamans?

    Nightmare Druid does sound wicked cool but Shaman outside of Earth element theme just doesn't fit Dragonsworn.

    Druid's have the arcane aspect(Blue), resto(Green/Red), and could transform into Dragonkin for their shapeshifting abilities.

    Edit - after typing this out I've given thought to Dragonsworn potentially looking cool as Resto (Red/Green), Elemental (Combo of Bronze/Blue) and Enhance (Black) but Shaman just doesn't scream Dragon esque to me.
    Not really, dragons are descended from proto-dragons which are descended from elementals: there is your link to Shamans.

  3. #35263
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Chronomancer logically would fit more as a fourth spec for Mages.

    Tinker is very easily a three spec class.

    Dragonknight could very easily have four.

    Bard/Minstrel could comfortably have at least two. Three with some creativity.

    I just don't buy the microclass aspect. Rest of the leak is plausible and seems legit, though.
    In D&D at least there are so many versions of bard. There are skalds who are pretty much melee bards, you can have them heavily focused on charming people and using magic related to songs, there are jesters who are pretty much about being disruptive in combat, there are evangelists who are divine bards, then there are all sort of racial specifics (from elven minstrels and spellsingers to halfling whistlers and dwarven chanters).

    Honestly I'd see a bard as a fourth spec for rogue than a true class. The bardic archetype doesn't really translate into an MMO as well. A lot of it is about charming and disruptive gameplay which would be OP in PvP and not really a core gameplay for PvE. The game does not really use support classes well; the only true support we ever had was shadow priest in TBC and to a lesser extend enhancement shaman (the latter being valid even now). But if you make them a spec in rogue you don't have to spread the concept thin.

  4. #35264
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonflighters View Post
    Also want to point out: every SINGLE leak has guessed that Dragonflights are going to be the next covenants, with us picking one and earning rewards. It's even a popular theory on social media etc.

    EXCEPT THIS ONE. And it also guessed the name correctly.

    This checks out with how the Dragonflights currently don't have very different aesthetics and Alex doesn't look that much different from her old design on the poster. So if the dragonflights aren't going to look that much different with rebooted designs, maybe we aren't getting Dragonflight covenants after all.
    I'd go more by what Blizzard has done historically than a leak in any case, because Blizzard hasn't deviated from it's design patterns much. They just shift them around. It's completely possible covenants will be changed, but I personally don't think they will. I think they will change the name, maybe dragon sworn or dragon oath, and tweak the system so that it doesn't resemble anima grind for cosmetics, gear, ect. It's probably important to remember that covenants were the idea Blizz had for single player content along an expansion, it's their system on hooking the average player, not a committed raider. So, in one way or another I think we get a similar system, but with a facelift so it doesn't resemble it, but the underlining is the same.

  5. #35265
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That's not necessarily a point in favour. Guessing the name correctly isn't much of an achievement, either. Dragonflight is an established term.
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    It's been heavily speculated this expansion is going to be Dragon related. There's been enough hints before Shadowlands even, to the point I was certain 9.0 was going to be Dragon Isles. Looking at all the various text leaks, there is a vast majority of dragon-related names thrown out, and this one is no different. With the themes of dragon being almost certain and everyone guessing the vague dragon related names they could, it it no surprise someone could have easily guessed the correct one.

    There is no reason to put stock into the name being correct.

    My point is not the name, but the connection between the name and the leak.

    When everyone and their mother predicts the Dragonflights being a system... why leave it out?! If this leak is correct the new covenants are the ORDER HALLS, not the Dragonflights, which nobody has predicted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by m4Zzo928 View Post
    I'd go more by what Blizzard has done historically than a leak in any case, because Blizzard hasn't deviated from it's design patterns much. They just shift them around. It's completely possible covenants will be changed, but I personally don't think they will. I think they will change the name, maybe dragon sworn or dragon oath, and tweak the system so that it doesn't resemble anima grind for cosmetics, gear, ect. It's probably important to remember that covenants were the idea Blizz had for single player content along an expansion, it's their system on hooking the average player, not a committed raider. So, in one way or another I think we get a similar system, but with a facelift so it doesn't resemble it, but the underlining is the same.
    Right, and in this case the covenants would be the Order Halls. My point is that I doubt a fake leaker would go "hmmmm dragonflight is the expansion but you dont join a dragonflight" because they would get laughed at.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    I don't want a bunch of other classes running around my mage class hall. So I hope that part at least is made-up.
    It makes sense though to give rewards based on WoW organizations like the Silver Hand, Kirin Tor, etc. And we don't actually know if the order halls themselves are going to be the same: note that the Uncrowned are based in Undermine in the leak, not Dalaran.

    It is way more fanservicey and unique aesthetically to have Rogue themed rewards, Paladin themed rewards etc than YELLOW DRAGON, BLUE DRAGON, etc.

  6. #35266
    Quote Originally Posted by m4Zzo928 View Post
    Something time related.
    The Infinites go back in time to attack Dalaran during Wrath?
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  7. #35267
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    Now regarding the Dragonflight leak, and as excited as I am for the bard class... the fact that it's called minstrel instead of bard ticked me off. I wanted to see if there was any technical difference between them, and I stumbled unto something rather displeasing, not because minstrel is a bad word per se, it's actually fitting the medieval genre perfectly, but because of its secondhand connotation in the US:

    minstrel
    /ˈmɪnstr(ə)l/

    noun
    1.a medieval singer or musician, especially one who sang or recited lyric or heroic poetry to a musical accompaniment for the nobility.
    "they listened to the minstrels singing songs of knightly prowess"
    2.
    a member of a band of entertainers, typically white actors with blackened faces, who performed in a type of stage entertainment prevalent in the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries, featuring songs, dances, and formulaic comic routines based on stereotyped depictions of black Americans.
    "the exaggerated dialect of blackface minstrels"


    I had no knowledge of the second thing existing, being European, and I do not know if this is well known amongst the contemporary American population? But I imagine given recent issues at Blizzard, they might avoid anything that could be used against them, including a word vaguely reminiscent of blackface?

    It might be completely far-fetched, and I may be trying too hard to anticipate Blizzard's newfound PC stance, but to me that's one point against the Dragonflight MMO-C leak (although I believe in both the art and the website thing).
    They do have some basis in WarCraft

    First there's the rogue card from HS in the Kobolds & Catacombs expansion



    Then there's the NPC in Maldraxxus - Winslow Swan <Death Minstrel>

    As for the racist connotation. I live in the US and have never heard of that. Nor do I think most people here associate the word Minstrel with people performing blackface.

  8. #35268
    Right, and in this case the covenants would be the Order Halls. My point is that I doubt a fake leaker would go "hmmmm dragonflight is the expansion but you dont join a dragonflight" because they would get laughed at.
    Oh, you're thinking their the order halls? Idk, that's a bit of a sidestep. It happened once, so it could happen again I suppose. I don't think that'll be it though.

  9. #35269
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Chronomancer logically would fit more as a fourth spec for Mages.

    Tinker is very easily a three spec class.

    Dragonknight could very easily have four.

    Bard/Minstrel could comfortably have at least two. Three with some creativity.

    I just don't buy the microclass aspect. Rest of the leak is plausible and seems legit, though.
    Completley agree.

    If we where to see a tinker class and/or dragonknight it really wouldnt be as just 1 spec.

  10. #35270
    Quote Originally Posted by Bindanda View Post
    red shirt guy says it correct therefore it must be

    https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...C9gamQ3_YpAAAA


    The name Dragonflight is the expansion.

    There is no reason to put stock in a text leak guessing the correct name when every "leak" has been guessing a dragon adjacent name.

    Reading comprehension.

  11. #35271
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    In D&D at least there are so many versions of bard. There are skalds who are pretty much melee bards, you can have them heavily focused on charming people and using magic related to songs, there are jesters who are pretty much about being disruptive in combat, there are evangelists who are divine bards, then there are all sort of racial specifics (from elven minstrels and spellsingers to halfling whistlers and dwarven chanters).

    Honestly I'd see a bard as a fourth spec for rogue than a true class. The bardic archetype doesn't really translate into an MMO as well. A lot of it is about charming and disruptive gameplay which would be OP in PvP and not really a core gameplay for PvE. The game does not really use support classes well; the only true support we ever had was shadow priest in TBC and to a lesser extend enhancement shaman (the latter being valid even now). But if you make them a spec in rogue you don't have to spread the concept thin.
    Bards have been done several times in MMO's. The only thing people agree upon with the bard is buffing allies with a music instrument. The oddities of D&D when it comes to bard arent really that relevant here.

  12. #35272
    Quote Originally Posted by m4Zzo928 View Post
    Oh, you're thinking their the order halls? Idk, that's a bit of a sidestep. It happened once, so it could happen again I suppose. I don't think that'll be it though.
    The Dragonflight text leak specifially says the covenants are several Legion Order Halls: Valajar, Silver Hand, Uncrowned, Black Harvest, Kirin Tor.

    I also want to note the possibility that these are connected to the flights, as Uncrowned have worked with Wrathion (and Kezan is famously connected to Deathwing) and the Kirin Tor are notably connected to the Blues. The others are a toss up and its a surprise the Dreamgrove isn't included... but maybe this is why a Green drake is part of the deluxe edition? Because they don't get a covenant.

  13. #35273
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    The Infinites go back in time to attack Dalaran during Wrath?
    Could be. I mean the idea is less outrageous then people guessing we'd fight a jailor in the afterlife during BFA. Maybe the infinites don't have a huge place in the expansion, but maybe they have places they have a presence. Makes sense since we basically know now it's a dragon related expansion.

  14. #35274
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonflighters View Post
    My point is not the name, but the connection between the name and the leak.

    When everyone and their mother predicts the Dragonflights being a system... why leave it out?! If this leak is correct the new covenants are the ORDER HALLS, not the Dragonflights, which nobody has predicted.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Right, and in this case the covenants would be the Order Halls. My point is that I doubt a fake leaker would go "hmmmm dragonflight is the expansion but you dont join a dragonflight" because they would get laughed at.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It makes sense though to give rewards based on WoW organizations like the Silver Hand, Kirin Tor, etc. And we don't actually know if the order halls themselves are going to be the same: note that the Uncrowned are based in Undermine in the leak, not Dalaran.

    It is way more fanservicey and unique aesthetically to have Rogue themed rewards, Paladin themed rewards etc than YELLOW DRAGON, BLUE DRAGON, etc.
    Everyone mentioning the Dragonflights as Covenants 2.0 is in itself a good reason for a leaker to claim it won't be a thing.

    Every leak lives and dies on playing on preconceived notions of what the reader expects. And the more you can make the player go "that makes sense", the easier it is to convince them it's real.

    In this case the sheer amount if covenant 2.0 leaks have convinced you that any leak who doesn't to for the same is automatically true.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #35275
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonflighters View Post
    The Dragonflight text leak specifially says the covenants are several Legion Order Halls: Valajar, Silver Hand, Uncrowned, Black Harvest, Kirin Tor.

    I also want to note the possibility that these are connected to the flights, as Uncrowned have worked with Wrathion (and Kezan is famously connected to Deathwing) and the Kirin Tor are notably connected to the Blues. The others are a toss up and its a surprise the Dreamgrove isn't included... but maybe this is why a Green drake is part of the deluxe edition? Because they don't get a covenant.
    The Valarjar are connected to Odyn who was notably against empowering the Aspects to begin with.

  16. #35276
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Completley agree.

    If we where to see a tinker class and/or dragonknight it really wouldnt be as just 1 spec.
    I think specifically Dragonknight could be 1 spec for a very simple reason: It's such a hard spec to divide amongst the flights into 3 and everyone has a different interpretation of it, by making it 1 spec you could include little bits of every single dragonflight into the abilities.

  17. #35277
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Everyone mentioning the Dragonflights as Covenants 2.0 is in itself a good reason for a leaker to claim it won't be a thing.

    Every leak lives and dies on playing on preconceived notions of what the reader expects. And the more you can make the player go "that makes sense", the easier it is to convince them it's real.

    In this case the sheer amount if covenant 2.0 leaks have convinced you that any leak who doesn't to for the same is automatically true.
    And in this case in particular... the "leaker" deliberately tried to play to the confirmation bias of almost everyone who wants a new class. He hit up all the main requests, then finagled with it to make it believably feasible.

    I would love for this one to be real, but I just don't see it. Too make easy guesses.

  18. #35278
    Btw before I'm not saying that datamined clothing WASN'T Alexstraza's updated pieces, I'm just saying there's nothing concrete linking it to her, we're just doing it because it fits with the artwork + name.

    It could just be blood elf thong removal or something weird. It's basically just a weaker item in the context of everything else we have and there are multiple ways to look at it. I agree it doe look more 'pink' than blood elf red though - so leaning towards Alex cover up.

  19. #35279
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    They do have some basis in WarCraft

    First there's the rogue card from HS in the Kobolds & Catacombs expansion



    Then there's the NPC in Maldraxxus - Winslow Swan <Death Minstrel>

    As for the racist connotation. I live in the US and have never heard of that. Nor do I think most people here associate the word Minstrel with people performing blackface.
    Thanks for the confirmation, it's much appreciated!

  20. #35280
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonflighters View Post
    The Dragonflight text leak specifially says the covenants are several Legion Order Halls: Valajar, Silver Hand, Uncrowned, Black Harvest, Kirin Tor.

    I also want to note the possibility that these are connected to the flights, as Uncrowned have worked with Wrathion (and Kezan is famously connected to Deathwing) and the Kirin Tor are notably connected to the Blues. The others are a toss up and its a surprise the Dreamgrove isn't included... but maybe this is why a Green drake is part of the deluxe edition? Because they don't get a covenant.
    Yea, I don't think that leak is 100% correct, but if it is I'm fine with that.

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